Taming a sub's unconscious mind (Full Version)

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funwhentheybeg4 -> Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 10:33:21 AM)

I've been training & playing with an online sub since early October of last year. Since we live thousands of miles apart, we're limited to online interactions only.

In those four-plus months we have, by mutual consent, focused heavily on orgasm denial for her coupled with sometimes prolific edging.

For quite a while I didn't place any restrictions on how much she could edge. But that changed when I found out she was edging more or less constantly in her free time. I decided to pull her back a bit, and finally decided to cut her off sex altogether for a week – no masturbating at all, no using her sex toys, no looking at porn, no morning mantra. Nothing sexual at all.

Just in the last few weeks we've run into something I've never encountered before. She's begun having vivid sex dreams in which she approaches & even achieves orgasm. She wakes up soaking wet from these dreams & can remember them clearly. She swears to me – and I believe her – she isn't touching herself in her sleep. She's been quick to let me know when she has one of these dreams.

On the plus side, most of her dreams involve sex with me, so what's not to like about that? (The remainder seem to just be about edging itself.)

But on the minus side, neither of us want her to be orgasming in her sleep. But aren't sure how to stop it.

Any thoughts or suggestions on how to train a sub's unconscious mind?



peppermint -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 10:39:47 AM)

Obviously she finds what you are telling her to do very erotic. That's good.

I guess you need to figure out how to control your own dreams. When you can control what you dream about, you can then teach her how you did that so she can do it.

I have never heard of anyone trying to control dreams. Dreams happen, just like shit. You can't stop shit as it's needed for a healthy body. You can't stop dreams because they are needed for a healthy mind.



ExiledTyrant -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 10:42:17 AM)

Well, I cannot see where this is a bad thing, but if you want to alter that "dream state" I'd recommend lucid dreaming techniques.



shiftyw -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 10:43:18 AM)

Can I ask why you find orgasm denial so important, that unintentional orgasm matters? Why aren't her conscious efforts enough?



SeekingTrinity -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 10:43:34 AM)

~FRing it~

There honestly isn't anything you are going to be able to do about it.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 10:45:14 AM)


I don't know that there's much that can be done about this.

I am not positive, but I am pretty sure that most research says that we have no control over our dreams (as a supporting statement: when I left the Catholic Church, 13+ years ago, even they didn't hold people responsible for what happened in their dreams and they can be pretty hard core!).

I can't think of a thing to suggest that might not be very dangerous to your lady, but my best advice is "accept the things you cannot change".



Michael



IcarusBurning -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 11:13:32 AM)

i think your sub is very sweet to be trying this hard to control her most primal and intimate urges on your behest, and downright honest to share her dreams with you which she could have very easily concealed given the distance. dont be so harsh on her. i know you mention that she would like to be able to control it as well, possibly to adhere to the rules set by you. be kind to her, and tell her not to be so harsh to herself either. she is doing a great job, let her know you are so very proud of her.



orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 12:10:45 PM)

Lol, I just saw your other post on the other site.


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Can I ask why you find orgasm denial so important, that unintentional orgasm matters? Why aren't her conscious efforts enough?


The full effects of denial are often only felt when it has been ongoing for some time. If you're constantly breaking the denial by orgasming, intentionally or otherwise, then you are never really feeling the full effects.



shiftyw -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 12:15:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

Lol, I just saw your other post on the other site.


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Can I ask why you find orgasm denial so important, that unintentional orgasm matters? Why aren't her conscious efforts enough?


The full effects of denial are often only felt when it has been ongoing for some time. If you're constantly breaking the denial by orgasming, intentionally or otherwise, then you are never really feeling the full effects.


Well- yes. But what effects are we trying to achieve and is there another way to come to the same end without orgasm denial.
Its going to be a rough ride if thats both their kink and she can't control it, I think. I would imagine there has to be an alternative activity?



orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 12:26:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

Lol, I just saw your other post on the other site.


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Can I ask why you find orgasm denial so important, that unintentional orgasm matters? Why aren't her conscious efforts enough?


The full effects of denial are often only felt when it has been ongoing for some time. If you're constantly breaking the denial by orgasming, intentionally or otherwise, then you are never really feeling the full effects.


Well- yes. But what effects are we trying to achieve and is there another way to come to the same end without orgasm denial.
Its going to be a rough ride if thats both their kink and she can't control it, I think. I would imagine there has to be an alternative activity?



Oh I don't believe he can really alter her, I think in this case he has to accept it or try a different approach. I was simply answering your question about why unintentional orgasms might matter, despite her conscious obedience.



shiftyw -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 12:33:38 PM)

out of curiosity- I really haven't done more than a couple weeks (maybe 3?) in orgasm denial- what effects do you feel long term?



funwhentheybeg4 -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 5:25:25 PM)

Thanks everyone for your input. I didn't really think there's any way to control my sub's unconscious (well, short of heavy-duty spy-stuff brainwashing), but hey.....

As to why it's so important -- mostly because she'd prefer to have her orgasms when awake, which I allow only when specific conditions are met (which haven't been met lately -- one of them being the two of us being online together when she's allowed to cum). Dream-orgasms -- like most things that occur in dreams -- are fleeting & only partly satisfying, no matter how soaked the bedsheets might be upon awakening. Just ask any teenage boy.

