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JVoV -> RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone (4/4/2015 2:31:51 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:
ORIGINAL: JVoV
I'm really just trying to understand. I see a difference in participating on a spiritual level, in prayer and such, than on a professional level with things that are completely separate from the ceremony. Again, I'm not Catholic, so I can't speak of your beliefs, and maybe there is no difference for you.
I want to say, again: I am no longer a practicing Catholic. In fact, I'm no longer Catholic, but I try not to violate anyone's sensibilities, as long as those sensibilities are reasonable.
In my example of civil unions vs. marriage, what's the issue? is it about legal equality or is it about destroying?
If we go back to the cake issue (just another outlier that the left glommed onto), a baker, refusing to bake you a cake is NOT denying you your right to a marriage. They're not even denying you your right to a wedding reception. They're not even denying you your right to have a cake, at your reception. They are refusing to participate in or facilitate an event with which they don't agree.
There's no other bakeries (You'd have to really live out in the boondocks for that to be true)? Here's an all-American idea: OPEN YOUR OWN! A true entrepreneur finds a dearth and services it.
I noticed that you didn't even bother trying to take a stab at my pro football idea or my military service idea? Could it be that I struck the mark a bit near? I think I did. Can you see how those statements are right in line with:
quote:
ORIGINAL: JVoV
I think that if your religion specifically demands that you not participate in outside religious ceremonies, then you should not go into a business where that would ever be an issue.
Are you seeing the similarity? Go to another bakery that isn't owned by a "bigot". Why would you want to support bigotry, anyway? I do that, every day. On those rare occasions when I go to a bar, I ONLY go to bars that allow smoking. I REFUSE to deal with the Walgreen's that is closest to my house because the manager lied to me, once. As a result, I deal with all Walgreen's a lot less because there are other stores that service my needs.
To bring it back to the topic (sort of) how many gay people, raised in catholic families, are still Catholic? Precious few, I'll wager. They have found another church that services their needs.
Which brings up another issue: Where does this end? How long before a same sex couples sues the Catholic church, demanding to be married and thereby, uses the government to impose their will on millions of Americans?
Why can't yo just say: "Thank God gay people can get married. if bigot bakers don't want to serve me, I'll find non-bigoted bakers that will!" What the actual fuck?
On a personal note, JVoV: I would like to say something that I don't get a chance to say around here too often:
While you and I, obviously, disagree strenuously, you have managed to keep this debate civil, (mostly)on point and to leave ad hominem and intentional mis-characterization where they belong. Kudos to you!
Michael
My argument for marriage instead of civil unions is Brown v the Board of Education. Separate is not equal.
I didn't respond to the football quote because I'm not familiar with it.
DADT is the primary reason I didn't serve in the military. There is no way I could have denied who I was for so long, after finally coming to terms with it myself.
I have no illusions about what either party has done to and for the gay community in my lifetime. And I don't completely trust either of them, no matter how good the rhetoric.
Instead, I now have the Supreme Court to thank for my mother's nagging about when I'll get married.
I also agree personally about finding a more friendly bakery or caterer. I don't want anyone involved in my wedding that isn't completely supportive. It's supposed to be a celebration of love.
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