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RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 11:12:56 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/23/supreme-court-wisconsin_n_6923170.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-to-wisconsin-voter-id-law.html?_r=0

SCOTUS today refused to hear the case of Voter ID requirements in Wisconsin which the Court of Appeals said was constitutional.

I personally agree that setting up this requirement is a good idea. It prevents several issues.



You're a mean person that doesn't want to see people that entered the country illegally, who drain our economy, who have no intention of leaving until they've sucked enough milk at our teat to have a say in further destroying the country they've "invaded".

Shame on you, sir! [/sarcasm]



Michael

We can't get actual citizens to vote in this country and your side peddles this nonsense ?
The fact that you people buy it says so much about so many Republican voters.
Imagine, a political party afraid of voters

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 11:15:17 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Sheesh,Voter ID...a solution in search of a problem.
Nothing more.


as its the left who seemingly overwhelmingly benefits from voter fraud, its easy to see how you could say this.

although, one could hope for more intellectual honesty and a sense of fairness...

Tell you what.....prove that.
Come back with any credible citation that demonstrates large scale voter fraud.

Otherwise accept the fact that you have been fed bullshit and you are sitting at the table asking for a second helping.
You have my sincere sympathy...you really do.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 11:18:14 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

So y'all are going back to the 30s to prove there is rampant voter fraud....85 years ago......
and you have proof of voter fraud in huge numbers in the 21st century , where?




Forget it Lucy,the proof "exists" solely in the head of right wing radio talk show hosts......in the real world political parties try to attract voters with promises of policy and agenda.....Right wing world they try to disenfranchise as many as possible.
If they could hold the next Presidential election in a phone booth,they might,might I say,have a chance of winning.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 11:20:05 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

lol... Lucy ...opinion now...but I will bet, my new desert oasis anyway, in the next five years we will see an increase in the percent of voters among the groups many have claimed these laws would suppress. There is a new awakening in these groups and it will be reflected in the vote. I also don't believe voter ID's will reveal widespread voter fraud... To me this was all a bunch of political crap with no real effect on anything... A waste of time to implement and a waste of time to oppose.

Butch



Then why are you hailing it's implementation ?
I'm not sure what you are saying here Butch.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 11:40:03 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Mike I am saying if these laws make conservatives think they will make a difference in the vote or give votes integrity then I say good for them. What I do not believe is that it will make minorities or the poor less likely to vote.

If a voter can not make the effort to get an ID then they do not deserve to have a say in their government... they would be incompetent or down right lazy. I do not think, as some must believe, that just because you are a minority or poor you don't have the sense or desire to get a voter ID. To me this idea is insulting.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 11:55:55 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Okay,I understand you now and I can almost see that point of view.
On the other hand a lot of time is being wasted,a lot of money is being wasted(programs being set up so as not to disenfranchise folks)and all to,as you say ,assuage the fears of right wing radio hosts and their conservative audience and still no one,I repeat,no one has ever been able to offer any credible evidence of a problem.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:23:55 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

disenfranchise folks


Mike.. the above is what i think is crap... id's do no such thing. They may cause a very small part of the population a slight inconvenience but for those that think voting is important it will NOT disenfranchise them.

Your way if thinking is like saying... I'm black and poor that means I am too stupid to get an ID... I don't have transportation so I am too dumb to figure a way to apply for an ID... Or I am old so I must be incompetent and not able to get an ID... Or I am not a conservative so I am too lazy to get an ID.

None of the above is true and that being said makes opposition to ID's political bullshit... or you really do think the above is true... or you are just against the idea because it comes from Republicans.

Any reasonable precaution to assure fair elections is worth the effort.... even if YOU think it is not needed.

By the way... how is a requirement for a photo ID for instance going to cost A LOT of money? It's not at all.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/24/2015 12:29:00 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:30:26 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Whether or not you think t's crap ...localities are indeed spending money to make sure those without valid DL's and such have the required picture ID"s.
We don't have to believe it's an issue for it to happen....hell,there's no fraud yet this shit happens.
The whole thing is made up for ratings and to scare the base.


