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Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:17:49 AM   
slvemike4u


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Why would Americans be traveling to Cuba for medical care.
Is it possible that we don't have the finest,affordable health care in this hemisphere ?
Full story here...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/world/americas/americans-may-see-appeal-of-medical-tourism-in-cuba.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:23:53 AM   
SinFix


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I think it has more to do with getting cheaper "cosmetic" or gender type procedures than anything else..

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:31:53 AM   
slvemike4u


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No mention of cosmetic or gender type procedures in the article.....and I'm not so sure that this would be an area of which Cuban facilities are set up to deal with.
The article does mention how Castro and the revolution made medical care a priority upon assuming power in '59....Cuba has exported medical expertise for years to third world countries.
Could it be that they got this one issue right ?
I mean think about it,with the embargo and all Cuba has remained a poor country,yet they have been exporting Doctors abroad for decades.They do seem to have the pipeline of new,well trained doctors flowing nicely .

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:33:12 AM   
SinFix


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There was no mention of any "type" of medical care in that article.. We can only postulate, speculate and assume what the fuck they are even trying to convey to us..

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:37:22 AM   
slvemike4u


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True.....which is strange in itself.Other than the term "medical tourism" there is no indication of what sorts of patients would be flocking to Havana for these treatments.
Very unlike the Times,it's like half a story,dammit.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:38:55 AM   
SinFix


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I agree, I am all for expanding medical care into other avenues than the ones currently available, but damn it man I need info to make decisions not vague ponderings of the news

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:40:15 AM   
mnottertail


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Oh, like procedures not allowed here and a chemotherapy run would probably be less out of pocket outright than copay in american insurance.

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:51:57 AM   
slvemike4u


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Well if that's true,isn't that a problem ?
Aren't we the "exceptional" country ,the one indispensable nation.
How did Cuba,struggling under the weight of our embargo develop a medical infrastructure that could attract actual Americans to their hospitals ?

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:56:05 AM   
mnottertail


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Meyer Lansky?

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:58:26 AM   
slvemike4u


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I think he's dead

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 11:59:42 AM   
SinFix


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I think what you are missing is that Cuba may not be "better" than the U.S. in the procedure or treatment but the only thing available to some..

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 12:00:46 PM   
slvemike4u


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Available to some....because they are priced out of the American medical market ?
Shouldn't we address that ?

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 2:43:06 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
No mention of cosmetic or gender type procedures in the article.....and I'm not so sure that this would be an area of which Cuban facilities are set up to deal with.
The article does mention how Castro and the revolution made medical care a priority upon assuming power in '59....Cuba has exported medical expertise for years to third world countries.
Could it be that they got this one issue right ?
I mean think about it,with the embargo and all Cuba has remained a poor country,yet they have been exporting Doctors abroad for decades.They do seem to have the pipeline of new,well trained doctors flowing nicely .


Maybe you need to read your articles better, Mike.

    quote:

    Cuba made health care a priority after its 1959 revolution, and it has earned a reputation for providing good, mostly free care to its people. Thousands of Cuban doctors also work abroad, in Venezuela, Brazil and other developing countries, in an exchange that provides the government of President Raúl Castro with hard currency or goods, such as oil, in return.

    Mr. Edelheit said Cuban health care would be likely to appeal to some Americans because the island is so close, about an hour’s flight from Miami to Havana.

    But for now, the most popular destinations for Americans who travel abroad for health care are Canada, the United Kingdom, Israel, Singapore and Costa Rica, according to a study by the Medical Tourism Association. It found that some of the most common procedures included spinal, weight-loss and cosmetic surgery, and cancer treatment.


While Cuban health care is generally considered at least good, or excellent, people aren't going to be going there specifically for the quality of care.

    quote:

    David McBain, 47, a Toronto landscaper who fractured his spine in a car accident, went to Cuba three times last year for extensive physical therapy.

    “The physiotherapists and the doctors are extremely knowledgeable and well trained in Cuba, and you just can’t beat the price,” Mr. McBain said. “The price is a fraction of what it would be in Canada or the U.S. for a therapist.”

    Mr. McBain, who is partly paralyzed and uses a wheelchair, said he was treated for several weeks during each visit at a Havana facility. He said the treatment in Cuba cost about $200 a day, which includes about six hours of physical therapy daily, a comfortable room and board. Canada’s national health system does not provide for the type of therapy he needs, he said, and a private neurological physical therapist would charge about $93 an hour.


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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 2:46:53 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Available to some....because they are priced out of the American medical market ?
Shouldn't we address that ?


Of course, we should! Too bad no one in Washington DC has any idea how to actually lower the costs of care. The GOP's fall back is tort reform, which is usually reported as only increasing costs 2%. That's almost not even a fucking dent! The Democrat's have proven (through Obamacare) that they don't know how to lower the costs of procedures and services either.

