Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: US Military in Border Security


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: US Military in Border Security Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 5:49:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations?
Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so?
To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche.

I have offered a suggestion repeatedly.
Allow citizenship to families were the male members of the appropriate age (17 to 35) sign up as infantry for 8 years. They and the families are granted provisional citizenship till they complete the term. They would be paid at a lower rate than the citizens who sign up (for example they get paid as if they were two pay grades lower than their actual grade). This would accomplish three things.
A It would provide a path to citizenship
B It would make them earn their citizenship rather than just bumping them ahead of people who have obeyed the law.
C It would reduce the strain on the defense budget.

I don't agree with the provision that they be paid a lower rate, but I do think they should get expedited immigration proceedings if they serve honorably.

I would be ok with that, I would say though that they had to join combat arms.


I'd be okay with that, even if they never see actual combat time (like peacetime service).


Of course, it wouldn't be their fault if there wasn't a war, and I am not suggesting we use them like the Soviet penal battalions. In fact I wouldn't even say they should have their own units.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 5:54:09 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Try to live in REALITY.

(1) The border is not open. Crossing it is a dangerous proposition.

(2) You can't completely seal the border.

(3) People looking for hope and opportunity will continue to come to the USA; the moment that ceases is a moment you know something is gravely wrong with the country.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 6:12:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Try to live in REALITY.

(1) The border is not open. Crossing it is a dangerous proposition.

(2) You can't completely seal the border.

(3) People looking for hope and opportunity will continue to come to the USA; the moment that ceases is a moment you know something is gravely wrong with the country.

They set up comfort stations for illegals how open can you get.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:07:09 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations?

Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so?


That's really the main issue. I suppose it's technically possible to deport that many people, but it would be exceedingly expensive and create an AWFUL lot of tension with our neighbor to the south. It would also create tensions on this side of the border among a very large (legal) Latino population for whom this issue hits too close to home.

One night I was heading home, and saw quite a few Border Patrol vehicles in the city with their sirens and lights on, heading somewhere in a hurry. It turned out that there was damn near a riot when the local police pulled someone over and called the Border Patrol to check on his immigration status. Passers by could see what was going on and started surrounding the scene and asking the cops what were they doing and why. It ended more or less peacefully, but it could have gone either way.

But they were clearly upset about the possible deportation of just one person. To go after 11 million - that's going to anger a lot of people and could cause the border and the entire Southwestern USA to explode in chaos. Then we really would need the military to restore order.

quote:


To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche.


Just curious, how has Australia handled immigration historically? When I was a kid, I remember hearing that they only allowed white immigrants to Australia, but I understand that policy was rescinded?

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:17:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations?

Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so?


That's really the main issue. I suppose it's technically possible to deport that many people, but it would be exceedingly expensive and create an AWFUL lot of tension with our neighbor to the south. It would also create tensions on this side of the border among a very large (legal) Latino population for whom this issue hits too close to home.

One night I was heading home, and saw quite a few Border Patrol vehicles in the city with their sirens and lights on, heading somewhere in a hurry. It turned out that there was damn near a riot when the local police pulled someone over and called the Border Patrol to check on his immigration status. Passers by could see what was going on and started surrounding the scene and asking the cops what were they doing and why. It ended more or less peacefully, but it could have gone either way.

But they were clearly upset about the possible deportation of just one person. To go after 11 million - that's going to anger a lot of people and could cause the border and the entire Southwestern USA to explode in chaos. Then we really would need the military to restore order.

quote:


To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche.


Just curious, how has Australia handled immigration historically? When I was a kid, I remember hearing that they only allowed white immigrants to Australia, but I understand that policy was rescinded?


But they were clearly upset about the possible deportation of just one person. To go after 11 million - that's going to anger a lot of people and could cause the border and the entire Southwestern USA to explode in chaos. Then we really would need the military to restore order.


If we have to let them dictate what we do isn't this a call for surrender?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:23:58 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Try to live in REALITY.

(1) The border is not open. Crossing it is a dangerous proposition.

(2) You can't completely seal the border.

(3) People looking for hope and opportunity will continue to come to the USA; the moment that ceases is a moment you know something is gravely wrong with the country.

They set up comfort stations for illegals how open can you get.


Do you mean the water barrels that some church groups put out in various sections around the desert? That was primarily a humanitarian act because of all the deaths from heat and a lack of water. They were coming anyway, regardless of whether the "comfort stations" were there or not, but there were those who thought that it could save lives. They weren't at the border either, but some distance further in.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:27:56 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If we have to let them dictate what we do isn't this a call for surrender?


