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Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 12:37:43 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Here is something I preach about often, but I am not always very good at doing, giving others forgiveness. I recently gave forgiveness to someone that had deeply hurt me not too long ago. I was able to because I have moved on with my life. I have always stated I wished him well, but I finally mean it with every cell in my body.. it is a cleansing thing. It really makes that old saying come to life for me "We forgive for ourselves, not for the one that trangressed against us".

Forgiveness is a gift we not only give to others, but one we give to ourselves... I just wonder how others feel about this concept.... I fully expect many may not agree with my sentiments, I am still very interested to hear what others think.

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 12:45:23 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Forgiveness is a gift we not only give to others, but one we give to ourselves... I just wonder how others feel about this concept.... I fully expect many may not agree with my sentiments, I am still very interested to hear what others think.


I used to have trouble with the concept of forgivness when I had been wronged until I read this:

"Forgivness is giving up all hope of a better Past"

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 12:48:46 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Forgiveness is a gift we not only give to others, but one we give to ourselves... I just wonder how others feel about this concept.... I fully expect many may not agree with my sentiments, I am still very interested to hear what others think.


I used to have trouble with the concept of forgivness when I had been wronged until I read this:

"Forgivness is giving up all hope of a better Past"


Possibly replaced with renewed hope for the future?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 12:50:06 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am fine with forgiveness. I feel that harbouring a grudge or anger just poisons me and the world around me. The only thing that frustrates me is that all to often people mistake being forgiven for the idea of everything is find and back the way it was before. If someone has betrayed me, continues to behave in a manner that I cannot tollerate, and I have no deep emotional ties left, I do not want them in my life. I have family members that fit that category. Others see it as harbouring a grudge, they just do not understand that I simply feel nothing.

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 1:09:23 PM   
Taylore


Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		This slave disagrees with the idea that forgiveness is a gift we give others. Personally, if someone else has wronged me, it is because I allowed them to do so. In recognizing that, the only person that I need to forgive, is myself. Of course, this is just my own perspective on it; as I know that not many would agree with me.

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 1:12:13 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
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quote:

Forgiveness is a gift we not only give to others, but one we give to ourselves... I just wonder how others feel about this concept.... 


Most definitely. Forgiveness is one the key elements that stops us from sabotaging our future relationships by self-projecting the woes from previous ones. It is a gift to ourselves.



 - R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 7/14/2006 1:13:23 PM >

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 1:22:22 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Taylore

This slave disagrees with the idea that forgiveness is a gift we give others. Personally, if someone else has wronged me, it is because I allowed them to do so. In recognizing that, the only person that I need to forgive, is myself. Of course, this is just my own perspective on it; as I know that not many would agree with me.


Someone sneaks up on you in a parking lot, hits you over the head and steals your purse and car; that means you let them and need to forgive yourself?

Wow. Talk about blaming the victim.

Not to mention more troubling sorts of things like someone murdering one of your loved ones three states away.



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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 1:27:32 PM   
Taylore


Posts: 121
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Someone sneaks up on you in a parking lot, hits you over the head and steals your purse and car; that means you let them and need to forgive yourself?

Wow. Talk about blaming the victim.

Not to mention more troubling sorts of things like someone murdering one of your loved ones three states away.

This slave finds your attitude confusing, especially since you obviously do not know me at all. However, I will dismiss your sarcasm as being that of ignorance.
 
Enjoy the rest of your evening.

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Taylore

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 1:46:38 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Forgiveness is an extra...

I've long held that we need to give ourselves permission to not be invested in anger, revenge, jealousy, fear, or any of the naturally occuring emotional things that come unbidden into our minds and hearts.

Freeing yourself up to let it go gives you a lot of options, forgiveness is but one of them.
 
 

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 2:15:20 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Taylore

quote:

Someone sneaks up on you in a parking lot, hits you over the head and steals your purse and car; that means you let them and need to forgive yourself?

Wow. Talk about blaming the victim.

Not to mention more troubling sorts of things like someone murdering one of your loved ones three states away.

This slave finds your attitude confusing, especially since you obviously do not know me at all. However, I will dismiss your sarcasm as being that of ignorance.
 
Enjoy the rest of your evening.


Well yes, you do seem to be confused about my attitude, which was sincere.

There wasn't a note of sarcasm in my question, Taylore. You proposed a view of forgiveness which seemed to me not to account for some typical sorts of cases where the issue of forgiveness comes into play in people's lives. I cited acouple of examples in the hope that you would respond in a similar spirit.

I am obviously ignorant of all knowledge about your theory beyond what little appeared in your first post. My question was an attempt to question the usefulness oif your theory in such a way that you could choose to explain how your view really does work in those sorts of cases, or maybe acknowledge that there was something you had overlooked if that turned out to be the case.

That is one of the ways public discourse proceeds.

Curt dismissiveness is one of the ways it stalls instead of proceeding.

