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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 6:21:21 PM   
kdsub


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No but I know who came up with common core and the reasons... The people who did are most likely more experienced and educated than you or I. And I was not sparing... just asking.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 6:24:20 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No but I know who came up with common core and the reasons... The people who did are most likely more experienced and educated than you or I. And I was not sparing... just asking.

Butch



I am not trying to be combative, but I spent a fair amount of time on what I thought was a good post.

Instead of mentioning the information, I put out there, including what the teacher of the year said the reason was, she could no longer teach, you seem to "ignore" the information I put in my post.

oh well

I thought that article by the teacher of the year, in a recent Washington Post editorial was major.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 6:28:11 PM   
kdsub


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It was... we just have differing opinions... just because I answer to your post does not mean I am belittling it. This is the purpose I thought discussion of the issues... not if you don't agree with me and my ideas because of the time I put in it you are an ass thread.

I do respect your view... hell we can't agree all the time.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 7:04:45 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 6:30:55 PM   
Marini


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That's true, but again you have not mentioned anything specific about my post, that you don't agree with.

You are the only person I have met, run across, or chatted with ANYWHERE, that feels the Common Core is a good idea.


< Message edited by Marini -- 3/3/2015 6:32:12 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 6:52:38 PM   
kdsub


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Here is why I like it and why your post and those against common core are hard for me to understand.

Often the main complaint of common core is that it reveals school systems that are under performing and are not up to the stated target standards. To me it is just revealing what is a proven fact... our educational system is falling behind many industrial nations of the world.

Our education system of the last 25 years is not teaching our kids what they will need to compete on the world stage. Common core is showing this and is pointing out where we will need to improve if our nation and children are to prosper in the coming years. It is long overdue and even if kicking and screaming the system must change... and common core will show the way.

Here in my town our school far exceeds the common core standards and the children are getting an excellent education...and you hear no complaints about common core.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 6:55:15 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:05:36 PM   
Marini


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Maybe that is the case "in your town".

I found over 300,000 posts related to those in Missouri, AGAINST the common core.

Many of these groups are led by parents.

Missouri Coalition against the common core

Since there are sooooooooooo many groups in your state against the Common Core, it will be easy enough to find out why so many in your state are against it.

Peace

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/3/2015 7:07:02 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:10:56 PM   
kdsub


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Please explain to me in the link you provided where the complaints have anything to do with education.

Please keep in mind one of the biggest complaints in out-state Missouri is the fear of control will not allow them to teach creative design along with evolution... not hardly a educational discussion of how to compete on the world stage.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 7:15:03 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:13:25 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Please explain to me in the link you provided where the complaints have anything to do with education.

Butch


lol
There is not enough time in the universe for me, to explain to someone who won't read or comment on information given to them.
goodnight


< Message edited by Marini -- 3/3/2015 7:15:02 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:16:32 PM   
kdsub


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I did read your link... I challenge you to point out anything to do with education in that link. It was only complaining about control of standards.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 7:17:05 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:20:09 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I did read your link... I challenge you to point out anything to do with education in that link. It was only complaining about control of standards.

Butch




You may not have gained anything from my posts, hopefully someone else will.
Peace

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:22:38 PM   
kdsub


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So that means you can't................................................................................................................. ok goodnight

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 7:24:53 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:24:47 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So that means you can't


I agree with what was written by the teacher of the year, from the Washington Post editorial, and quoted and highlighted part of it, on post #18.
especially the "drill em, and kill em"statement

If "drill me and kill em" beginning in Kindergarten is what is considered education/and teaching these days, we are worse off than most people believe.

A Kindergartners Nightmare

Goodnight butch

**I ask that everyone reading this thread, that cares at all about the state of education, read about the Common Core.**

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/3/2015 7:44:03 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:44:57 PM   
kdsub


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Yes I did...all I saw was people complaining that they are loosing control of what they think they should teach... The one example you posted from is a special education teacher with students that are in Ninth grade reading at the fourth grade level.... WHY are they in the ninth grade?

HERE is a link for you to read... if you wish

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 7:45:33 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:49:08 PM   
Marini


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What about students that need more help in Kindergarten?

What about the students that are not on grade level leaving Kindergarten?

