RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone

RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (Full Version)

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PeonForHer -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 12:12:36 PM)
quote: Did you seriously use the "if you hate freedom.." line? that's pretty troll tier. Yup, I did use that line. That word 'freedom' is chucked around so much and so thoughtlessly that it deserved to be used in that way the better to make the point. quote: If you love freedom so much, why are you in favour of forcing anyone to do something against their will? especially when, as already explained, there are natural consequences for their actions. The same could be said to you: why would you want to force someone to go and shop elsewhere? One person's freedom can and in this case does mean the loss of a freedom for someone else.

joether -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 12:30:42 PM)
Bounty, There is a big difference between Christians and pseudo-Christians. The first group desire to help make a better community of people. A better state, a better nation, and yes, a better world. They selflessly help others. Donate their time and resources to various causes that help the elderly, the poor, the homeless, those that suffer, and those treated like shit by the rest of society. They dont push their religion, and are often very patient around those that lack knowledge and insight on what they do. These people dislike politicians whom do things to push hatred, agony, suffering, and destruction onto people. More so of the politicians whom do so for fun and glee! These people don't really vote Republican/Tea Party at the state or national levels anymore. There are Republicans at the local levels that are good people. Whom think the state and nation levels are totally nuts. Then we have Pseudo-Christians. As ISIS is to Islam, so to is this group of Fake Christians to Christianity. They use the Holy Bible to attack other people; and when the shit storm shifts back at them, hide behind their holy book. Its a 'freedom' to diminish, destroy, undermine, attack, and even behave like an asshole, to other people. These people care not of some punk called 'Jesus Christ'. Nor do they care about the homeless, the suffering, the ill, the elderly, and anyone on the receiving end of the very stuff they love to sling! If they had a choice between giving $10 to a Republican/Tea Party organization at the national level, or $10,000 to help the homeless; they would happily give the $10 dollars to the GOP/TP without a second thought. That you cant seem to understand this difference, shows. The real Christians in this nation want this law by Gov. Pence to be removed, not just fixed or adjusted. They are tired of having their religion hijacked by the enemies of Jesus Christ. Because they understand, these pseudo-Christians create many reasons for others to leave the faith all together. They now understand how those of the Islamic faith have to handle dumb Americans not able to understand the differences. Each of the big religious all are about peaceful co-existence with one's neighbors and self. That they depend on cooperation and tolerance in communities. And, each faith can be used for destructive viewpoints. I'm happy to be around Christians. They restore some of the faith that has been completely cut down by pseudo-Christians. You know what Christians want, Bounty? For others around them to live in health and happy times. You know what the pseudo-Christians want? To get in to Heaven, the fuck with anyone and anything else. Which is why you'll find plenty of pseudo-Christians in the libertarian philosophic 'camps' across the nation. Being 'as selfish of a dickhead as possible' seems reoccurring thought process in both pseudo-Christians and libertarians (with about half those whom are conservative).

joether -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 12:44:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Twenty years ago was an entirely different world. Don't ask, don't tell seemed like a good idea then too. I think Clinton was right that the country wasn't ready to fully embrace many gay rights issues at the time. But I don't think he could have even imagined that it would take us this long to make the few steps we have. In a lot of ways, things are moving faster than I ever could have hoped. I'm still trying to wrap my head around being able to legally get married. It may seem that way to you but things really weren't that different 20 years ago unless you are talking only about technology. People were pretty much the same. But I will give you credit for coming up with a new excuse for billy boy. That's one I hadn't heard before. Still bullshit, but new bullshit. Much has changed in twenty years: 4/19/95..... 9/11/01..... We elected a black man to the White House. We as humans have mapped not just the Moon but Mars, Mercury, and several asteroids. We can treat a greater number of conditions that put suffering on the human body. Were as once it cost me several dollars to talk to a friend in Europe by phone, is now a live feed that cost me nothing. Music has evolved from artists twenty years ago. In the political arena, gay people are not seen as weirdos, but ordinary Americans like everyone else. DOMA was struck down, as was the state versions in 34 states and counting. We now have a national healthcare system for all Americans. We are about to have a lady in the White House as a US President The initial ideas of Common Core were formed. Now we understand its effectively. The GOP/TP once had some good ideas, now they have *NOTHING*! I could go on-and-on about the difference the last twenty years has brought to this nation. But the above examples should show that the culture and viewpoints of 'then' are different in ways to 'now'.

JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 1:30:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV Twenty years ago was an entirely different world. Don't ask, don't tell seemed like a good idea then too. I think Clinton was right that the country wasn't ready to fully embrace many gay rights issues at the time. But I don't think he could have even imagined that it would take us this long to make the few steps we have. In a lot of ways, things are moving faster than I ever could have hoped. I'm still trying to wrap my head around being able to legally get married. It may seem that way to you but things really weren't that different 20 years ago unless you are talking only about technology. People were pretty much the same. But I will give you credit for coming up with a new excuse for billy boy. That's one I hadn't heard before. Still bullshit, but new bullshit. People's opinions about gays have certainly changed. http://www.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx

CreativeDominant -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 1:50:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u They were asked to make a wedding cake.......for a gay wedding ,not participate nor condone the actual ceremony. You do realize the cake comes out at the reception,no ? Not as if the cake is part of the wedding ceremony that they claim is sacrosanct. And you do understand that it doesn't matter when the cake comes out? It is a wedding cake...done in celebration of a gay wedding...And by making the cake, the baker has provided something for...thereby participated in...an event that his religious belief says is wrong. They're not claiming the ceremony is sacrosanct...they're claiming MARRIAGE is. But you knew that...didn't you?

dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 1:52:51 PM)
quote: Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Must admit my first response was, "Who serves pizza at a wedding?" [:)]

CreativeDominant -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 2:04:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Did you seriously use the "if you hate freedom.." line? that's pretty troll tier. Yup, I did use that line. That word 'freedom' is chucked around so much and so thoughtlessly that it deserved to be used in that way the better to make the point. quote: If you love freedom so much, why are you in favour of forcing anyone to do something against their will? especially when, as already explained, there are natural consequences for their actions. The same could be said to you: why would you want to force someone to go and shop elsewhere? One person's freedom can and in this case does mean the loss of a freedom for someone else. What freedom...other than to have things THEIR way...has been lost? What beliefs do they have to go against by shopping else where?

PeonForHer -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 2:18:11 PM)
The belief that one person's custom is as good as another in a free society, maybe? But it's hardly just about 'beliefs'. The phrase that Oneechan used, and what I was arguing against, was 'forced against their will' - this being implicitly the opposite to 'free'. I'm assuming that potential customers will be forced against their will to go to other shops.

stef -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 2:46:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Must admit my first response was, "Who serves pizza at a wedding?" [:)] Heh, that was my first thought too then I considered that it is Indiana...

stef -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 2:59:18 PM)
Fucking priceless. Too cheap to reserve your company's name with a domain registrar? This is what happens. http://www.memoriespizza.com/

mnottertail -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 3:03:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u They were asked to make a wedding cake.......for a gay wedding ,not participate nor condone the actual ceremony. You do realize the cake comes out at the reception,no ? Not as if the cake is part of the wedding ceremony that they claim is sacrosanct. And you do understand that it doesn't matter when the cake comes out? It is a wedding cake...done in celebration of a gay wedding...And by making the cake, the baker has provided something for...thereby participated in...an event that his religious belief says is wrong. They're not claiming the ceremony is sacrosanct...they're claiming MARRIAGE is. But you knew that...didn't you? Then these guys can be credibly cited that at 50 years they give back everything they profited from for the jubilee? Just gonna be rainin cash outta that motherfucker, hah?

CreativeDominant -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 3:11:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer The belief that one person's custom is as good as another in a free society, maybe? But it's hardly just about 'beliefs'. The phrase that Oneechan used, and what I was arguing against, was 'forced against their will' - this being implicitly the opposite to 'free'. I'm assuming that potential customers will be forced against their will to go to other shops. How about "forced by their own beliefs and the beliefs of the shop owner" to go elsewhere?

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 3:18:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr "We've lived your way for over 200 years, in this country. We say we want equality, but now, we want you to live our way" The multi-billion dollar Gay Rights Lobby WHen you can actually attribute a quote to someone outside your imagination, we may want to consider taking you seriously. Really ? I think I need to call "hard limit" on that proposition.

