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PeonForHer -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/2/2015 8:20:34 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Seems to me that one hand, you recognize that both sides have beliefs and freedoms and yet, on the other hand, it's still o.k. to disregard others'...as long as they're Christians...beliefs. Because "they'll get over it".
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PeonForHer
It isn't OK to disregard others' freedoms and beliefs, CD. It would not be a fine and noble thing to do to send a picture of your wedding cake, with two male figurines on top, but which was made by god-fearing cake makers who thought that the cake would be for a heterosexual couple. That wouldn't be as bad a thing to do as, for instance, bullshitting yourself that you actually think gays are great but, tragically, your religion prevents you from making a cake for them ... but it would still not be a fine and noble thing to do.
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CreativeDominant
Who said the Christian bakers think the gays are great? Or that they consider it a tragedy to not be able to serve them? Or...maybe they do. Sometimes, standing up for your beliefs can be tragic.
I did. As a hypothetical. And also because, of all the things that the Bible sees as undesirable, homosexuality is the one that is the focus of the cake makers' censure, along with that of a large section of the Christian Right in the USA, from what I can see. Not all, note, but a large section. Therefore the suspicion is too strong, amongst too many people, that the Bible has just been used to vindicate a preconceived dislike of homosexuals. Not gluttons, nor rich men who could never get through the 'eye of the needle' - they're fine, it seems. Just homosexuals. Until the defence against that charge of using the Bible just to vindicate a prejudice develops something more the utter feebleness that it's got now, I can't see how gay people and their supporters in cases like this are going to stop getting angry about it.
On the other hand ....
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CreativeDominant:
How many gay people do you suppose have some tragedy in their lives because of their beliefs? That doesn't stop them from believing what they believe, it just makes part of their life sad. I have a cousin who's gay. His sister hasn't spoken to him since he came out 5 years ago because she believes his union with another man is wrong "in God's eyes.". She was raised in the same church I was, 30 years later when the denominations beliefs had become a lot more accepting. Yet, that's her belief. I just spent time with him and his partpartner at my nephews' wedding. I'm Christian, just as she is. But my BELIEFS disagree with hers. So...she won't see him. I will. How tragic that his own sister won't see him...but it doesn't stop him from living his belief. Or stop her from living hers. He's not wrong but neither is she.And if you don't think a man can be a Christian, disagree with other Christians beliefs but allow them to have them and live their lives accordingly, and still have gay friends, you might want to look for a certain animal on the forums. He carries something in his tagline that should indicate to you that he considers me his friend.
I'm can't understand what you think I might want to argue with, here. I know both enough gays and enough Christians to know that they have (had) their struggles, in their different ways. And just for the record, 'Christians as good people who can vary in their beliefs' is not an alien concept to me.
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