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Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/8/2015 8:15:11 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		A friend is going through a nasty spell of depression, and I (being no stranger to that ailment myself) want to "be there" for him. He was the only one of my friends (from either DC or NYC) to trek to Philly when I had my cancer surgery there in October 2013.

But . . .

His relentless negativity is really starting to wear on me. I'm something of a whiner myself, and I need to stay as positive as I can while awaiting my next surgery. He's already feeling rejected after a surreal breakup and not getting a job he thought he was a shoo-in for, so I don't want to say, "Dude, call me in six months. Can't deal with the negatron!" I try answering his downer texts (our main medium these days) with positive ones of my own, but he just comes back with another wave of self-pity.

Him: It feels weird. It's the time change.
Me: I love springing forward! Tonight I walked home from the diner in light. :-)
Him: Speaking of the diner, I forgot to eat today. (He says he wants to become anorexic so he doesn't have to feel anything.)

Has anyone else faced a similar situation? If so, what worked for you?

Many thanks!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/8/2015 8:24:04 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Would he have any means of seeking a therapist? Or counseling? I'm pretty sure there are some good resources (and free ones!) out there for eating disorders- perhaps that would give him an appropriate place to share these feelings?

Eta- http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/find-help-support

< Message edited by shiftyw -- 3/8/2015 8:25:20 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/8/2015 8:28:17 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Sometimes is best just to commiserate.

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/8/2015 10:03:47 PM   
Kitsuneboi


Posts: 40
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Oceanside, CA
Status: offline 		Aye, my friends were all like that. Never had a nice thing to say for life in general everything was a complaint. But... joking helps. Like "Well, think of it this way, now you get the chance to complain about it. Something to talk about right? XD" Stuff like that. Or grabbing onto the negativity and finding the silver lining or find a way to put a bright spin on it. Sometimes we all need to vent and there are some helpful chat sites for it. I don't know if i can post one, but this: http://www.healthfulchat.org/depression-chat-room/login.html is the one I sometimes go to. Its a support chat site. And if your friend is feeling suicidal then they should call the suicide prevention help line.

The best way to support someone through hard times, in my experience is to always have a smile for them, and to allow them to be open to talk about anything. But when you yourself need support too, don't be afraid to say it. Ah, well, I hope that helps. I hope everything turns out well for your friend.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/8/2015 10:08:52 PM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		I've found in most of the cases I've dealt with, all you really need to do is be an ear.

If you try to offer advice, it's seen as trying to "solve" the issue, which usually incites anger (either because it won't work, or the thought was already considered, or, in some cases, because it actually might work).

If you try to draw an analogy to demonstrate that you understand, it's seen as a one-upmanship.

If you try to downplay it, the person feels invalidated.

As much as a person with a big heart wants to help, soothe, relate, these are things that a negative, or depressed, person cannot handle in most cases (again, I'm merely relating this to my own experiences). I would acknowledge but not engage. If your friend complains of your lack of involvement, it might be best to firmly yet politely reply: "I want to be a good friend for you, but I don't know how to be there for you in a way that is good for both you and I. I have to respectfully disagree with your point on [subject], but I still want to support you. What kind of support do you want?"

You're not a mind reader, nor should your friend expect you to be. Put the direction of dialogue on the friend, if they react badly to your natural responses then make them accountable for explaining what would help. In the process, I suspect they will learn to understand you better and hopefully appreciate what they discover. If not? No offense dc, but it's their loss. I know you from way back and can say you're a good person with a good heart. If your friend can't see that, then they really aren't being much of a friend.



< Message edited by RemoteUser -- 3/8/2015 10:09:34 PM >

_____________________________

There is nothing worse than being right. Instead of being right, then, try to be open. It is more difficult, and more rewarding.


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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/8/2015 10:50:39 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
I know your intention is to be upbeat, but you're coming across as impervious to his suffering.

Him: I feel miserable.
You: I feel great!!

Gee thanks, yanno? I understand that you want to be impervious to his negativity, but it isn't helping either of you. Face it, dc, what you've been going through sucks. You know it, and we know it. Own it. Then he won't bother you so much.