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 2:16:42 PM   
SavageFaerie


Posts: 4377
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: NYC
Status: offline 		julaoceania,

Through life I have had quite a few that wronged me. Not so long ago someone from my past came to me after 26 years and apologized for a huge wrong. It felt damn good to finally hear it. It helped me finally lay to rest all the past resentment I had buried over a lifetime.

I have come to the realization that holding in resentment, grudges and hate for others only serves to lessen the capacity of my heart.  By forgiving those that have wronged me, the heart in me has grown.

All the wrongs in my life are to me life lessons and makes me the person I am today.

Lord know that if I resented everyone that didn't do quite right by me...I would have zero friends or family.

Thats my opinion anyway.....

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 2:39:32 PM   
sleazybutterfly


Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		I have come to the conclusion that not forgiving..didn't really hurt anyone but me. 
 
That is why one by one.. I have let things go..no..I haven't forgotten them, but when they come to mind..there isn't anger there..or resentment...just the experience.  If we hold onto it, it builds up ..and before you know it..it isn't something that happened you can move on from, it becomes something that affects your life now..and the future.
 
You can't change the past.... why bring it into a future that is brand new...and full of possibilities?
 
~Andrea
 

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 2:49:24 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		A few years ago i let another woman into my life.  I opened up to her even though i swore i would never let another female become a friend like that, to share, to laugh, to just have fun.  It was all a betrayal.  I will never again have a relationship with a woman like that, and i am more than ok with it that way.
It took me a long time to come to terms with many things.....i have forgiven her, but i will never forget.

~smilezz~

< Message edited by smilezz -- 7/14/2006 2:50:05 PM >

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 2:49:46 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Taylore

This slave disagrees with the idea that forgiveness is a gift we give others. Personally, if someone else has wronged me, it is because I allowed them to do so. In recognizing that, the only person that I need to forgive, is myself. Of course, this is just my own perspective on it; as I know that not many would agree with me.


Some of the hardest things in the world to forgive are the things that were done to us when we had absolutely no power to defend ourselves.. note survivors of incest and child abuse. It is also hard to forgive what has been done to those we love, even though it may not have been done to us, it hurts us indirectly, again we have no power to stop these things.

To forgive someone that has molested you, beaten you, or killed a loved one has to be the most powerful sort of forgiveness there is, and not one I have ever had to give to anyone... It is a gift too. I think of someone like Carla Fay Tucker, and the fact that the brother of one of her victims not only forgave her, but tried to stop her from being executed... to her his forgiveness was a great gift.

I guess I could go on and be sappy, but the point is that we do not always contribute to our own victimization. It is not always our fault.  It IS easier if we had a part in it to forgive someone, but if we had no part in it we still have to let it go to be clean again. Because you were a victim at a particular time does not mean you have to stay one, and as for myself, I always tried to believe I had much more power than I really do, it made the world a less scary place for me.. but that is how I am, and many other people view it differently.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 2:51:59 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SavageFaerie

julaoceania,

Through life I have had quite a few that wronged me. Not so long ago someone from my past came to me after 26 years and apologized for a huge wrong. It felt damn good to finally hear it. It helped me finally lay to rest all the past resentment I had buried over a lifetime.

I have come to the realization that holding in resentment, grudges and hate for others only serves to lessen the capacity of my heart.  By forgiving those that have wronged me, the heart in me has grown.

All the wrongs in my life are to me life lessons and makes me the person I am today.

Lord know that if I resented everyone that didn't do quite right by me...I would have zero friends or family.

Thats my opinion anyway.....


That is simply beautiful...thanks for sharing!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SavageFaerie)
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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 3:08:31 PM   
SavageFaerie


Posts: 4377
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: NYC
Status: offline 		Thank you for bringing this subject up.

I would also like to interject that sometimes you need to sit back and forgive yourself. Self hate is equally destructive.

_____________________________

Disclaimer:If its the wrong word or misspelled I blame on my fingers and brains refusing to interact.

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 3:15:00 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not very good at forgiveness, or forgetting, for that matter.  Usually, if someone does me a great wrong, which for me usually involves a lie, my life goes on without that person.  Bam, done, outta here.  No forgiveness, no forgetting, just getting on with things.  There are rare exceptions.  My family, of course, is always an exception. 

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Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 3:27:12 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		 I have the opposite problem of most... I cant hold a grudge and even have trouble getting mad I almost always forgive emediately and because of the I often get walked all over

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 3:58:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

 I have the opposite problem of most... I cant hold a grudge and even have trouble getting mad I almost always forgive emediately and because of the I often get walked all over

Remember, just because you forgive someone does not mean you have to put yourself in the position to be "shit on"again... there is a difference between forgiving and completely forgetting.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Forgiveness - 7/14/2006 4:13:57 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Forgiveness like mercy is a gift you give to either yourself or another. Like it says in an old saying: "I can forgive but I will not forget." I may even be mercifull too if the mood takes me.

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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