A serious question (Full Version)

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CrappyDom -> A serious question (7/14/2006 5:27:07 PM)

I post on another board that caters to pro-dommes and their clients as I sell toys and offer training to the dommes.  I have noticed (being the rocket scientist that I am) that those men who pay for it are willing to see 18-20 year old dommes and pay for services from someone who clearly can't yet know her ass from a hole in the ground (even more can be said for men at that age so that isn't a slap at women, just age).  In addition, those same men are NOT submitting, what they are doing is too toppy to even be considered topping from the bottom.

So, the question is, what do people think the motivation is to people to pay hundreds of dollars for what people here would call "fetish delivery" and what do those same men think they are doing?



MochaMistress -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 5:38:07 PM)

They are paying to live a few hours of a fantasy. As you mentioned not submitting but topping from the bottom paying to be treated the way they want. Thats my thoughts on what they are doing.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 5:45:38 PM)

A Pro-Domme business is about fantasy fulfillment. Those who choose to go to Pros usually do so because they can dictate the scene, pick the one who turns them on the most, don't have to worry about commitment, don't have to render service, or a combination of any of these. Sometimes, it's also a matter of not finding anyone local that will play with them or being too shy or too embarassed about their desires to go out into the kink public. And, sometimes, they're just too high profile to do such.

It works for them and works for the women who provide the service. It doesn't work for everyone.

Master Fire



Lashra -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 6:08:22 PM)

They are paying for a fantasy to be brought to life on their terms, thus why they pay. So it can be like Burger King and have it your way....

~Lashra
Whipping asses since 1981



stockingluvr54 -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 6:33:17 PM)

The only experience I've had is with a pro and thank god she was a good one that put that extra "personal" touch to things....especially for my first time. Bottom line is that it was still for pay...but at least I got a taste of what had been buggin me for years and now I know just abit more about myself. Still trying to figure things out as to where I may fit in this stuff but she helped me immensly(sp?) and I thank her (and paid) for the experience! Unfortunately alot of us will probably only have pros for RT experience.....that's been my situation so far....  I guess the pros and those of us that need them have a place too.....maybe not the best place but it's a start!



MHOO314 -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 7:07:45 PM)

Because the dynamic is vastly different between a Domina and a male sub, I guess My question is what and how can you teach?
 
Now, people will always pay for what they feel they cannot embrace---it makes it ok



CrappyDom -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 7:58:37 PM)

Teaching 20somethings isn't all that demanding, besides getting inside someone's mind is what I do best and what pros do and what people do in relationships is vastly different.



janiceleeinsc -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 8:22:31 PM)

While I agree that a twenty year old sex goddess probably does not have the knowledge to Dom, I tend to wonder why people pick on ladies who wish to turn pro.
For Example, in my area, there was no one I could talk with in the beginning, and I would have jumped at the chance to meet with a Pro that would send me in the right direction.  It is still my dream to have a Private Dungeon in my area. 
I know the demand is there because I have taked with submissive males; however, let me point one thing out.  It is not about sexual fantasy with me and I will have my slave there protecting me.  This is all a dream, and hope to establish it within two years. 
It costs big money to operate a dungeon.   I think Dom/Dommes should be paid for their services as long as they are not sexual in nature.  That is where the problem begins. 
The ones Crappy mentioned were seeking fantasy.   I can deal with fantasy as long as it is on my time, not there time. No topping from the bottom either.
Just my thoughts.
Respectfully,  Mistress_Jan



LotusSong -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 8:30:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: janiceleeinsc

While I agree that a twenty year old sex goddess probably does not have the knowledge to Dom, I tend to wonder why people pick on ladies who wish to turn pro.
For Example, in my area, there was no one I could talk with in the beginning, and I would have jumped at the chance to meet with a Pro that would send me in the right direction.  It is still my dream to have a Private Dungeon in my area. 
I know the demand is there because I have taked with submissive males; however, let me point one thing out.  It is not about sexual fantasy with me and I will have my slave there protecting me.  This is all a dream, and hope to establish it within two years. 
It costs big money to operate a dungeon.   I think Dom/Dommes should be paid for their services as long as they are not sexual in nature.  That is where the problem begins. 
The ones Crappy mentioned were seeking fantasy.   I can deal with fantasy as long as it is on my time, not there time. No topping from the bottom either.
Just my thoughts.
Respectfully,  Mistress_Jan


I posted this under another area for discussion but to no repsonse.  Lots read it..but no comment.  This was something I wrote  and present it to you for your consideration:

I don't know if you are interested in why there is a negative attitude about professional domination among the FreeDommes (I've stolen the term *Solitary from the Wiccan religion to describe myself), but I would like to share my experiences. I promise this will not be a "bashing" letter. You don't need it.

(This paragraph does not apply to the Pros-just an intro)

It began when I started to interact with other Dommes. The new ones would learn a little bit by reading or attending a dungeon party and immediately thought "hey, I can make some money with this." No regard for the submissive.. other than what she can get. OR you get the woman who finds her "domme-side" and sees worshiping men.. and thinks.. "hey, I'll find a hubby this way". More times than not, the "domme-side" disappears once she gets her man. Or times being rough, she will price out what little talents she has and call herself "pro" because she is getting paid.

