RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone

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thishereboi -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 6:03:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: seems like you can find hate on both sides if you look. What are the "sides" on this topic? Well in this case I guess it would be those who feel a business owner should be able to refuse to bake a cake and those who feel he shouldn't. At least that is how I see it.

thishereboi -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 6:16:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Must admit my first response was, "Who serves pizza at a wedding?" [:)] and you are not alone in that... http://www.tmz.com/2015/04/01/memories-pizza-closes-indiana-deny-service-gay-wedding/ "Indiana's controversial law has raised a lot of questions, not the least of which is ... what gay wedding would hire a pizza place to cater?"

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 6:31:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR Does anyone know when the last RFRA bill prior to Indiana's was passed? I tried researching it, but struck out. it seems there have been a rash of them since the Hobby Lobby ruling where the court said the federal law did not cover in state situations.

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 6:34:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Must admit my first response was, "Who serves pizza at a wedding?" [:)] Followed by, thank god they aren't as bigoted as Christians.

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 6:37:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer The belief that one person's custom is as good as another in a free society, maybe? But it's hardly just about 'beliefs'. The phrase that Oneechan used, and what I was arguing against, was 'forced against their will' - this being implicitly the opposite to 'free'. I'm assuming that potential customers will be forced against their will to go to other shops. Lets see, do you think it is worse for the owner of the business to decide, or the government.

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 6:40:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton said theirs is a "Christian establishment" and that they agree with Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has come under fire after signing the bill, which allows business owners to cite religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party, ABC 57 reported. “That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual," Kevin O'Connor told the news station. "They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” O'Connor's daughter Crystal said she didn't think that the bill was "targeting gays," adding, "It's supposed to help people that have a religious belief." In a separate interview with The Daily Beast, O'Connor clarified that although he doesn't "have a problem with gay people," he does not condone same-sex marriage. Although he wouldn't cater to a same-sex wedding, he wouldn't turn anyone away from the shop itself. “I mean, we don’t believe in murder. I also don’t believe in abortion,” he added. Indiana's law has been slammed by political figures and celebrities alike. Stephen King, George Takei and Miley Cyrus are just a few of the bold-faced names to have condemned the legislation thus far. Meanwhile, Pence has since called for an amendment to clarify that the legislation does not allow businesses to deny service to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people. I don't think the above Pizza owner has to worry about whether he serves gays or not. I have a feeling there will be a dearth of customers from the LGBT community eating his pizza. The business has been shut down by death threats and threats of burning the place down, how open minded.

dcnovice -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 6:44:02 PM)
quote: Followed by, thank god they aren't as bigoted as Christians. Who's "they?" And actually, fwiw, I didn't think anything remotely like that.

JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 7:09:58 PM)
Actually, though there has been a lot of states pushing for a RPRA since Hobby Lobby, the SCOTUS decision that said the Federal RPRA didn't apply to states was in 1998. The Hobby Lobby decision in 2014 extended the RPRA to for-profit corporate entities as "people".

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 7:26:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton said theirs is a "Christian establishment" and that they agree with Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has come under fire after signing the bill, which allows business owners to cite religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party, ABC 57 reported. “That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual," Kevin O'Connor told the news station. "They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” O'Connor's daughter Crystal said she didn't think that the bill was "targeting gays," adding, "It's supposed to help people that have a religious belief." In a separate interview with The Daily Beast, O'Connor clarified that although he doesn't "have a problem with gay people," he does not condone same-sex marriage. Although he wouldn't cater to a same-sex wedding, he wouldn't turn anyone away from the shop itself. “I mean, we don’t believe in murder. I also don’t believe in abortion,” he added. Indiana's law has been slammed by political figures and celebrities alike. Stephen King, George Takei and Miley Cyrus are just a few of the bold-faced names to have condemned the legislation thus far. Meanwhile, Pence has since called for an amendment to clarify that the legislation does not allow businesses to deny service to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people. I don't think the above Pizza owner has to worry about whether he serves gays or not. I have a feeling there will be a dearth of customers from the LGBT community eating his pizza. The business has been shut down by death threats and threats of burning the place down, how open minded. That sucks,truly it does,but the guy wanted to be in the center of the story ,didn't he ?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 7:34:55 PM)
"Who serves pizza at weddings?" is as ignorant a question as "Who eats Chinese food for breakfast?" I was raised in an Italian family. My grandparents were named "Di Matteo". I've been to an Italian wedding or two and you can bet your bottom dollar that pizza (amongst a host of other things) was served. Pizza is a variation on a very old traditional Sicilian staple food that was about all that poor Sicilians could afford to eat on a day-in-day-out basis. Just another example of: "You only have freedom if I think you should have it." Fucking laughable. Michael

