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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 2:31:51 AM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I'm really just trying to understand. I see a difference in participating on a spiritual level, in prayer and such, than on a professional level with things that are completely separate from the ceremony. Again, I'm not Catholic, so I can't speak of your beliefs, and maybe there is no difference for you.



I want to say, again: I am no longer a practicing Catholic. In fact, I'm no longer Catholic, but I try not to violate anyone's sensibilities, as long as those sensibilities are reasonable.

In my example of civil unions vs. marriage, what's the issue? is it about legal equality or is it about destroying?

If we go back to the cake issue (just another outlier that the left glommed onto), a baker, refusing to bake you a cake is NOT denying you your right to a marriage. They're not even denying you your right to a wedding reception. They're not even denying you your right to have a cake, at your reception. They are refusing to participate in or facilitate an event with which they don't agree.

There's no other bakeries (You'd have to really live out in the boondocks for that to be true)? Here's an all-American idea: OPEN YOUR OWN! A true entrepreneur finds a dearth and services it.

I noticed that you didn't even bother trying to take a stab at my pro football idea or my military service idea? Could it be that I struck the mark a bit near? I think I did. Can you see how those statements are right in line with:

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I think that if your religion specifically demands that you not participate in outside religious ceremonies, then you should not go into a business where that would ever be an issue.



Are you seeing the similarity? Go to another bakery that isn't owned by a "bigot". Why would you want to support bigotry, anyway? I do that, every day. On those rare occasions when I go to a bar, I ONLY go to bars that allow smoking. I REFUSE to deal with the Walgreen's that is closest to my house because the manager lied to me, once. As a result, I deal with all Walgreen's a lot less because there are other stores that service my needs.

To bring it back to the topic (sort of) how many gay people, raised in catholic families, are still Catholic? Precious few, I'll wager. They have found another church that services their needs.

Which brings up another issue: Where does this end? How long before a same sex couples sues the Catholic church, demanding to be married and thereby, uses the government to impose their will on millions of Americans?

Why can't yo just say: "Thank God gay people can get married. if bigot bakers don't want to serve me, I'll find non-bigoted bakers that will!" What the actual fuck?

On a personal note, JVoV: I would like to say something that I don't get a chance to say around here too often:

While you and I, obviously, disagree strenuously, you have managed to keep this debate civil, (mostly)on point and to leave ad hominem and intentional mis-characterization where they belong. Kudos to you!



Michael


My argument for marriage instead of civil unions is Brown v the Board of Education. Separate is not equal.

I didn't respond to the football quote because I'm not familiar with it.

DADT is the primary reason I didn't serve in the military. There is no way I could have denied who I was for so long, after finally coming to terms with it myself.

I have no illusions about what either party has done to and for the gay community in my lifetime. And I don't completely trust either of them, no matter how good the rhetoric.

Instead, I now have the Supreme Court to thank for my mother's nagging about when I'll get married.

I also agree personally about finding a more friendly bakery or caterer. I don't want anyone involved in my wedding that isn't completely supportive. It's supposed to be a celebration of love.

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 2:47:36 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

My argument for marriage instead of civil unions is Brown v the Board of Education. Separate is not equal.



I think you must have missed (twice) where I said that ALL unions; straight/gay/whatever would be civil unions. No exceptions. No separations. Anyone that wants their partnership to be legally recognized has a civil union. legally, church weddings would mean NOTHING. They would be a religious rite that the government is not supposed to recognize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

DADT is the primary reason I didn't serve in the military. There is no way I could have denied who I was for so long, after finally coming to terms with it myself.



And didn't that piss you off? It (DADT) pissed me off. Wouldn't you have liked to serve? You were denied your ability to choose a profession in which you (obviously) had some interest. Maybe we shouldn't deny people of faith that same opportunity? It was done to you and that sucks but is the answer to do it to someone else or is the answer to try to make sure it doesn't happen, anymore?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I also agree personally about finding a more friendly bakery or caterer. I don't want anyone involved in my wedding that isn't completely supportive. It's supposed to be a celebration of love.



Exactly! It IS supposed to be a celebration of love! After that entire statement, above, I would accuse you of being reasonable. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could be reasonable? No one (other than maybe the fuckheads from Westboro Baptist) is out there, protesting gay weddings. No one is marching on Washington to prevent it. Why do people have to be so zeroed in on pissing on the rights of others?

Like it or not, in this country, people have a right to hate you. They don't have a right to act upon it but neither do they have (nor should they have) an obligation to act against it.

If we just get on with our lives and leave the bullshit where it belongs, eventually, the pile will get smaller and smaller.

The real issue here is that the politicians use anything they can to divide and conquer and there's a whole lot of people that buy right into that.



