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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 5:44:33 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		Sure I will lump all Palestinians as one........even though it's an undeclared war, it's still a war and when you are in any kind of war, you don't only fight the people you don't personally like. You fight the people against you as a whole entity.
I get the distinct feeling that many on here and elsewhere tend to lump the Israelis as one. I guess that's different though. Silly me.

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 5:53:05 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Sure I will lump all Palestinians as one........even though it's an undeclared war, it's still a war and when you are in any kind of war, you don't only fight the people you don't personally like. You fight the people against you as a whole entity.
I get the distinct feeling that many on here and elsewhere tend to lump the Israelis as one. I guess that's different though. Silly me.


Silly you indeed, considering I have a post on page six arguing about how many votes Netenyahu won on the previous election.

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 5:58:49 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
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Status: offline 		He is still top dog in Israel though I believe and if his party got in by only one vote, does that really matter ?
you are always right though so I will run away and hide in fear. It's pointless arguing though because nobody ever won an argument especially on these forums.

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 6:08:32 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

He is still top dog in Israel though I believe and if his party got in by only one vote, does that really matter ?
you are always right though so I will run away and hide in fear. It's pointless arguing though because nobody ever won an argument especially on these forums.


You clearly stated people here lump Israelis as one. I pointed out I dont and you then have a tantrum.

His party havent won by one vote, they are looking like they will need to form yet another Israeli coalition, as is always the case.

What do you make of Bibi stating there will never be a two state solution, when asked, to his change of stance once he was elected ? It looks to me like a man who will say anything just to cling to power.

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 6:36:58 PM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		i think he addresses the "supposed" change of stance really well in the interview:

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/03/video-megyn-kelly-full-interview-with.html

in case the first link doesn't cooperate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46snq1W9wyU&feature=youtu.be


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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 6:46:31 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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Status: offline 		How can something he cleary said when asked, now be "supposed" except Fox viewer land ?

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 7:44:35 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
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Status: offline 		Do you really need to ask that question ?
I would think the answer is self evident,even all the way across the pond

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 8:00:21 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Never mind

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/20/2015 8:02:53 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 8:03:26 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		What ,exactly,does "constipated" sound like Butch ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 8:06:52 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		lol... I don't know I no longer hear it....I've turned down the volume.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/20/2015 8:39:45 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Lol.....perhaps if you hear it again you could take note and share with us.....lol

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/21/2015 3:17:17 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

i think he addresses the "supposed" change of stance really well in the interview:

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/03/video-megyn-kelly-full-interview-with.html

You are correct to put the slash marks around Netanyahoo's "supposed" change of stance. Netanyahoo didn't change his true stance at all. His real position all along has been to do everything in his power to prevent the formation of a Palestinian State. Netanyahoo has never been in favour of land for peace and has opposed every Isreali withdrawal from land they occupied. He even opposed Sharon's unilateral retreat from Gaza. This position is in line with the Likud Party Charter, which "flatly rejects a Palestinian State".

The "supposed" change of stance occurred in his Bar-Elan speech some years ago when he grudgingly conceded the principle of a Two State Solution (TSS) under heavy US pressure. He did this purely for reasons of expediency and never did he cease doing everything in his power to obstruct the TSS becoming a reality - he offered no concessions whatsoever during the negotiations, he promoted the colonies/settlements at every available opportunity, even when forced to choose between expanding the settlements and participation in peace talks, he had no hesitation in choosing to expand the illegal colonies/settlements and sabotaging the peace process - bear in mind that the settler's primary objective is the prevention of a Palestinian State, as they have stated repeatedly and publicly - his response to Palestinian concessions during the peace process was to repeatedly increase Israeli demands, not make a concession in return (source: Wikileaks Palestine Papers).