It's a damn shame. It truly is.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 2:51:59 PM   
slvemike4u


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Ever consider single payer....



Not for nothing DS,but I read my article fine,nothing in what you quoted answered the questions SinFix and I were asking...it's not contained in the article

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 4:31:05 PM   
SinFix


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While I would love to see a single answer to the best route for all those, I just don't see that happening so it will become a lesser of two evil type situations that just will not truly end this country's health care issues... If this country would get off of its two party system that has blinders on by both of them, then we might be able to make more informed decisions here, but as just this forum has proven that will never happen with such close minded laser focused on what they see as right that we will continue to chase our tail..

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 5:11:11 PM   
MercTech


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Well, if you look at health care with a sideways eye you can say the AMA is the largest unregulated monopoly in known history. You can't get care in the U.S. unless it is in an AMA sanctioned facility and there is no legal cap on charges for a given service and no right to know the cost of a service or procedure ahead of time.

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 5:57:55 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Well, if you look at health care with a sideways eye you can say the AMA is the largest unregulated monopoly in known history. You can't get care in the U.S. unless it is in an AMA sanctioned facility and there is no legal cap on charges for a given service and no right to know the cost of a service or procedure ahead of time.

even if you do know the cost, you can still be a victim of "drive-by doctoring"..

"After Surgery, Surprise $117,000 Medical Bill From Doctor He Didn’t Know"
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/us/drive-by-doctoring-surprise-medical-bills.html?_r=0

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 6:37:31 PM   
epiphiny43


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A well done study of outcomes indicates the greatly maligned NHS of Great Britain has produced better health profiles in all demographics than the US (NOT good, just better) at about 1/3rd the cost per patient. So much for 'best in the world'. What the US offers is the best care money can buy for the rich, if you exclude Switzerland, etc. and other First World medical experts which most US citizens are completely ignorant about.
Two big factors damaging our care are the glacial pace the FDA approves new procedures and treatments at and the tort environment US physicians operate within. Many specialists pay 30% to 50% of gross income to malpractice insurance, which has to add up to more than the 2% fraction quoted above. New York being probably the worst, CA and a few others much better.
Some practices actually pay less for malpractice insurance than family medical insurance but others skyrocket to the point US med students simply aren't going into those specialties. Foreign trained MDs are the only recourse, now over half the new licenses in the US?
Even where direct costs for malpractice ins. aren't high, the threat distorts practices to excessive testing and excess consultations that balloon costs.
Anyone interested can read the mission statement of the AMA to see where a big part of the current problem of affordable and effective care lies. It sure ain't the Hippocratic Oath!

The basis for 'Medical tourism' is seen in the many clinics just outside the borders of the US, North and South, set up by US doctors. Somewhat to seriously cheaper costs in a different legal/regulatory environment. And many procedures available there and the EU are still in phase II and III clinical studies in the US. Thailand and India are recruiting many cosmetic procedure patients from here, costs can be 1/3rd, recourse for bad outcomes is not what US clients are used to.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 2/18/2015 6:47:53 PM >

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RE: Medical tourism....to Cuba - 2/18/2015 6:50:27 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Ever consider single payer....
Not for nothing DS,but I read my article fine,nothing in what you quoted answered the questions SinFix and I were asking...it's not contained in the article


Really? Then, you might want to start reading what you write, too.

Mike: "No mention of cosmetic or gender type procedures in the article..."

Article (emphasis mine): "It [a study about medical tourism] found that some of the most common procedures included spinal, weight-loss and cosmetic surgery, and cancer treatment."

Regarding single payer: Show me where costs will actually drop, and not just rise slower. Are you going to finally be the one to show me, after I've been asking (for years now?) for an instance where the costs have actually dropped. Look at the graphs. Every place they've instituted nationalized health care, costs haven't gone down, but they have stopped rising as quickly. Post-WWII, US spending was in the same general area as every other country out there. The difference now, is that our costs have risen more dramatically than others. I even started a fucking thread about why US costs are so fucking high. Who is government going to negotiate prices with? Drug companies? Do you think drug companies have a 50%+ profit margin? They would need to have that (and be forced to slice it nearly to nothing) for our drug costs to drop to half of what they are now. Why does Congress pass a "Doc Fix" Bill every time it comes up? Bill Clinton's Medicare reform bill had provisions to slash reimbursements (I believe it's in the 20-30% range now). If Medicare reimbursement rates can't be cut by 20-30% (government is the single payer there, no?), how are the rest of the procedures, services, and goods going to be cut? Most insurance negotiated rates are 20-40% higher than Medicare rates.

Where is government going to negotiate prices down?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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