Him: I feel miserable.
You: That sucks.

Great, now you both agree that it sucks when things suck. Wonderful, who knew? Next topic?

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/8/2015 11:06:42 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 5:50:12 AM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I've found in most of the cases I've dealt with, all you really need to do is be an ear.

If you try to offer advice, it's seen as trying to "solve" the issue, which usually incites anger (either because it won't work, or the thought was already considered, or, in some cases, because it actually might work).

If you try to draw an analogy to demonstrate that you understand, it's seen as a one-upmanship.

If you try to downplay it, the person feels invalidated.

As much as a person with a big heart wants to help, soothe, relate, these are things that a negative, or depressed, person cannot handle in most cases (again, I'm merely relating this to my own experiences). I would acknowledge but not engage. If your friend complains of your lack of involvement, it might be best to firmly yet politely reply: "I want to be a good friend for you, but I don't know how to be there for you in a way that is good for both you and I. I have to respectfully disagree with your point on [subject], but I still want to support you. What kind of support do you want?"

You're not a mind reader, nor should your friend expect you to be. Put the direction of dialogue on the friend, if they react badly to your natural responses then make them accountable for explaining what would help. In the process, I suspect they will learn to understand you better and hopefully appreciate what they discover. If not? No offense dc, but it's their loss. I know you from way back and can say you're a good person with a good heart. If your friend can't see that, then they really aren't being much of a friend.




What a great post.

I've only once hit rock bottom and I've always said, the hardest thing was finding a listening ear and not someone who would come back at me with a whole heap of advise. I think advise can further burden those suffering from depression or anxiety because you feel as though you're expected to act on that advise and guilty that you can't. Advice can be such a hindrance when all you actually need is for someone to listen and understand.



_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to RemoteUser)
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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 7:45:16 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I've found in most of the cases I've dealt with, all you really need to do is be an ear.

If you try to offer advice, it's seen as trying to "solve" the issue, which usually incites anger (either because it won't work, or the thought was already considered, or, in some cases, because it actually might work).

If you try to draw an analogy to demonstrate that you understand, it's seen as a one-upmanship.

If you try to downplay it, the person feels invalidated.

As much as a person with a big heart wants to help, soothe, relate, these are things that a negative, or depressed, person cannot handle in most cases (again, I'm merely relating this to my own experiences). I would acknowledge but not engage. If your friend complains of your lack of involvement, it might be best to firmly yet politely reply: "I want to be a good friend for you, but I don't know how to be there for you in a way that is good for both you and I. I have to respectfully disagree with your point on [subject], but I still want to support you. What kind of support do you want?"

You're not a mind reader, nor should your friend expect you to be. Put the direction of dialogue on the friend, if they react badly to your natural responses then make them accountable for explaining what would help. In the process, I suspect they will learn to understand you better and hopefully appreciate what they discover. If not? No offense dc, but it's their loss. I know you from way back and can say you're a good person with a good heart. If your friend can't see that, then they really aren't being much of a friend.




What a great post.

I've only once hit rock bottom and I've always said, the hardest thing was finding a listening ear and not someone who would come back at me with a whole heap of advise. I think advise can further burden those suffering from depression or anxiety because you feel as though you're expected to act on that advise and guilty that you can't. Advice can be such a hindrance when all you actually need is for someone to listen and understand.




Agreed, great post.

From my own experience of when I do share- I'm not looking for advice unless I ask for it, I hate it with a passion when people tell me that there is always someone that has it worse, because I fucking know that already, but it's rude, and dismissive of what I'm going through as well as making me feel guilty, I don't want to hear about how great that person's life is right in that moment because I'm talking about me, and I'll listen all about you when it's your turn, I also don't want to hear 'a friend of a friend tried this miracle, and now they are cured, you should try it' because chances are I already have, or it's bull shit. all I want is a listening ear, a chance may be to vent, perhaps even cry, and maybe to even be acknowledged that I have the right to feel shit in the moment with my lot.

after I've had my moment, then we can move on to how great the other person's life is, or not as the case may be. I certainly don't ever want to hear from a so called friend that has said that I can, and should talk to them that they won't talk to me because of how things are for me. I had that last year, and it really pissed me off. if a person chooses not to share then fine, but don't use my life against me as a reason to not do it. I'm an adult, and i'll make my own mind up as to what I can cope with thank very much.

needles

_____________________________

I deserved better. Not than you, but from you.