Netanyahoo's complete rejection of the TSS is not a change of stance at all but simply a public statement of what has been his private position all along. It has never been Israeli policy to withdraw from the West Bank - the complete annexation of the West Bank has been Israel's #1 goal all along - why else would they build the colonies/settlements? If they had the slightest intention of ever withdrawing from the West Bank, they wouldn't be wasting time money and risking their soldier's lives by building the colonies/settlements. Netanyahoo made noises about accepting the TSS in principle only to placate the US and keep the cash and arms flowing.

By finally abandoning the duplicitous rhetoric about Israel's supposed acceptance of the Two State Solution all that Netanyahoo has done is make Israel's secret long term goal public and explicit. Israel's rejection of the TSS is no longer an allegation that Israel's critics make, but is now a matter of indisputable fact. It is not the Israelis but the Palestinians who have no partner for peace.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/21/2015 3:25:08 AM >

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/21/2015 7:49:25 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'll let you know...but it is something like nails on a chalk board...and the constant whine of a 3 year old along with the old man that pokes at you with his cane and rants about young whippersnappers.... otherwise not worth listening to.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/21/2015 8:07:09 AM   
Kirata


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~ FR ~

Here's a thought. The "game" that Bibi and Obama are playing is intended to give the appearance of a grave breach in relations so that Israel can attack Iran without implicating the United States.

The logic behind this approach is that allowing Israel to mount the air strikes, rather than the United States, provides a way out of the dilemma described in the previous chapter, whereby American airstrikes against Iran could become self-defeating because they would undermine every other American initiative in the Middle East, an outcome exactly the opposite of what a new Iran policy is meant to accomplish. ~Source

K.

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/21/2015 8:20:37 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Just my opinion...but I believe it is just as it seems... Obama is truly trying to find a political solution that is common to the so called liberal way of thinking and Netanyahu is an aggressive conservative that believes Obama is weak and only force will stop Iran. They just do not like or respect each other but are forced to work together. We just have to realize there will be no peace in the next 4 to 8 years...more of the same.

The fault lies with the people of Israel and with the people of the US....AND with the militants of the middle east... There is no chance for peace right now... there has just not been enough blood yet.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/21/2015 8:24:02 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/21/2015 8:53:38 AM   
Kirata


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>Just my opinion...but I believe it is just as it seems...

That could well be true. But in that case, Obama may be playing directly into the hands of the hawks in both the U.S. and Israel who want to see Iran attacked. The problem for the U.S. has always been how to manage appearances to avoid the international outrage that would surely ensue, and any attack by Israel would in the past have been viewed as happening with U.S. support and backing. I can see no other benefit to provoking Obama as Bibi has done, except to create a breach that would give Israel a free hand.

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/21/2015 9:18:38 AM >

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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/21/2015 11:16:16 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

Here's a thought. The "game" that Bibi and Obama are playing is intended to give the appearance of a grave breach in relations so that Israel can attack Iran without implicating the United States.

The logic behind this approach is that allowing Israel to mount the air strikes, rather than the United States, provides a way out of the dilemma described in the previous chapter, whereby American airstrikes against Iran could become self-defeating because they would undermine every other American initiative in the Middle East, an outcome exactly the opposite of what a new Iran policy is meant to accomplish. ~Source

K.


I'm not sure,but I think I read somewhere that Israel does not have the capabilities to do the job in such a way as to be certain they shut down the program....not without American help anyway.
Can't recall what the issue was.....specialized American munitions needed to ensure destruction of the underground hardened facilities...plain old logistical problems such as mid air refueling capabilities or a hesitancy to use weapons that Israel has long denied they possessed....or perhaps it's just a case of knowing to do so will kick off a war in the ME that Israel is loathe to do without full American backing.
I do know this,trying to knock out Iran's nuke program isn't as easy as sending tanks into Palestinian neighborhoods against rock throwing teens.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: * What is Bibi's game? - 3/21/2015 2:22:42 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

lol... I don't know I no longer hear it....I've turned down the volume.

Butch


It is time to call it a day when you are listening to yourself Butch.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 138
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