(end of intro paragraph)

Now.. on the upside (S) I do admire the Pros out there that have at least a physiological degree of some sort. You know where the sub is coming from. You DO provide a service in this context. I'm sure if you saw something that the man needs to see a doctor for you would direct him.
It's a shame there is no program where a woman can go to that would instruct her in it all that includes a Psychology/medical course. If there is.. I applaud it and would want to know about it.
Why do I say this?
My slave came to me after 6 years of Pros. He didn't know there were women who enjoyed doing this that were NOT Pros. All he knew is.. you pay a woman who says she is a pro and you get your fix as he put it "when he's feeling submissive." He told me of the sessions and I was rather shocked. There was nothing outstanding. These were the ones who advertised in the DDI or the street tabloids .. not the "housewives-with-coathangers" (feel free to use that at will).
One session left him with nerve damage to the penis causing an inability to maintain an erection. (what was it? having him masturbate to climax while wearing a cock strap). No after care.. no counseling on how to take care of it. It eventually came back, but the psychological injury was what caused him the erectile difficulty.
This Solitary fixed the problem.. and I offer it to you. Slather Ambasol on your sub's cock when he thinks you are just lubricating it. It numbs it, but being you don't tell him what you did the suprise and anxiety of it all makes him hard. Being he can't feel himself.. he doesn't have the performance anxiety. He couldn't feel it starting to go down, even if it did. (You remove it by washing it off with dishwashing soap to cut the oily base and the numbness goes away immediately and he's back to normal.)
Realizing it was his mind and the fear that another Domme would "break" it.. and NOT a physical problem. His dysfunction was solved.
Another case in point is a Domme (well known in her state) that was upset with me for calling it "paid entertainment." She evangelized how good she was (of course this was in a chat room) and how Ignorant I was .. how they are not prostitutes (agreed) and how respected she was in her community. Two weeks later she was arrested for adding anal intercourse to the end of her session for the client (in this case an undercover cop) if they came up with an extra $300.
Another acquaintance of mine (a pro) was very proud about her web page. I looked it up.. There is was right in the middle of the advertisements for call girls and escorts. Even though it was categorized as BDSM.. we are known by the company we keep.
So what is one to think.. EVERY time a guy hears I'm a Domme.. the next question is "How much do you charge?" and I get insulted. Because you KNOW what they are thinking. (callgirl..prostitute..money exhchange..dominatrix.. same thing) GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

(Hang in here with me Pros.. I'm offering a solution..)

Is there ANYWAY you all can somehow validate yourselves by a curriculum of some sort? A nationwide (meeting of the minds) as to what a Dominatrix is.. why she is, why she SHOULD be practicing in a professional sense of the word. Give them sound base of medical and physiological knowledge as well as the techniques and then they can specialize from there? Just something I've thought about. If there are sex surrogats that have been legitimized.. why not the Dominatrixes?
It's kind of a MD vs DO vs Chiropractors vs Naturopaths vs Homeopaths. Who is real and effective and how does the consumer know the practitioner knows what they are doing. Even astrologers have a certification program with an Astrological Association in America that they can go through before they begin charging.
Ah well... just wanted to share my thoughts. As usual, take it for what you can get from it- if anything.



janiceleeinsc -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 9:01:31 PM)

LotusSong:

Thank you for your thoughts, and I did not find it one bit offensive.  I agree.  We need to redefine Pro-Domme.   For me, it is not sexual, but more of an educational type plan with the hopes of locating a Dom/Domme for them.
I would not ever harm anyone.  There are a couple of things I will not do.  Edge play is one of them.  I am not qualified enough to perform in that area.  I would not cut anyone.  I am all about the SSC.
I get very angry at web sites that state they are pro-domme, and it turns out to be hookers are us. 
I am going to continue with my dream.  The only thing about it is I hate to think I am going to have to have a lawyer to work with me, but it will have to be.  
Respectfully,  Mistress_Jan



MistressTexas -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 9:18:43 PM)

While I respect CrappyDom and everyone else who has posted here, I would like to speak out as a 20-something "Pro." I feel that while age certainly does have something to do with it, it isn't everything. I for one, am 20, but at this young age, I've already traveled the world,  I run 2 succesful businesses, I am a certified emergency medic, have taken courses in psych, survived cancer, more surgeries than I would like to remember, and helped several friends start their own businesses. I feel that my life experience gives me a maturity that many people don't have. This may sound arrogant, but I personally know many men and women older than me, with little to no life experience. I feel, contrary to CrappyDom's post, that I do know my ass from a hole in the ground. I did hours of research both online, real life, book studies, and smacked myself with a single tail lord only knows how may times in my learning. Pro Dommes provide a service, which may not be valuable to all, but is certainly valuable to some. I am appalled, however unsurprised that a young ProDomme knew nothing of aftercare and simply dropped the sub after getting her fee. However I do not believe that this is limited to young Pro's. I believe that you will find bad Pro's in all ages. I think aftercare is as important to play as play itself. The reason I write this post in such a self righteous manner, is because I feel that young Pro Dommes are grouped unfairly. To be honest I feel may pro's are grouped unfairly.  I know not many Pro's, young or otherwise take the care I do, but it still grates on one of my few remaining nerves to be grouped ( not necessarily here ) as a prostitute or clueless ninny, incapable of "knowing her ass from a hole in the ground."