(in reply to MariaB)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 8:01:57 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

A friend is going through a nasty spell of depression, and I (being no stranger to that ailment myself) want to "be there" for him. He was the only one of my friends (from either DC or NYC) to trek to Philly when I had my cancer surgery there in October 2013.

But . . .

His relentless negativity is really starting to wear on me. I'm something of a whiner myself, and I need to stay as positive as I can while awaiting my next surgery. He's already feeling rejected after a surreal breakup and not getting a job he thought he was a shoo-in for, so I don't want to say, "Dude, call me in six months. Can't deal with the negatron!" I try answering his downer texts (our main medium these days) with positive ones of my own, but he just comes back with another wave of self-pity.

Him: It feels weird. It's the time change.
Me: I love springing forward! Tonight I walked home from the diner in light. :-)
Him: Speaking of the diner, I forgot to eat today. (He says he wants to become anorexic so he doesn't have to feel anything.)

Has anyone else faced a similar situation? If so, what worked for you?

Many thanks!



I've been around people like that and you have one of two choices, either cut him out of your life, or embrace your friendship. My own experience is that some people just cannot be comforted or reasoned with when they are like that. No injection of sunshine in their lives is ever enough, they almost literally become emotional vampires, a great big giant black hole that sucks the energy from you. Those are the people that like to wallow in their own misery and trying to commiserate with them is like getting in a burning, sinking ship with them. Trying to be cheerful with them only makes it frustrating when they can only see blackness. I suffer from chronic depression, I have to find my bright spots, and that takes effort, and a willingness to see them. If they don't have that willingness to try, then any effort you make is doomed from the beginning. Harsh as it may sound, ultimately if you do cut them out of your life, it is an act of self-preservation.

If your friendship is worth it, then be the friend you know how to be. Sometimes those kinds of people just want an ear, or a form of validation to know that someone is listening to them. Try telling them that you understand how they feel, that you are feeling it too and that you want to try to help, but it is a struggle for you to help. Perhaps suggest that you both try to make an effort to encourage each other. If you find yourself at a loss for words at something they say, a simple, "I understand" sometimes says more than anything else you could possibly say. If things are too much for you to handle, then tell them that. Some of the best friendships I have are the ones where we have agreed to let one another know if things are too overwhelming and we need some space to sort through it all. Rough as things can be, those times are when you find out who is a true friend and who isn't.

Your situation, health, mental health and overall attitude are vital to your ability to heal and to endure what you are going through in your life. A good friend will understand those things and want to help if they can. A bad friend will only see themselves.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 8:43:58 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
That last sentence is so very true. And when you try to block negative feelings from entering your consciousness they don't go away, they just work on your body instead. In the final analysis, there is no other course than to find the strength to face them and stand up to them. I've been through some shit in my life, and for a while I put all the despair and fear into a box and sat on the lid. But whenever someone's else's misery threatened to knock me off my seat, I would either respond badly or behave like a polyanna -- trying to convince myself that those feeling weren't still there, or at least that I could keep them inside their little box.

It wasn't a good plan.

K.





< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/9/2015 9:01:09 AM >

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 10:37:21 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		dc... tell him you need real help...tell him you are depressed and you need cheering up so you don't give up. See how he responds... I've found a positive attitude even if not heart felt still helps relieve depression. So if he tries to cheer you up he will raise his own spirits. Then once he is feeling better then tell him how much his depression was wearing on you... This may stop him falling back into the negative mindset.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 7:26:27 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

My own experience is that some people just cannot be comforted or reasoned with when they are like that. No injection of sunshine in their lives is ever enough, they almost literally become emotional vampires, a great big giant black hole that sucks the energy from you. Those are the people that like to wallow in their own misery and trying to commiserate with them is like getting in a burning, sinking ship with them. Trying to be cheerful with them only makes it frustrating when they can only see blackness. I suffer from chronic depression, I have to find my bright spots, and that takes effort, and a willingness to see them. If they don't have that willingness to try, then any effort you make is doomed from the beginning.