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 3:22:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton said theirs is a "Christian establishment" and that they agree with Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has come under fire after signing the bill, which allows business owners to cite religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party, ABC 57 reported. “That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual," Kevin O'Connor told the news station. "They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” O'Connor's daughter Crystal said she didn't think that the bill was "targeting gays," adding, "It's supposed to help people that have a religious belief." In a separate interview with The Daily Beast, O'Connor clarified that although he doesn't "have a problem with gay people," he does not condone same-sex marriage. Although he wouldn't cater to a same-sex wedding, he wouldn't turn anyone away from the shop itself. “I mean, we don’t believe in murder. I also don’t believe in abortion,” he added. Indiana's law has been slammed by political figures and celebrities alike. Stephen King, George Takei and Miley Cyrus are just a few of the bold-faced names to have condemned the legislation thus far. Meanwhile, Pence has since called for an amendment to clarify that the legislation does not allow businesses to deny service to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people. I don't think the above Pizza owner has to worry about whether he serves gays or not. I have a feeling there will be a dearth of customers from the LGBT community eating his pizza.

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 3:26:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u They were asked to make a wedding cake.......for a gay wedding ,not participate nor condone the actual ceremony. You do realize the cake comes out at the reception,no ? Not as if the cake is part of the wedding ceremony that they claim is sacrosanct. And you do understand that it doesn't matter when the cake comes out? It is a wedding cake...done in celebration of a gay wedding...And by making the cake, the baker has provided something for...thereby participated in...an event that his religious belief says is wrong. They're not claiming the ceremony is sacrosanct...they're claiming MARRIAGE is. But you knew that...didn't you? So your position is that not only does the cake maker not want to bake the cake.....he would prefer they had no opportunity to wed at all. So in your view it's a bit more than not wanting to be involved,it's a backlash against the progress the LGBT community has made. Good to know.

dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 3:36:45 PM)
quote: And you do understand that it doesn't matter when the cake comes out? It is a wedding cake...done in celebration of a gay wedding...And by making the cake, the baker has provided something for...thereby participated in...an event that his religious belief says is wrong. They're not claiming the ceremony is sacrosanct...they're claiming MARRIAGE is. I wonder if they do cakes for divorced folks embarking on second marriages. Or couples marrying in secular rather than religious settings.

PeonForHer -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 3:44:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer The belief that one person's custom is as good as another in a free society, maybe? But it's hardly just about 'beliefs'. The phrase that Oneechan used, and what I was arguing against, was 'forced against their will' - this being implicitly the opposite to 'free'. I'm assuming that potential customers will be forced against their will to go to other shops. How about "forced by their own beliefs and the beliefs of the shop owner" to go elsewhere? In this case 'forced by their own beliefs' implies 'forced to believe that they, as gays, are as valuable and worthy of respect, as heterosexuals'. Well, put it this way: If I were gay, I'd feel affronted. It wouldn't make it any less insulting - in fact, if anything, it'd be worse - if the person giving the insult were to say, 'It's nothing personal, it's my religion'. Are you at all overweight, CD? I have no idea. But if so, how would you feel if a shopkeeper were to say to you, 'I'm sorry, my religion doesn't approve of gluttony. You're clearly a fatty, so you'll have to shop elsewhere. No offence.' (I mean, it's as clear as frigging day that the Bible doesn't approve of gluttony. Much clearer, in fact, than that it doesn't approve of homosexuality. So, in theory, this could actually happen, given a certain sort of Christian - though we all know that it won't - because religions normally manage somehow not to take too much notice of the bits in their sacred texts that offend majorities, or the powerful, in any given society. They're agreeably elastic in that way.) Me, in that position, I'd feel like saying, 'No offence taken. Unfortunately, my religion requires me to give you a punch in the face because it says that you're an arse. No offence meant.'

dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 4:03:21 PM)
quote: religions normally manage somehow not to take too much notice of the bits in their sacred texts that offend majorities, or the powerful, in any given society. That's often true for biblical teachings about money: 4 Maccabees 2:8 Thus, as soon as one adopts a way of life in accordance with the law, even though a lover of money, one is forced to act contrary to natural ways and to lend without interest to the needy and to cancel the debt when the seventh year arrives. Luke 6:34-35a And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

Politesub53 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 4:03:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic these are not seen by the unbelievers cos they have the people with the actual information on hide... ^5

Politesub53 -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 4:07:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Arkansas just passed the same law, surely the home of the Clintons can't be bigots. Its not even been passed and it wont even be the fucking same...... How many more times ?

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