Sincerely and respectfully put forth,
Texas



CrappyDom -> RE: A serious question (7/14/2006 11:37:22 PM)

Texas,

I apologize, I didn't mean to make it a blanket statement and I see now that I did.  Most here could read an ad from a pro and guess what level of experience they have.  I was refering to the ones who clearly are unsure of which end of a singltail to hold.



LadyHugs -> RE: A serious question (7/15/2006 12:21:25 AM)

Dear CrappyDom, MistressTexas, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
As the "lifestyle" and or "scene" has evolved--some of the issues have not and that is the Pro-dominant issue and what professionals call those who aren't "Pro-dominant" as amatures.
 
I am in no way an amature and much to a similarity to West coast vs. East coast; amature/non-professtional dominatrix vs. professional dominatrix still exists.
 
Problem is--Professional dominatrix know full well that they have problems within their own ranks, as some are dangerous and need to be removed until they get as trained as MistressTexas.  Unfortunately, MistressTexas--you're rare and not the common.  The only real pressure to change things are from fellow professional dominatrix, as those of the amature dominatrix or "Free-Dominatrix" would be seen as having a case of sour grapes.
 
It is my belief, that the 'spirit' of intent of CrappyDom's was to raise a sense of concern about young ones suddenly self imposed dominatrix for the sole intent to make it a financial/revenue engine and do so at the risk of harming others  (clients) and ruin what little remains of the 'community' respect and the ceaseless effort to educate and learn safe techniques.  The tribute dominatrix, the phone-dominatrix, web cam dominatrix, the college co-ed, who just wants a sugar Daddy--
 
Certainly as a whole, each provides a service to clients.  However, it is those among the ranks calling themselves 'professional' dominatrix that clearly pose a problem is an issue of how to separate the greedy and unsafe, from those who care about the clients and provide safe scenes.
 
Perhaps a council of Professional Dominatrix on this list may offer what they may have as far as how to separate from the 'old' label of Professional Dominatrix, e.g. association with prostitution, etc., to one that speaks to those who straddle serious lifestyle and professional dominatrix services.  A poor analogy but, perhaps helps the thoughts-- Housewife for as long as most can remember to the "Domestic Engineer," of the politically correct days.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 



CrappyDom -> RE: A serious question (7/15/2006 7:27:53 AM)

Ladyhugs,

Please don't attempt to define what I write, you don't have the ability and I don't have the patience for it.



DianeB -> RE: A serious question (7/15/2006 7:37:25 AM)

CrappyDom

Send me some pics of the toys you sell


Thanks

Diane



MistressTexas -> RE: A serious question (7/15/2006 2:41:34 PM)

CrappyDom, I didn't mean to rag on you, it was more a rant about the many posts flaming younger Pro's. I would love to see pictures of the toys you sell as well, perhaps a website? *apologizes to all for the thread hijack*




CrappyDom -> RE: A serious question (7/15/2006 9:08:58 PM)

I am too busy to do much at the moment but I have a new design for a humbler and CBT stuff that is so good the minute mine get out there everyone will copy them.  I have wanted one that is elegant but more importanly, one that can easily be released rather than tediously unthreading them.  I finally figured it out.

Anyway, if you are interested, contact me offlist as I feel awkward discussing it here.

Michael



AAkasha -> RE: A serious question (7/15/2006 10:37:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I post on another board that caters to pro-dommes and their clients as I sell toys and offer training to the dommes.  I have noticed (being the rocket scientist that I am) that those men who pay for it are willing to see 18-20 year old dommes and pay for services from someone who clearly can't yet know her ass from a hole in the ground (even more can be said for men at that age so that isn't a slap at women, just age).  In addition, those same men are NOT submitting, what they are doing is too toppy to even be considered topping from the bottom.

So, the question is, what do people think the motivation is to people to pay hundreds of dollars for what people here would call "fetish delivery" and what do those same men think they are doing?


I can't figure out if you are more jealous that these young ladies earn more than you do peddling your gear, or more jealous of the men that have the financial means to be in the company of these young, hot vixens.

Akasha



peterK50 -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 4:48:53 AM)

Please don't think I am comparing a Pro-Domme with a prostitute.........But..........someone once said, "Men Do Not Pay A`Woman For Sex, They Pay Her To Go Away". It's about a fear of commitment.



LeatherBentOne -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 6:40:11 AM)

AAkaska,

Um, I didnt get that impression from CrappyDom's post at all.  Where did your post come from and are you sure youre not speaking of yourself?  You seem to be the only one on this thread who suffers from insecurity.  Go find something to occupy your mind with.  You obvious dont have anything constructive to do.

LBO



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