And then there's the whole 'orgasm denial' experience. Again, stressing that this is by mutual consent -- she likes being in a heightened state of arousal for prolonged periods. Turns the brain off, among other things. Even though it's unconscious, a dream-orgasm releases that tension & re-sets her body, so to speak, diminishing that desired state.

I'd also like to stress that she hasn't been punished in any way for this, nor do I intend to. She's working very hard at pleasing me. I appreciate that, and have told her so.



GoddessManko -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 5:38:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

out of curiosity- I really haven't done more than a couple weeks (maybe 3?) in orgasm denial- what effects do you feel long term?


My experience, your body starts to react. All senses are amplified you get addicted to your partner's pheromonal release. Everything is extremely hyper sensitive and intense. Your body starts to crave satiation. It can leave you writhing in bed or easily aroused by stimuli of choice.



HaremEmperor -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 5:59:44 PM)

FRing it~
Aah the power of the mind, one of my favorite subjects. Well it would all depend on certain factors. Does this happen every time? Does she last a while before she starts having those dreams? I once used hypnosis to make my sub have specific dreams that worked to my advantage. Of course I wanted her to orgasm while dreaming of me, but the concept is the same. Or you could make her not having orgasms while she dreams one of your "requirements". Start off letting her cum for you whenever she doesn't have dreams, then after a while she gets to cum for you whenever she has one of her dreams and doesn't orgasm. Just a thought...



orgasmdenial12 -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/26/2015 11:34:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
out of curiosity- I really haven't done more than a couple weeks (maybe 3?) in orgasm denial- what effects do you feel long term?


For me, I get really masochistic and my pain tolerance goes sky high - I can enjoy things I'd never normally be able to take, let alone enjoy. I become very service focussed, which partners often enjoy. I become more, I guess, stereotypically feminine - dresses, heels, make up, etc. I think the biggest change is my personality. I'm often quite bossy and perfectionist, due in part to my job and various stresses, but when I'm denied I become very laid-back, accepting, submissive, less argumentative, more open to trying new things, etc.

If you've gone a few weeks, you'll know how it affects you - it's most likely just an escalation of that, and a deepening of any psychological changes.



NookieNotes -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/27/2015 1:58:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
out of curiosity- I really haven't done more than a couple weeks (maybe 3?) in orgasm denial- what effects do you feel long term?


For me, I get really masochistic and my pain tolerance goes sky high - I can enjoy things I'd never normally be able to take, let alone enjoy. I become very service focussed, which partners often enjoy. I become more, I guess, stereotypically feminine - dresses, heels, make up, etc. I think the biggest change is my personality. I'm often quite bossy and perfectionist, due in part to my job and various stresses, but when I'm denied I become very laid-back, accepting, submissive, less argumentative, more open to trying new things, etc.


Orgasm releases testosterone in both men and women, making them more independent, able to think critically, more decisive, more active, more willing to stand up for themselves.

If you remove that, but keep in the activities that create dopamine (edging, affection, play), you will create a super happy and addicted sub.

In very basic terms.



DesFIP -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/27/2015 7:48:48 AM)

Yeah, it's pretty common for stuff to come out in dreams. So if she's aroused all the time, then the occasional dream orgasm will happen. And there's nothing you can do to stop it except shut down all sexual expression totally.

In about six weeks, her libido should take a nose dive. However, don't expect to be able to restart it, you probably can't. She'll need to move on to someone else to bring it back up.

Is she sleeping through or is her sleep being interrupted? That to me is of more importance. If she's waking up every couple of hours, then that's not safe. Federal rates of sleep deprivation and automobile accidents are chilling. Don't deliberately cause that.



NookieNotes -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/27/2015 8:51:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
In about six weeks, her libido should take a nose dive. However, don't expect to be able to restart it, you probably can't. She'll need to move on to someone else to bring it back up.


I'm sorry, but this has not been my experience or reality. How often have you practiced responsible orgasm control? How many test subjects are you working with? Have you talked to others about this? What about scientific evidence?

In my experience and research, playing with orgasm control/denial in and of itself DOES NOT in most reduce the ability to orgasm. That is already built into the body, and takes more than simply not using it, even for one partner.



MariaB -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/27/2015 10:47:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

Orgasm releases testosterone in both men and women, making them more independent, able to think critically, more decisive, more active, more willing to stand up for themselves.

If you remove that, but keep in the activities that create dopamine (edging, affection, play), you will create a super happy and addicted sub.

In very basic terms.



Well bloody hell, I learn something new every day in this place. So this is why my ex, who btw nicknamed me a cock teaser was so addicted to me and there was me thinking I was just a lazy selfish lover [:)]



GoddessManko -> RE: Taming a sub's unconscious mind (2/27/2015 10:52:20 AM)

Hmmm...interesting. Orgasm denial made me able to control many facets of my life. I practice it with myself moreso than my partners. It is hard to put the results of this into words. EVERYTHING is that much more intense so then you are forced to a position of being more disciplined. It improved my ability to think independently. I am not servile at all and it is more a control factor for me than anything. Including self control. I am also able to control my frenzy. [:D]



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