I think you've nailed what's been getting to me. He often--though not always, to be fair--seems determined to stay miserable.

And, at the risk of seeming even pettier than I am, I confess it irks me to get a dozen woe-is-me texts with nary a "How are you?" at a time when my own challenges are nontrivial.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 9:41:01 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I think you've nailed what's been getting to me. He often--though not always, to be fair--seems determined to stay miserable.

And, at the risk of seeming even pettier than I am, I confess it irks me to get a dozen woe-is-me texts with nary a "How are you?" at a time when my own challenges are nontrivial.

Maybe he just assumes that you're fine, because you always are. Some of your posts here are so delightfully humorous that your situation comes across as more of an infernal annoyance than the devastating and frightening ordeal it must be for you. Moreover, from what you've said so far, your simmering resentment toward him seems a bigger problem than he is. And while I hate to say it, this looks a lot like a tango.

Assuming you'd like to keep your friend, let's look at another way to frame this interaction. There is a curious dynamic that sometimes arises where the more unremittingly positive one person gets, the more darkly negative the other becomes. It's almost as if there was some kind of mechanism at work, seeking to achieve a balance. If that's the dance here, you just might find that if you change your tune his will change too.

I don't know, but he sounds like a good friend and they don't grow on trees.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/9/2015 9:51:29 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/9/2015 9:53:48 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

I think you've nailed what's been getting to me. He often--though not always, to be fair--seems determined to stay miserable.

And, at the risk of seeming even pettier than I am, I confess it irks me to get a dozen woe-is-me texts with nary a "How are you?" at a time when my own challenges are nontrivial.

Maybe he just assumes that you're fine, because you always are. Some of your posts here are so delightfully humorous that your situation often comes across as more of an infernal annoyance than the devastating and frightening ordeal it must be for you. Moreover, from what you've said so far, your simmering resentment toward him seems a bigger problem than he is. And while I hate to say it, this looks a lot like a tango.

Assuming you'd like to keep your friend, let's look at another way to frame this interaction. There is a curious dynamic that sometimes arises where the more unremittingly positive one person gets, the more darkly negative the other becomes. It's almost as if there was some kind of mechanism at work, seeking to achieve a balance. It that's the dance here, you just might find that if you change your tune his will change too.

I don't know, but he sounds like a good friend and they don't grow on trees.

K.



I can relate, whole-heartedly.

I have a friend that, pretty much, only ever contacts me when they want to rant at the world and I'm the only one who'll listen (I'm texting them, on Skype, as I type this). That's fine and I'm happy to "serve" my fellow man. Occasionally, however, she'll catch me at a moment when I just have nothing left in the tank.

A few months ago, she called me and was going on for about two minutes about how a situation (which she refuses to change) is tearing her apart ...

When I got a chance to get a word in, I said (and it was true): "I fell down the stairs again, yesterday and my hip might be broken"

Silence (and the call didn't last for very long).



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/10/2015 12:29:29 AM   
LittleGirlHeart


Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline 		Yes, and I have even said I wasn't up to talking, but sometimes they don't respect that.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

A friend is going through a nasty spell of depression, and I (being no stranger to that ailment myself) want to "be there" for him. He was the only one of my friends (from either DC or NYC) to trek to Philly when I had my cancer surgery there in October 2013.

But . . .

His relentless negativity is really starting to wear on me. I'm something of a whiner myself, and I need to stay as positive as I can while awaiting my next surgery. He's already feeling rejected after a surreal breakup and not getting a job he thought he was a shoo-in for, so I don't want to say, "Dude, call me in six months. Can't deal with the negatron!" I try answering his downer texts (our main medium these days) with positive ones of my own, but he just comes back with another wave of self-pity.