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 7:40:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton said theirs is a "Christian establishment" and that they agree with Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has come under fire after signing the bill, which allows business owners to cite religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party, ABC 57 reported. “That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual," Kevin O'Connor told the news station. "They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” O'Connor's daughter Crystal said she didn't think that the bill was "targeting gays," adding, "It's supposed to help people that have a religious belief." In a separate interview with The Daily Beast, O'Connor clarified that although he doesn't "have a problem with gay people," he does not condone same-sex marriage. Although he wouldn't cater to a same-sex wedding, he wouldn't turn anyone away from the shop itself. “I mean, we don’t believe in murder. I also don’t believe in abortion,” he added. Indiana's law has been slammed by political figures and celebrities alike. Stephen King, George Takei and Miley Cyrus are just a few of the bold-faced names to have condemned the legislation thus far. Meanwhile, Pence has since called for an amendment to clarify that the legislation does not allow businesses to deny service to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people. I don't think the above Pizza owner has to worry about whether he serves gays or not. I have a feeling there will be a dearth of customers from the LGBT community eating his pizza. The business has been shut down by death threats and threats of burning the place down, how open minded. That sucks,truly it does,but the guy wanted to be in the center of the story ,didn't he ? No the local TV station went to him and interviewed his daughter. Even if you were right, a gay wants to be the center of the story so the store has to provide the wedding cake. But if the guy with the restaurant wants to be the center of the story it is ok if his and his families life's are threatened and he is forced out of business.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 7:52:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD No the local TV station went to him and interviewed his daughter. Even if you were right, a gay wants to be the center of the story so the store has to provide the wedding cake. But if the guy with the restaurant wants to be the center of the story it is ok if his and his families life's are threatened and he is forced out of business. Dude, that's how the PPLs define "Tolerance". You didn't get the memo? Michael

CreativeDominant -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 7:53:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton said theirs is a "Christian establishment" and that they agree with Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has come under fire after signing the bill, which allows business owners to cite religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party, ABC 57 reported. “That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual," Kevin O'Connor told the news station. "They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” O'Connor's daughter Crystal said she didn't think that the bill was "targeting gays," adding, "It's supposed to help people that have a religious belief." In a separate interview with The Daily Beast, O'Connor clarified that although he doesn't "have a problem with gay people," he does not condone same-sex marriage. Although he wouldn't cater to a same-sex wedding, he wouldn't turn anyone away from the shop itself. “I mean, we don’t believe in murder. I also don’t believe in abortion,” he added. Indiana's law has been slammed by political figures and celebrities alike. Stephen King, George Takei and Miley Cyrus are just a few of the bold-faced names to have condemned the legislation thus far. Meanwhile, Pence has since called for an amendment to clarify that the legislation does not allow businesses to deny service to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people. I don't think the above Pizza owner has to worry about whether he serves gays or not. I have a feeling there will be a dearth of customers from the LGBT community eating his pizza. The business has been shut down by death threats and threats of burning the place down, how open minded. That sucks,truly it does,but the guy wanted to be in the center of the story ,didn't he ? Or...he wanted to run his business according to his beliefs. Hypothetical...Gay couple opens a clothes store. Local medial covers them because it's a first for the community. Lesbian couple open a business catering gas, lesbian, transgender weddings. Again, covered by the media because they are doing something new and unconventional. Neither these couples sought media attention...they received it because of who they are, what they believe in and how they run their business. I wonder...would you feel the same...it sucks but they wanted attention...about these people having to shut down THEIR business because of death threats?