_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:31:35 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/23/supreme-court-wisconsin_n_6923170.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-to-wisconsin-voter-id-law.html?_r=0

SCOTUS today refused to hear the case of Voter ID requirements in Wisconsin which the Court of Appeals said was constitutional.

I personally agree that setting up this requirement is a good idea. It prevents several issues.


Seems disappointing, but not all together unexpected. With five conservative justices pushing the GOP's political views in the Judicial branch; the 'Robert's Court' has shown to side with the GOP rather than anyone else. Even with evidence in hand (as seen on these forums time and again), that shows voter ID laws have not improved the voting turn out, but has disenfranchised voters (meaning, less have turned out). I do not expect to see the Court weigh in on this issue until at least after the next general election. The GOP has to milked their unconstitutional viewpoint as much as possible.

When the US Supreme Court votes over political matters rather than constitutional ones; bad things tend to happen. They are the one group whom is suppose to stay out of politics all together!

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:34:26 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

.localities are indeed spending money to make sure those without valid DL's and such have the required picture ID"s


How?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:35:59 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/23/supreme-court-wisconsin_n_6923170.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/us/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-to-wisconsin-voter-id-law.html?_r=0

SCOTUS today refused to hear the case of Voter ID requirements in Wisconsin which the Court of Appeals said was constitutional.

I personally agree that setting up this requirement is a good idea. It prevents several issues.



You're a mean person that doesn't want to see people that entered the country illegally, who drain our economy, who have no intention of leaving until they've sucked enough milk at our teat to have a say in further destroying the country they've "invaded".

Shame on you, sir! [/sarcasm]

Michael


You forgot the zombies that are long dead.


Yeah. I was saving that for another post!
Michael


And the space aliens. You know, the ones from off planet? And those coming through a 'time & space' portal dimension. And those stopping by from Asgard and Heaven and Hell. I'd like some of those who support Voter ID, to tell God, he cant vote because he's not American.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:37:41 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
or who have forgotten they voted once and so have to go back to vote again...

and again...


How often has that happened, bounty? Please give a factual answer, since I do have the facts on voter ID suppression in the United States.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:38:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

.localities are indeed spending money to make sure those without valid DL's and such have the required picture ID"s


How?

Butch



Quite often you will see in America people handing out IDs for free. The plastic is no cost to anyone, the photographic equipment, the manufacture, the mag reading strip and so on......


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:40:13 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		ID's are free ?
The processing of said ID's are done by civil service employees who are paid a salary....hence money
Longer lines at polls which again hold down voting.
The cost is there Butch.
It's not that the idea came from Republicans ,it's that the idea is stupid...no matter who came up with it.
I don't think it's worth the FIRST dollar spent on ,never mind the second and the third,so on and so forth.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:45:59 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Sheesh,Voter ID...a solution in search of a problem.
Nothing more.

as its the left who seemingly overwhelmingly benefits from voter fraud, its easy to see how you could say this.

although, one could hope for more intellectual honesty and a sense of fairness...


Actually, when one interjects facts into a belief system, they find the belief system has many holes to it. That is why we research things, bounty. To understand what is fact and what is superstitious bullshit. The view of the GOP was the reason they lost was due to 'massive voter fraud' in 2008 and 2012. This forum has seen quite a few threads on the subject matter. In each case, the facts were shown. Each accusation from the conservative and libertarian wings of this nation was debunked by solid research. The number of actual voter fraud in the United States is extremely low compared to the wild accusations of the right wing in the nation. To the point of having to seriously ask "Where in hell did you get your information?". Funny how we never get the source of such information....

Because if we are requiring intellectual honesty here, conservatives and libertarians don't have a leg to stand on with Voter ID laws. There is what you say its suppose to do, and then there is the reality of what you desire. Its not to check on voters, but to suppress those who don't vote the way the GOP/TP wants. That in polls with such laws, voting has declined rather than rise.