Michael

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 2:52:43 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Whether we're speaking about religion or personal beliefs, the fact is that the left is trying to force people to worship at their altar. The more I think about it, I haven't heard any deeply religious people moaning and gnashing teeth at having to serve with homosexuals. Could it be that some people just have a fucking agenda with which they're not willing to part for purely political purposes? How does it feel to be their puppet/mouthpiece?



Michael



No they are not. This has been explained quite a few times.

People that believe that discrimination is wrong are not asking anyone to worship at any altar other than the one they choose.

They are simply asking that in business, people not be allowed to discriminate on the basis of gender, color, or sexuality.

It's not fucking complicated.

If it's not ok for a store to refuse service to people of color, it is not ok for a store to refuse service to gay people.


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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 3:17:47 AM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		I wasn't secure enough in myself at the time DADT went into effect to be pissed off about it. Mostly it just made me sad. I didn't start raging against machines until I hit my mid-20s.

I do agree that marriage is a Holy union, and as such, government has no right to interfere. But you don't get all the nifty legal rights without government legitimizing the union. I don't know that I care too much what it's called legally. I'll still be saying 'marriage', 'wedding', 'husband', 'prenup', etc.

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 3:30:58 AM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I wonder how do they test gayness in those who discriminate


That's easy. Ya give 'em a banana put 'em in a round room and watch what they do with it. A cucumber works for this too



No homophobia here, eh lovmuffin.



Nope, homophobia would imply I'm afraid of gay people. I was just answering an absurd qyestion with an equally absurd answer.


seems pretty legitimate question to me, if someone claims there are gay bars refusing service to stright people to me it sounds a declaration that can be true only if it was taken out of context, of course if the supposedly stright person (but more likely repressed homosexual with struggles due to a religous education) goes in a gay bar and start harrassing the other customers for being gays he will be kicked out, not for his strightness but for his antisocial conduct, I feel quite unlikely the bouncer will start a vetting process at the door and in that case where wil be the limit set, will be a person unsure of his sexualty bounced, a first timer, a bisexual, or someone just not fitting the steretype bouced? will they ask for an autocertification? Is it actualy a private club? all this questions I can't give myself an answer that's not different from yours makes me think it was a random declaration just to put gay people at the same level of christians on this issue.
Anyway I suppose if you were vetted by pulling the barrel of a rifle in your asshole that would become your favourite bar. Happy easter lovmuffin.

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 3:32:52 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I wasn't secure enough in myself at the time DADT went into effect to be pissed off about it. Mostly it just made me sad. I didn't start raging against machines until I hit my mid-20s.



If you conducted yourself then, as you do, now, I'd have served with you, proudly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I do agree that marriage is a Holy union, and as such, government has no right to interfere. But you don't get all the nifty legal rights without government legitimizing the union. I don't know that I care too much what it's called legally. I'll still be saying 'marriage', 'wedding', 'husband', 'prenup', etc.



Call it whatever you like. if we're concerned with equal treatment under the law, my idea is a reasonable suggestion that addresses a whole lot of the issues, surrounding this.

Look: I would go to your wedding. I would go to your reception. I would make a toast, at the reception. I've been to a few same sex weddings. No issues, what-so-ever. I had the choice to be there.

No one in the wedding party decided to threaten to burn down the homes or businesses of people that RSVP-ed that they wouldn't be attending (and we know that a few of them didn't show up because of their beliefs).

You wouldn't hit me over the head and force me to go, right? That's what this whole issue boils down to; gay people don't want to be forced to live the way straight people want them to live. They're sick and tired of being closeted (and rightly so).

Well, some straight people don't want to be forced to live the way gay people live.

Many people are not the sum of what they do for a living, but I would hasten to suggest that with "artists" (Yes cake decorators are artists, too and certainly photographers), that statement is a little less accurate. They believe they're putting a part of themselves into the work that they do.



Michael

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 4:27:28 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

lovmuffin


Nope, homophobia would imply I'm afraid of gay people.

Wrong. Homophobia would imply that you are afraid of yourself


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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 4:36:47 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Do you think gay bars should have to allow anyone who wants to walk through that door in?


Anyone at all? People who are out of their heads on one drug or another; gangs of thugs obviously spoiling for a fight?



Now you are just taking things to the extreme and being stupid. If someone comes in out of the heads on one drug or another you call the cops or an ambulance depending on how bad off they are. And no you don't serve them more alcohol. A gang of thugs spoiling for a fight? Now this one you should know by heart, I pull out my gun and shoot the fuckers. This is america after all.



and for all the anal retentive fucks....that was a joke, I don't even own a gun.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 4/4/2015 4:37:21 AM >

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 4:54:42 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

PS...............There were two in Berwick Street, the Alibi and the Golden Lash. There was one in Greek Street, The Flamingo and there was one in Camden Town near the Dublin Castle . I am talking a few years back, so they may have folded or moved on. I have no idea about that and no intentions of ever going back to UK, so I won't be checking on them sfb.


