quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you said earlier that the issue is states' rights---so im unclear how the "point of contention is guns?" it seems to me the point of contention is the relationship between states, and between states & the federal government.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm not aware that all concealed carry people are angles...are you,personally aware of that ?

Especially when I consider I can get one from Florida thru the mail....[8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am in favor of this. I think that if you meet a states requirements, regardless of how lax, then cool. If they wanted to establish a minimum "reasonable" standard for all states on CCW then cool. And I recognize to some reasonable means someone has to be able to prove that they are being shot at before being allowed to carry. Others can't think of any restrictions that make up a reason not to. By reasonable, a course with appropriate subject matter (marksmanship, safety, etc.) and a general overview of the laws of the land.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm not aware that all concealed carry people are angles...are you,personally aware of that ?

Especially when I consider I can get one from Florida thru the mail....[8|]

Hmm. . . would they happen to be a cute angle or are you just being obtuse?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am in favor of this. I think that if you meet a states requirements, regardless of how lax, then cool. If they wanted to establish a minimum "reasonable" standard for all states on CCW then cool. And I recognize to some reasonable means someone has to be able to prove that they are being shot at before being allowed to carry. Others can't think of any restrictions that make up a reason not to. By reasonable, a course with appropriate subject matter (marksmanship, safety, etc.) and a general overview of the laws of the land.

Wouldn't the background thing for purchasing a firearm in the first place be a minimum "reasonable" standard, since it IS a federal thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I'm not aware that all concealed carry people are angles...are you,personally aware of that ?

Especially when I consider I can get one from Florida thru the mail....[8|]

Hmm. . . would they happen to be a cute angle or are you just being obtuse?

I think you're right but my opinion could turn around, 180° (You don't know how bad I wanted to do something like: "I might do a 360°" but, I was afraid most wouldn't get it).



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?

No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.

well why are we all talking about guns then instead of the relationship between the states and the federal government?

and bama's posting of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution?

Because the point of contention is........guns

you said earlier that the issue is states' rights---so im unclear how the "point of contention is guns?" it seems to me the point of contention is the relationship between states, and between states & the federal government.

we could just as easily be talking about marriage, or adoption, or driver's licenses, or any another issue that draws attention to the those relationships.

to focus on the minute (the "small" definition, not the clock-time one) here is to lose touch with the overarching argument.

if its about states' rights and the constitution, I don't know how you can ignore bama's link.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


You've spouting this primitive view in lame fashion for a long time. If you can't see why many sensible people have a problem with guns, then you're not much different than Bama.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

just to be clear here too....

this bill here has to do with already law-abiding citizens.

it in no way shape or form does anything concerning criminals intent on doing harm with their guns.

So what you are saying is tat the law is "well intended"....
You know what they say about the road to perdition ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

I'm not aware of any state that offers free permits, resident or otherwise.

quote:

and maybe weeks to procure?

At a minimum. Some states are notorious for making people wait months (Massachusetts comes immediately to mind) for ANY firearms permit.

quote:

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

If you fail to meet their requirements, certainly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I suspect the "non-resident" permit costs money?

I'm not aware of any state that offers free permits, resident or otherwise.

quote:

and maybe weeks to procure?

At a minimum. Some states are notorious for making people wait months (Massachusetts comes immediately to mind) for ANY firearms permit.

quote:

would there ever be a reason why any one state would deny the request?

If you fail to meet their requirements, certainly.

But the Texas senators bill would make those requirements only binding on that particular states residents...anyone else from any neighboring state could ignore local law were this to pass

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

thank you kitten...

so mike---help me understand---is the main problem you are having with the bill is that sometimes states mess up and felons get guns?

if that is true---do you think those felons care that new York's law is tougher than Florida's, such that if they wanted to go to ny AND take their guns there, that they actually wouldn't?

No my main problem is a Senator from a state with lax guns laws telling the citizens of another state which of their laws are applicable.
States Rights is as good a place as any to look at.

well why are we all talking about guns then instead of the relationship between the states and the federal government?

and bama's posting of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution?

Because the point of contention is........guns

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Yes, but the point isn't about what you want, it's about public safety and respecting jurisdictions (code for urban) that don't share your values. Legitimate public safety concerns should always trump NRA fantasy trips about individual rights and "liberty." I know you recognize this b/c you stated spreading guns into Universities in Idaho was probably a bad idea.

For myself, all I have to do is think of that shooting in NC and how the NYT described it:

Neighbors knew Craig Stephen Hicks. He was the angry man on Summerwalk Circle, they said — irritated about noise, irascible about parking, hostile to religion. And armed.

Many people want to know how we can stop this shit, and the NRA line that more gun rights and more mass ownership of weapons makes us safer is, how should we say, INSANE.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Yes, but the point isn't about what you want, it's about public safety and respecting jurisdictions (code for urban) that don't share your values. Legitimate public safety concerns should always trump NRA fantasy trips about individual rights and "liberty."

All I have to do is think of that shooting in NC and how the NYT described it:

Neighbors knew Craig Stephen Hicks. He was the angry man on Summerwalk Circle, they said — irritated about noise, irascible about parking, hostile to religion. And armed.

Many people want to know how we can stop this shit, and the NRA line that more gun rights and more mass ownership of weapons makes us safer is, how should we say, INSANE.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


You've spouting this primitive view in lame fashion for a long time.

quote:

If you can't see why many sensible people have a problem with guns, then you're not much different than Bama.