The higher-ups in the GOP/TP understand that if few people vote, the GOP/TP win. If many people vote, Democrats win elections. This has been observed by many on both sides of the isle over the years. So what does the GOP/TP have to gain by creating a situation that entices more people to vote?

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:47:00 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Ron every state has licencing offices already equipped to take and print photo id's... so do most all city,county, and state offices... the structure is there and would not require large expenditures of money. Cost is not a good excuse in my opinion anyway.

Hell it takes a picture ID just to get into my local city's swimming pool and the ID's are made when the pass is purchased on the site... no problem and little cost.... And remember it would only be required of those not already in possession of an approved ID... that is very few.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/24/2015 12:48:55 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:53:43 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
quote:

.localities are indeed spending money to make sure those without valid DL's and such have the required picture ID"s


How?

Butch

Quite often you will see in America people handing out IDs for free. The plastic is no cost to anyone, the photographic equipment, the manufacture, the mag reading strip and so on......


That's not entirely true. Most localities, understanding of the tyrannical law they have allowed on to their books, place a dollar amount of money aside to help those that don't have a proper and valid ID. Money that could be spent on more useful programs and projects, or even cut from the budget all together.

BUT...

Its the duty of this government, to help the citizens into voting. A voting law whose purpose is doing the opposite. And placed into law by fear and ignorance, rather than fact and study. Its understood by the many studies so far that voter fraud is so low as to be considered 'irrelevant' in state and federal elections. Each time conservatives and libertarians have pushed 'massive voter fraud' it shares two things: all the votes went to Democrats, and all of it was a massive conspiracy. When people have researched the evidence, the fought much of it was full of bullshit. In other words, debunked.

I enjoy the 'limited government' types the most here. The ones that push this absurd legal idea onto their fellow Americans. That it costs the government more in resources, yet the benefit is non-existent. More so, it is government's intrusion into the personal lives of Americans. Two concepts that the 'Limited Government' types state they are against, EXCEPT, when it favors their political viewpoint.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:54:15 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Cost is neither here nor there. There is a constitutional amendment prohibiting poll taxes. If my money goes to pay for free ID then I am paying a poll tax.

I think it is equivalent to having armories in cities into which you put your guns and ammo, and check them in and out, only as needed and with citation of use. Not taking your guns away, your right to bear arms is still there.......................doesnt cost anything, and it is such a minor inconveinience.....

Whatcha think?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:58:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike I am saying if these laws make conservatives think they will make a difference in the vote or give votes integrity then I say good for them. What I do not believe is that it will make minorities or the poor less likely to vote.

If a voter can not make the effort to get an ID then they do not deserve to have a say in their government... they would be incompetent or down right lazy. I do not think, as some must believe, that just because you are a minority or poor you don't have the sense or desire to get a voter ID. To me this idea is insulting.

Butch

In Georgia the percent of black registered voter who voted increased substantially AFTER voter ID took effect so the vote suppression argument holds no water.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: SCOTUS and the Wisconsin Voter ID Law - 3/24/2015 12:59:59 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Ron every state has licencing offices already equipped to take and print photo id's... so do most all city,county, and state offices... the structure is there and would not require large expenditures of money. Cost is not a good excuse in my opinion anyway.

Hell it takes a picture ID just to get into my local city's swimming pool and the ID's are made when the pass is purchased on the site... no problem and little cost.... And remember it would only be required of those not already in possession of an approved ID... that is very few.


An yet it violates the 4th amendment protection against unreasonable search and seizure. That the government can force you to show ID directly to them without question or hesitation. Unlike say a location that sells alcohol, were you show ID to a third party as required by government. That you have to prove your 'Who you are' and 'Where you live'. That you are considered breaking a law and thus guilty and must prove your innocence. Last I checked, that's the opposite viewpoint of the US Legal System.

That the US Supreme Court, whom is suppose to be the highest power of legal decision making based on laws; ignores this. Not for Constitutional reasons, but political ones. No good can come of it.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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