Care to define your definition of sfb ?

Care to elucidate why you didnt get in those bars ? IE, were you drunk, in a group, what ? I am pretty sure they didnt just stop you at the door for being straight.

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 4:56:23 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Do you think gay bars should have to allow anyone who wants to walk through that door in?


Anyone at all? People who are out of their heads on one drug or another; gangs of thugs obviously spoiling for a fight?


Peon gets it......

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 5:01:13 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Nope, homophobia would imply I'm afraid of gay people. I was just answering an absurd qyestion with an equally absurd answer.


Homophobia doesnt mean just what you suggest it means.

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/at_home/sexual_orientation_faqs/2697.asp

Good to see you state your post was absurd, most of them are.

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 5:03:07 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

I just caught this story on the local news. In Longwood,FL some Christian guy thought it would be a bright idea to show there is a double standard on this wedding cake issue. He calls an LBGT friendly bakery and trys to order a wedding cake with a not so LBGT friendly inscription. The bakery refuses to make the order. The Christian guy recorded the conversation and posted it on Facebook. The bakery also gets death threats.....or maybe it was the Christian guy getting the threats. I'm not sure. I guess the wedding cake cuts both ways


So now you think it is a double standard because someone refused to make a cake that contained slurs.......

Dear oh dear.

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 5:32:03 AM   
lovmuffin


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Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I wonder how do they test gayness in those who discriminate


That's easy. Ya give 'em a banana put 'em in a round room and watch what they do with it. A cucumber works for this too



No homophobia here, eh lovmuffin.



Nope, homophobia would imply I'm afraid of gay people. I was just answering an absurd qyestion with an equally absurd answer.


seems pretty legitimate question to me, if someone claims there are gay bars refusing service to stright people to me it sounds a declaration that can be true only if it was taken out of context, of course if the supposedly stright person (but more likely repressed homosexual with struggles due to a religous education) goes in a gay bar and start harrassing the other customers for being gays he will be kicked out, not for his strightness but for his antisocial conduct, I feel quite unlikely the bouncer will start a vetting process at the door and in that case where wil be the limit set, will be a person unsure of his sexualty bounced, a first timer, a bisexual, or someone just not fitting the steretype bouced? will they ask for an autocertification? Is it actualy a private club? all this questions I can't give myself an answer that's not different from yours makes me think it was a random declaration just to put gay people at the same level of christians on this issue.
Anyway I suppose if you were vetted by pulling the barrel of a rifle in your asshole that would become your favourite bar. Happy easter lovmuffin.



Sure, in the context being used the question was legitimate. The discussion and arguing about straights getting refused entrance at gay bars dragging on and on is absurd. Maybe it was a little trollish or obnoxious of me to post that solution. Though I will say that there are certain groups of people who should stay the fuck out of certain bars. As a white guy I wouldn't go into a bar on the wrong side of town frequented by blacks. I wouldn't go into a redneck bar dressed in drag. What am I going to do if I get beat up or killed ? Cry discrimination or call my congressman ? Perhaps it would make a good hate crime or grounds for a law suit. That would sure make me feel better when I'm dead

No offense to black people or Appalachian folks but if they are members of The Society For The Perpetually Offended then fuck 'em. They can go suck a banana. You have a nice Easter too.

P.S. I'll stay the fuck out of the rifle barrel in the asshole bars too. That by no means sounds fun at all.

_____________________________

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 5:37:20 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

I just caught this story on the local news. In Longwood,FL some Christian guy thought it would be a bright idea to show there is a double standard on this wedding cake issue. He calls an LBGT friendly bakery and trys to order a wedding cake with a not so LBGT friendly inscription. The bakery refuses to make the order. The Christian guy recorded the conversation and posted it on Facebook. The bakery also gets death threats.....or maybe it was the Christian guy getting the threats. I'm not sure. I guess the wedding cake cuts both ways


So now you think it is a double standard because someone refused to make a cake that contained slurs.......

Dear oh dear.



Oh me oh my.

No slurs, just an unfriendly message.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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Profile   Post #: 654
RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 5:47:37 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle



quote:

lovmuffin


Nope, homophobia would imply I'm afraid of gay people.

Wrong. Homophobia would imply that you are afraid of yourself



Holy Homophobia Batman!!!!!! After all these years, someone has finally explained why I'm afraid to be alone with myself in the dark.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 5:57:54 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Nope, homophobia would imply I'm afraid of gay people. I was just answering an absurd qyestion with an equally absurd answer.


Homophobia doesnt mean just what you suggest it means.

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/at_home/sexual_orientation_faqs/2697.asp

Good to see you state your post was absurd, most of them are.



Yea, I'll get to that link sometime in 2016.