Him: It feels weird. It's the time change.
Me: I love springing forward! Tonight I walked home from the diner in light. :-)
Him: Speaking of the diner, I forgot to eat today. (He says he wants to become anorexic so he doesn't have to feel anything.)

Has anyone else faced a similar situation? If so, what worked for you?

Many thanks!



_____________________________


We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/10/2015 12:39:11 AM   
LittleGirlHeart


Posts: 1427
Joined: 4/4/2013
Status: offline 		Are you ok?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I have a friend that, pretty much, only ever contacts me when they want to rant at the world and I'm the only one who'll listen (I'm texting them, on Skype, as I type this). That's fine and I'm happy to "serve" my fellow man. Occasionally, however, she'll catch me at a moment when I just have nothing left in the tank.

A few months ago, she called me and was going on for about two minutes about how a situation (which she refuses to change) is tearing her apart ...

When I got a chance to get a word in, I said (and it was true): "I fell down the stairs again, yesterday and my hip might be broken"

Silence (and the call didn't last for very long).



Michael[/color]



_____________________________


We'll fight, not out of spite
For someone must stand up for what's right
'Cause where there's a man who has no voice
There ours shall go singing

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/10/2015 4:01:36 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleGirlHeart

Are you ok?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I have a friend that, pretty much, only ever contacts me when they want to rant at the world and I'm the only one who'll listen (I'm texting them, on Skype, as I type this). That's fine and I'm happy to "serve" my fellow man. Occasionally, however, she'll catch me at a moment when I just have nothing left in the tank.

A few months ago, she called me and was going on for about two minutes about how a situation (which she refuses to change) is tearing her apart ...

When I got a chance to get a word in, I said (and it was true): "I fell down the stairs again, yesterday and my hip might be broken"

Silence (and the call didn't last for very long).



Michael




Very kind of you to ask!

My hip wasn't broken. I get around, okay, now but I was using those little carts in the grocery store, for a while.



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to LittleGirlHeart)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/10/2015 4:50:48 AM   
AlabamaPrincess


Posts: 134
Joined: 2/4/2015
From: The Dragon's Keep
Status: offline 		I feel ya OP. Had a girlfriend who, for 2 solid years was nothing but negativity, tears, and complaints over an ex husband who not only cheated on her, but then divorced her and was with another man. She wanted him back in her life, etc. Towards the end, I finally just said "I wish there was something I could say or do to make it better, but I got nothin" . When it was all said and done, I just ended up telling her I couldn't handle it anymore, and I was out. She was horribly pissed off, but I felt like a weight had been lifted. Probably not the best way to do it, but I was spent. I just couldn't handle it anymore.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/10/2015 5:55:00 AM   
satanscharmer


Posts: 376
Status: offline 		If it is depression your friend is facing, sounds like this is a cry for help and comfort from someone (you) that may have an understanding as to what he's going through, without judgement. When I'm depressed, I try to keep it all in for most everyone around me, spewing sunshine and rainbows - which requires a lot of excess energy that I don't have. If I thought someone was a good friend, someone I felt comfortable around, I might leak negative comments here and there, to one unfortunate soul, in an attempt to seek comfort. I usually don't even bother, though. Either people want to give advice, make it a competition of who has it worse, or respond in only positives which makes me feel like complete crap for several reasons. I would have loved to have had someone to talk to during my depressive states, but sadly spent those times incredibly alone.

You're going through a lot. It is completely understandable that you want to remain positive and need to be surrounded by positive energy. I don't want to downplay what your friend may be going through, because I don't know what he is going through. But, if you can't be there for him, then you can't. Explain it to him. That you are going through a lot and you're trying to stay positive. A true friend will understand your side.

If he's just a negative person, well that's something different. I try to stay clear of those people like the plague. They are emotional vampires that do suck you dry.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Dealing With a Negative Friend - 3/10/2015 6:07:02 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		DC, Invite your friend to take a walk through a Children's Hospital sometime. Those kids are the ones with real problems.

(in reply to satanscharmer)
Profile   Post #: 20
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