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 8:11:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton said theirs is a "Christian establishment" and that they agree with Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has come under fire after signing the bill, which allows business owners to cite religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party, ABC 57 reported. “That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual," Kevin O'Connor told the news station. "They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” O'Connor's daughter Crystal said she didn't think that the bill was "targeting gays," adding, "It's supposed to help people that have a religious belief." In a separate interview with The Daily Beast, O'Connor clarified that although he doesn't "have a problem with gay people," he does not condone same-sex marriage. Although he wouldn't cater to a same-sex wedding, he wouldn't turn anyone away from the shop itself. “I mean, we don’t believe in murder. I also don’t believe in abortion,” he added. Indiana's law has been slammed by political figures and celebrities alike. Stephen King, George Takei and Miley Cyrus are just a few of the bold-faced names to have condemned the legislation thus far. Meanwhile, Pence has since called for an amendment to clarify that the legislation does not allow businesses to deny service to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people. I don't think the above Pizza owner has to worry about whether he serves gays or not. I have a feeling there will be a dearth of customers from the LGBT community eating his pizza. The business has been shut down by death threats and threats of burning the place down, how open minded. That sucks,truly it does,but the guy wanted to be in the center of the story ,didn't he ? No the local TV station went to him and interviewed his daughter. Even if you were right, a gay wants to be the center of the story so the store has to provide the wedding cake. But if the guy with the restaurant wants to be the center of the story it is ok if his and his families life's are threatened and he is forced out of business. I said it truly sucked...you ignored that part though cause it didn't fit your narrative. Tough,it suckes to be you ,doesn't it.

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 8:30:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Indiana's Memories Pizza Reportedly Becomes First Business To Reject Catering Gay Weddings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/01/indiana-pizza-gay-couples_n_6985208.html A family-owned pizza parlor is causing a media stir after reportedly becoming the first business to publicly vow to reject gay weddings in the wake of Indiana's controversial Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The owners of Memories Pizza in Walkerton said theirs is a "Christian establishment" and that they agree with Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who has come under fire after signing the bill, which allows business owners to cite religious beliefs as a defense when sued by a private party, ABC 57 reported. “That lifestyle is something they choose. I choose to be heterosexual," Kevin O'Connor told the news station. "They choose to be homosexual. Why should I be beat over the head to go along with something they choose?” O'Connor's daughter Crystal said she didn't think that the bill was "targeting gays," adding, "It's supposed to help people that have a religious belief." In a separate interview with The Daily Beast, O'Connor clarified that although he doesn't "have a problem with gay people," he does not condone same-sex marriage. Although he wouldn't cater to a same-sex wedding, he wouldn't turn anyone away from the shop itself. “I mean, we don’t believe in murder. I also don’t believe in abortion,” he added. Indiana's law has been slammed by political figures and celebrities alike. Stephen King, George Takei and Miley Cyrus are just a few of the bold-faced names to have condemned the legislation thus far. Meanwhile, Pence has since called for an amendment to clarify that the legislation does not allow businesses to deny service to lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people. I don't think the above Pizza owner has to worry about whether he serves gays or not. I have a feeling there will be a dearth of customers from the LGBT community eating his pizza. The business has been shut down by death threats and threats of burning the place down, how open minded. That sucks,truly it does,but the guy wanted to be in the center of the story ,didn't he ? No the local TV station went to him and interviewed his daughter. Even if you were right, a gay wants to be the center of the story so the store has to provide the wedding cake. But if the guy with the restaurant wants to be the center of the story it is ok if his and his families life's are threatened and he is forced out of business. I said it truly sucked...you ignored that part though cause it didn't fit your narrative. Tough,it suckes to be you ,doesn't it. You said it sucks, then you made excuses. Do you even realize that you made it sound like he asked for it.

slvemike4u -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 8:48:53 PM)
I said it sucked...that's all he gets from me and that's all you get....you don't like it than don't send me a Christmas card,otherwise ,stuff it

BamaD -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 8:53:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I said it sucked...that's all he gets from me and that's all you get....you don't like it than don't send me a Christmas card,otherwise ,stuff it You said it sucked but.... You were blaming the victim.

JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/1/2015 11:48:08 PM)
The pizzeria owner publicly spoke his views, and professed his faith, extending that faith to his business. Standing up for your convictions isn't supposed to always be easy. And it can often come at a high price. Hopefully after this shitstorm blows over, he'll be able to reopen. But he will have to stop catering any weddings, and possibly all catering entirely, in order to balance his religious freedoms with the antidiscrimination wording in the revised law.

joether -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/2/2015 2:57:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u They were asked to make a wedding cake.......for a gay wedding ,not participate nor condone the actual ceremony. You do realize the cake comes out at the reception,no ? Not as if the cake is part of the wedding ceremony that they claim is sacrosanct. And you do understand that it doesn't matter when the cake comes out? It is a wedding cake...done in celebration of a gay wedding...And by making the cake, the baker has provided something for...thereby participated in...an event that his religious belief says is wrong. They're not claiming the ceremony is sacrosanct...they're claiming MARRIAGE is. But you knew that...didn't you? Funny how those pseudo-Christians dont have a problem baking a cake for the Muslims to celebrate someone's birthday. Or a Wicca celebration. Or spiritual event by any number of religions. How about baking cakes for two people (a man and woman) whom left their previous marriages (divorce, desertion) to marry the other? Dont see those pseudo-Christians having any problems..... But because they are baking a cake for a pair of gay guys, they have a problem due to their 'religious viewpoints'? BULLSHIT They just want to be bigots and be protected by the law. Some guy orders a wedding cake. Does the baker have a right to interrogate the customer on how the customer plans on using the cake? NO. None of their fucking business! An contracted to deliver the cake on a certain date at a certain place before a certain time. Unless that baker is moon lighting as a private investigator; what business is it to them, whom the cake is for? Or are pseudo-Christian bakers no longer professional? But lets torpedo your argument one more time (because this is fun). How does the pseudo-Christian baker know that the money they are holding....didn't....come from a gay wedding, but given to them by a heterosexual guy whom fixes cars, whom got the money from another heterosexual guy whom sells health insurance, whom got it from a gay couple looking to make long term plans? Does the baker accept that money? Because according to their 'religious' beliefs, they should not accept that money....EITHER. Therefore, logically speaking, a pseudo-Christian whom is a bigot towards homosexuality can take....ANY MONEY....from ANYONE....unless they can prove that money came directly from the US Treasury to the person, whom is giving them the funds for the cake. Since that 'gay agenda' can touch electronic money too! I heard it from some fantastical Christian babbling the other day. So it has to be 'legit', right?

Kirata -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/2/2015 3:24:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Some guy orders a wedding cake. Does the baker have a right to interrogate the customer on how the customer plans on using the cake? NO. None of their fucking business! An contracted to deliver the cake on a certain date at a certain place before a certain time. Unless that baker is moon lighting as a private investigator; what business is it to them, whom the cake is for? Just out of curiosity, you don't think a request for the traditional figures on the top of cake to be two "grooms" or two 'brides" would be a clue? quote: ORIGINAL: joether But lets torpedo your argument one more time (because this is fun). How does the pseudo-Christian baker know that the money they are holding....didn't....come from a gay wedding, but given to them by a heterosexual guy whom fixes cars, whom got the money from another heterosexual guy whom sells health insurance, whom got it from a gay couple looking to make long term plans? Just out of curiosity, what bearing does who is paying for the cake have on the objection to contributing to the celebration of a gay marriage? K.

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