What about the millions of students that need extra time, effort, or support?

drill em and kill em

I know you butch, you will debate this 100 pages and I am not retired, so we can agree to disagree.

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/3/2015 7:50:11 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:55:23 PM   
kdsub


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lol... I know you too... you are a tough cookie... yes lets agree to disagree on good terms.

quote:

What about students that need more help in Kindergarten?


Will common core will point them out for help as evidently the existing system did not.

BUT...lol... HERE is a Missouri link to Common Core... it even addresses the gifted and special education students your teacher quote complains about.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/3/2015 7:57:54 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 7:58:06 PM   
cloudboy


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The Federal Government should get out of the business of primary and secondary education.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 8:34:27 PM   
ForgetMeKnots


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~FR~
1-
Testing for measurement isn’t a bad idea, but testing isn’t just to show what someone knows…it should be used to address deficiencies so that a person knows and understands everything that is necessary. Standardized test results aren’t shared with schools or teachers until the end of the school year, or even the next school year, making it impossible for teachers to address any deficiency. Moreover, I am getting ready to go into almost nine weeks of testing, where students will be tested and our schools will be on alternative schedules rather than in the classroom learning. The MCAT and LSAT are 5-6 hour tests and a middle school student will take a 2 hour writing test, a similarly timed reading test, a similarly timed math test, a Science FCAT (yes, still FCAT) in addition to an End of Course Exam (30% of their grade, if I recall) in Civics, Algebra or Geometry.
2-
The “Writing” test that students took this week in many states isn’t just a test on writing ability. They are given a task to write an essay based on articles given to them. If a student has a reading deficiency then they are starting at a loss to begin with. Additionally many of these tests are taken on computers. This is fine for students in homes and districts that have daily or hourly access to computers, but many students do not have access to these tools on a regular basis. This was not just a writing test…it is also a reading and typing test. Furthermore, teachers and parents are not permitted to see the information on the test, there is little oversight on the types of questions and if the questions are worded incorrectly, or if the answer isn’t really there, then students will assume that they don’t know the answer, not that the test is wrong.
I, personally, feel that it is wrong (and cruel!) to have a student with a reading problem sit through this test that his/her teachers KNOW they can’t pass just so we can give them a score that shows they’re not on level. We’re sitting children down to write essays that require reading levels that *they don’t have* and telling them to fill up blank pages with an essay they can’t write. We’re making them sit there in silence for two hours while they just think about what they can’t do. How is that anything but torture for that child?
3-
The technology didn’t work. Surprisingly (or not) when all of the 10th graders in a state attempt to access the internet at the same time, things don’t work. So, we have students that have to sit silently for hours while the IT professionals try to work out what happened. At my school one student was so stressed by this delay that they threw up in the floor while waiting. The room had to be cleared and sanitized before they could start. The delay was more significant in other places – some still haven’t taken the test—creating a situation where some students had to take the test and others have (presumably, despite the gag orders given to students and teachers) a chance to think about the test and the question they will answer beforehand.
4-
According to the test makers in my state, this delay is *no big deal* because we have a two week testing period, isn’t that great!! Except that we need that time to prepare for other tests that are coming down the road later this year. For the last few weeks I’ve hit writing pretty hard in my classroom, neglecting elements of literature. This is problematic for me because I have a reading test to prepare them for that will be here in a few months. Those test makers don’t realize (or don’t care) that every test window effects the whole school. We must have an alternate schedule because some classrooms are set up as testing computer labs. We have silent halls and no locker times, creating chaos in the classrooms because half of the students bring what is needed and the other half left their things in their lockers –oops—and can’t go retrieve them. This creates a need for an alternative lesson, which isn’t a big deal **IF** it can be planned for…but with these nifty two week testing windows, how can someone create two weeks of alternative lessons hoping we don’t need them?
5-
The PARCC test has a 37% pass rate for boys in Utah, which is where it was field tested. Does that mean that most of Utah is deficient? Or does that mean the test isn't valid?
Florida says that it doesn’t matter what students really score, the grades will be the same as last year. (I know I read this somewhere, but I can’t find the article right now.) Basically because the state doesn’t want this test to flop any more than it already has, the same number of students will score a 5 this year as last year, no matter what.
No one can get the information correct, in fact what I have seen is that the FSA ELA Writing Test is still shown as a 90 minute test, when in fact it was a 120 minute test.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/03/03/mom-why-my-kids-wont-be-taking-the-new-florida-standards-assessment-test/