As a member of The Society For The Perpetually Offended, do you ever have any fun or do ya just stand around drinking coffee all day ?
Ya know what they say don'tcha ? Burnt lips sink ships

_____________________________

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"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 6:30:14 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

Nope, homophobia would imply I'm afraid of gay people.

Homophobia doesnt mean just what you suggest it means.

http://www.stonewall.org.uk/at_home/sexual_orientation_faqs/2697.asp

From your link:

The word homophobia was constructed by the heterosexual psychologist George Weinberg in the late 1960s. He used homophobia to label heterosexuals’ dread of being in close quarters with homosexuals as well as homosexuals’ internalised oppression.

Politically correct social justice loons have completely distorted the meaning of the word to impugn the mental health of anyone who disagrees with them and to remove its application to homosexuals completely. But your own source shows that the meaning of the word carries no implication of any kind of "hatred" or "intolerance" toward gays in general, and it still doesn't, though definition-creep now has it including antipathy.

homophobia:
1. unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.
antipathy:
1. a natural, basic, or habitual repugnance; aversion
2. an instinctive contrariety or opposition in feeling.

We can assume, of course, that if the lie is repeated often enough it will eventually make its way full-blown into all our dictionaries. But so far, at least, it hasn't. Tough shit for you, eh?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/4/2015 6:59:43 AM >

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RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 6:34:52 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Do you think gay bars should have to allow anyone who wants to walk through that door in?


Anyone at all? People who are out of their heads on one drug or another; gangs of thugs obviously spoiling for a fight?



Now you are just taking things to the extreme and being stupid. If someone comes in out of the heads on one drug or another you call the cops or an ambulance depending on how bad off they are. And no you don't serve them more alcohol. A gang of thugs spoiling for a fight? Now this one you should know by heart, I pull out my gun and shoot the fuckers. This is america after all.



and for all the anal retentive fucks....that was a joke, I don't even own a gun.


No, I was just trying to get you to refine your question, THB, the better to avoid a lot of stupid straw men from being invented.

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Profile   Post #: 658
RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 7:01:35 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

seems pretty legitimate question to me, if someone claims there are gay bars refusing service to stright people to me it sounds a declaration that can be true only if it was taken out of context, of course if the supposedly stright person (but more likely repressed homosexual with struggles due to a religous education) goes in a gay bar and start harrassing the other customers for being gays he will be kicked out, not for his strightness but for his antisocial conduct, I feel quite unlikely the bouncer will start a vetting process at the door and in that case where wil be the limit set, will be a person unsure of his sexualty bounced, a first timer, a bisexual, or someone just not fitting the steretype bouced? will they ask for an autocertification? Is it actualy a private club? all this questions I can't give myself an answer that's not different from yours makes me think it was a random declaration just to put gay people at the same level of christians on this issue.


Actually when I worked the door at our local club, I started vetting a customer as they drove in the lot. I looked for anything that indicated they person could be trouble. That included being drunk, high, loud and belligerent or even straight. Now I understand that you are having trouble understanding how I could tell if someone was straight but I am not sure I can explain it online. After a while, you just know. Either by the way they act or talk. It's not that hard if you pay attention to people.

quote:



Anyway I suppose if you were vetted by pulling the barrel of a rifle in your asshole that would become your favourite bar. Happy easter lovmuffin.


What a sweet thought and it tells me so much about you eulero, I bet your momma is so proud of you.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 659
RE: Indiania can now discriminant against anyone - 4/4/2015 7:27:57 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

seems pretty legitimate question to me, if someone claims there are gay bars refusing service to stright people to me it sounds a declaration that can be true only if it was taken out of context, of course if the supposedly stright person (but more likely repressed homosexual with struggles due to a religous education) goes in a gay bar and start harrassing the other customers for being gays he will be kicked out, not for his strightness but for his antisocial conduct, I feel quite unlikely the bouncer will start a vetting process at the door and in that case where wil be the limit set, will be a person unsure of his sexualty bounced, a first timer, a bisexual, or someone just not fitting the steretype bouced? will they ask for an autocertification? Is it actualy a private club? all this questions I can't give myself an answer that's not different from yours makes me think it was a random declaration just to put gay people at the same level of christians on this issue.


Actually when I worked the door at our local club, I started vetting a customer as they drove in the lot. I looked for anything that indicated they person could be trouble. That included being drunk, high, loud and belligerent or even straight. Now I understand that you are having trouble understanding how I could tell if someone was straight but I am not sure I can explain it online. After a while, you just know. Either by the way they act or talk. It's not that hard if you pay attention to people.

quote:



Anyway I suppose if you were vetted by pulling the barrel of a rifle in your asshole that would become your favourite bar. Happy easter lovmuffin.


What a sweet thought and it tells me so much about you eulero, I bet your momma is so proud of you.


what does it tells? that I don't like when I'm told my point is absurede?

well so you were buncing every unsure person?

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