Not necessarily, but I think it should be mentioned just so people know exactly what the ramifications could be. How far do we want to go? Or, as Sean Connery asked Kevin Costner in The Untouchables, "What are you prepared to do?"

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:30:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If we have to let them dictate what we do isn't this a call for surrender?


Not necessarily, but I think it should be mentioned just so people know exactly what the ramifications could be. How far do we want to go? Or, as Sean Connery asked Kevin Costner in The Untouchables, "What are you prepared to do?"

Whatever is necessary.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:42:15 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:45:02 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too.

lol

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:55:04 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too.


That coyote is really a crazy clown, and all that stuff is made by the ACME Corporation, so it's guaranteed not to work.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 7:59:47 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too.


That coyote is really a crazy clown, and all that stuff is made by the ACME Corporation, so it's guaranteed not to work.



ROFLMAO yup

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/12/2015 8:38:50 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too.


That coyote is really a crazy clown, and all that stuff is made by the ACME Corporation, so it's guaranteed not to work.



Zonie wins with a knock out punch!
The thing I like about you Zonie, is you can chat about this subject without calling those that disagree/or have divergent opinions, "racist", "bigots", etc.
You rock!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/13/2015 2:03:43 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		For reference; current requirements for immigration to the U.S. can be found at:
http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-procedures/green-card-eligibility

I can see the fear that undocumented aliens may contain a desperate criminal element. I can see the point of empathy for impoverished people to enter the U.S. where they will be safer and have a chance at a decent living.

A blanket absolution of the immigration requirements for a large undocumented alien population doesn't play well as a permanent solution. How and how much reform of immigration requirements is a hard subject to find a consensus on.

But the real politic is that the corruption in the process of sneaking into the country and the taking advantage of undocumented aliens once they are here is not going to go away with any quick political fix.

Out of curiosity, has anyone reading these forums ever sponsored a person for a visa?

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/13/2015 4:15:05 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I have Merc Married her and brought her to this country. She has since returned to her country. The process is long and somewhat crazy.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/13/2015 4:46:50 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I have Merc Married her and brought her to this country. She has since returned to her country. The process is long and somewhat crazy.

I can not see any justification for making it easier for people who come here illegally than for people who follow the law.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/13/2015 5:39:53 AM   
Kittenluv954


Posts: 237
Joined: 3/18/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

For reference; current requirements for immigration to the U.S. can be found at:
http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-procedures/green-card-eligibility

I can see the fear that undocumented aliens may contain a desperate criminal element. I can see the point of empathy for impoverished people to enter the U.S. where they will be safer and have a chance at a decent living.

A blanket absolution of the immigration requirements for a large undocumented alien population doesn't play well as a permanent solution. How and how much reform of immigration requirements is a hard subject to find a consensus on.

But the real politic is that the corruption in the process of sneaking into the country and the taking advantage of undocumented aliens once they are here is not going to go away with any quick political fix.

Out of curiosity, has anyone reading these forums ever sponsored a person for a visa?


my sister did. married an albanian who defected from his soccer team on a nearly expired visa. he stayed married to her exactly as long as legally required, went to albania for a month, and came home asking for a divorce. really nice guy, and working under the table for his brother so he can avoid paying taxes makes him a real asset to this country. i live in south florida, and the immigrants have turned the place into a fucking toilet. anyone seen miami lately? lol i say send them all back on their banana boats. we wont miss them.

< Message edited by Kittenluv954 -- 3/13/2015 6:01:30 AM >

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/13/2015 8:39:27 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Bama I agree with you. The process is the process and should be followed so that all have the opportunity to immigrate legally.

Kitten. That happens all to often. Especially within the Military who bring brides home from overseas. I have seen it over andover.

(in reply to Kittenluv954)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/13/2015 9:27:28 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		But everybody is arguing the expensive and untenable route we have been following since 1924. hunt down and grab up individuals, which is a civil matter, rather than incarcerating and draconian fines for the root cause of the problem, employers of illegal aliens which is both civil and criminal.

We could cut our force considerably by raiding and draconian measures to those who hire them, and the fines would pay for enforcement. And the resulting publicity, and public shaming, as well as the destruction and parting out of of those criminal enterprises would create an unwillingness in the white collar criminal to continue it.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: US Military in Border Security - 3/13/2015 9:40:23 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		One problem with illegals joining the military. When I was doing security clearences, and it could well have changed since then but I doubt it, a foreign citizen (even one legally in the country) could not obtain a security clearance, until they became a US citizen. This limits both their promotion and assignment posibilities. This was done because they still owe their alligience to whatever country they came from (at least as I understand it from a legal standpoint).

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: US Military in Border Security Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109