I am all for holding teachers accountable for the learning that goes on in their classroom. I've also never had a problem with "teaching to the test" because in the past, the skills I've taught for the test were valid. However, Common Core and the new Florida Standards that are based on Common Core do not take into account that these new standards have been rolled out in one year. In one year a 6th grade student is supposed to be able to do what a 10th grade student used to do. It makes for incredibly stressful classrooms because there is only so much a person can absorb at a time. Not only is it full of new criteria, but it's also in a new format. No longer is there only one right answer--now there are several, and a student needs to pick them all to get full credit. Question 12 may relate to the answer from question 10 and 11, so if one part is wrong, then potentially they're all wrong.

If they want to have a test like this, then fine. But it can't be multiple choice and it can't be graded by a computer. But, no one wants to pay for that.

In regard to not hearing anyone complain – I would hesitate to put my real name on anything that decried Common Core or the LAFS for fear of what my administration would say. Teachers aren’t supposed to have opinions--- out of the many, many articles on Common Core, you’re not going to see an overwhelming discussion from CURRENT teachers because there is a fear of backlash. If you complain about it then you’re the problem, not the system.

The reason that there are 9th graders with 4th grade reading level is because statistically if they’re held back then they have a higher risk of dropping out altogether. The idea is that if they’re in school, in remedial reading classes then at least they’re learning something.

I wrote all of this out before I realized how this thread was going. Oh well.



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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 8:43:34 PM   
Marini


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Great post FMK!

You did an excellent job of reporting "from the trenches".

This thread is going along nicely.
You are always going to have opposing opinions on here, that does not mean that the thread is not worth while.

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

It's safe to say, there will be little to no teaching going on at your school the next 3 months.
*Maybe you will be able to actually CRAM in some teaching, if you are lucky.*

sounds like a nightmare for a large percentage of the students, parents, teachers and administrators.


< Message edited by Marini -- 3/3/2015 9:13:21 PM >


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to ForgetMeKnots)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 9:23:41 PM   
KenDckey


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I have a great niece that is reading books (for fun) at a 4th grade level. Her teacher told her to stop because it was making the other kids uncomfortable in class. In Common Core you were required to stay with the class not ahead of it.

My son likes Common Core for his kids, except the math component. Says they made it to difficult. Kids are stressed all the time. Also got into it with the teacher because she was requireing the kids to use the computer to do homework. He allows the kids 30 minutes computer time daily. How they use to it is up to the kids. The teacher was assigning 2-3 hr research projects on almost a daily basis. Not all kids have computer access. Although the school was required to purchase books, the kids were denied access to them. (he works for a different school district and knows where theya re stored for both districts)


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RE: Students Revolt over Common Core Testing - 3/3/2015 10:15:23 PM   
ForgetMeKnots


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Let me just add that I had to go to a meeting where one of the Common Core developers was presenting. Basically what was said is that college and university professors were tired of getting students that didn't have the ability to write or read on level (welcome to our world), so they developed CC to be implemented in every state so that children were held to higher standards all across the nation.

Except a few states decided not to.

The main problem I have with CC is that everyone wants an immediate change, so instead of being *realistic* and rolling out these higher standards a year at a time, or even over 2-3 years total, it's all been thrown at us at once. We tried prepping for it last year, but everything was so undecided that we couldn't. Literally, all we were told is that there will be reading and writing problems on ALL of the tests (even Math) and that your rating as a teacher (up to 50% of your rating) will be based on this AND it will affect your pay.

At district held development meetings at the beginning of the year, the answer for every question about this new test was answered with "We don't know yet".

I had a meeting early last week to learn how to administer the test and the criteria had changed by the end of the week.

NOW, I've just read an article that says maybe the writing test (in my state) won't count at all because of all the issues. It's a farce.


_____________________________

~Formerly KneelforAnne~

BDSM is what two people at the moment decide it should be...
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