Playing without a safeword? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive



Message

MasterfulDonald -> Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 5:51:27 AM)

I see this pretty frequently. A slave/sub that will say they trust their Master and that they don't need a safeword. That's hard for me to understand. "He will keep me safe", doesn't allow him to be inside your brain. I'm wondering how a slave/sub negotiates that rare (buy very really possibility) that it's too much, but there isn't a safeword.



DarkSteven -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 7:34:15 AM)

They're not doing this for the first time. If they're M/s, I'll assume that they have several years of experience at least.

It's a variant of no limits. That means that the s trusts that the Dom understands them so much they'll know reactions and know when they're getting too much.




shiftyw -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 8:07:11 AM)

It isn't for me either.

I don't expect him to know what I'm thinking. I've found most people who play this way actually just use stop as a safeword- so they actually probably do have one.



FelineRanger -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 8:18:33 AM)

The only time I have seen couples play without a safeword is when they have been in very long term relationships of 5 years or more. That's really the only way one knows the other well enough to know whether they're approaching any kind of limit.



SeekingTrinity -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 10:25:27 AM)

~FRing it~

We have never had a formal safe word in place. We just talk honestly with each other if we are feeling the need to stop for whatever reason. And of course we both pay attention to each other's non-verbals. We've just honestly never felt a need to have a specific word in place to use. But that is just us and what works for us.



stef -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 10:48:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

They're not doing this for the first time. If they're M/s, I'll assume that they have several years of experience at least.

It's a variant of no limits. That means that the s trusts that the Dom understands them so much they'll know reactions and know when they're getting too much.

Or it just means that some people choose to use their gift of language in order to bring attention to a situating that needs addressing. Why say "yellow" or "pomegranate" or "Ann Coulter" when you can just as easily say "I can't feel my hand" or "I think I just dislocated my shoulder" or whatever?



DesFIP -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 1:24:01 PM)

I tend to freeze when things go bad. That means I can't verbalize. If he's expecting me to hold all the responsibility for things going well, I wouldn't be with him.

We played lightly at first and gradually explored as we got to know each other. He is quite capable of seeing that my neck is hunched, that I'm turning away from him, that my muscles are rigid and not relaxed.

When he sees those signs, he stops and talks to me. He takes off the gag, checks that my limbs are warm and not bluish in color. He strokes my hair, my back and asks if I need it to stop. If I can't relax enough to answer, then he assumes that it has to stop. Maybe we could have gone further, but so what? We can play harder next time. There's no rush.

Me? I figure any top that expects the bottom to hold all the responsibility isn't one I could trust; too oblivious, too selfish. If you're unable to focus enough on me to see if I look like I'm okay, then you don't get to do things to me.



sweetieDA -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 2:48:15 PM)

It depends what you mean by 'too much'. If you mean too dangerous then that's not safe, sane and consensual, and I don't need a safeword to stop him, I just tell him to stop.

If you mean 'too much pain' then that's tough, I get over it. It's not my job to tell him how much pain to inflict. Pain, in itself, is not dangerous, so I have no right to avoid it or refuse it, simply because I don't like it.

Besides which - he usually just listens for my screams. He can tell the difference between 'hurts but mmm' 'hurts and oh my god' and 'hurts and I can't take any more'. He loves me, and he has no real desire to force me to endure things that are truly unbearable.

A Dom that doesn't listen or pay attention to body language because they rely on me deciding when to say the magic word, seems much more dangerous than a Dom who pays attention to all the signals I am giving him, and judges from that when to stop.

But I guess if you are the kind of Dom who regularly takes submissives past what they are happy to take because you can't judge it, then yeah, I guess you do need a safeword.



Kana -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 3:25:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald

I see this pretty frequently. A slave/sub that will say they trust their Master and that they don't need a safeword. That's hard for me to understand. "He will keep me safe", doesn't allow him to be inside your brain. I'm wondering how a slave/sub negotiates that rare (buy very really possibility) that it's too much, but there isn't a safeword.

I play with people who know who I am, what I am about and who know Me. In other words, they trust Me.
Playing without a safeword is an extension of said trust.
There's no negotiation involved.
Instead it is an acceptance of the Power Structure that defines the interaction



DerangedUnit -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/5/2015 8:05:06 PM)

I've never used safewords.

I think what people have a hard time understanding is that not having a safe word doesn't mean you can't stop something.

I don't use safe words because to me a word isn't "safe" if someone isn't going to listen to you when you look them in the eyes and tell them to stop than they weren't planning on listening to you in the first place and a safe word wasn't going to help. What would help in that situation is having your shit together and knowing how to defend yourself.

In other words I see safe words as a false sense of security that is at best a game and at worst a danger to rely on.

It doesn't take any trust on my part to not have a safe word, other than trust in myself. It required faith on his part in the beginning, to trust that I wouldn't flip out on him... but being fearless, and able to draw your own boundaries are two of qualities that are most respected by me... so if they can't know that they've gone too far without me making up a word to tell them..... they aren't the Dom for me.



MasterfulDonald -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/6/2015 5:23:07 AM)

Interesting replies.

I would make two comments. First, that without a safeword, you remove the ability to fully explore the depth of force/being forced. Now that's not how everyone (obviously most of you here) plays. But D/s is to a great extent about the intensity. How can you find that edge if the Dom has to judge someone's tolerance on today versus yesterday? And it's not just about pain. It may be a verbal humiliation, or restrictive bondage that is too much. But a sub/slave can't fully explore it if there is no 'stop'.

Second, there is a presumption of a line that a Dom can always know whether he has crossed. But people are not robots. What may have been just fine yesterday with a glass of wine, might be excruciating today without one while she's on her period.

But here is the real thing for me. Why would you NOT have a safeword? If the sub/slave never uses it, so what? It's a one time 60 second conversation. Now it's there, just in case.

Analogy. I had a friend I used to bicycle with who had an ultra low gear on his bike that he never used. He explained that it wasn't there so much so that he could use it, it was so he had the comfort of it being there. He had a place to go if the mountain just got too steep. I look at safewords the same way.

Thank you all so much for the replies, I appreciate it.



thishereboi -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/6/2015 5:30:24 AM)

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I have found telling her there is a problem is just as effective as spitting out a safe word.



NookieNotes -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/6/2015 6:58:43 AM)

We don't use safewords. We've never needed/wanted them. We've played quite deeply and intensely. We've talked over consent and non-consent ahead of ou more creative scenes. We care about each other and watch out for body language.

We also have no reason to use the word no, so that is enough of a safeword for us.



littleladybug -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/6/2015 7:46:59 AM)

We have them. I don't believe that the use of safewords, or not, has much to do inherently with the level of trust between the Dom and sub. In our case, we use them because, frankly, I'm going to know when "the line" is being approached before he will.

This is especially true for us in terms of "pain play". I don't consider myself a masochist, but I do like things rough. Bottom line is that I will know before he does where the line is, and when it's in danger of being overstepped. Neither one of us wants to have this pushed, so using terms like "red" or "yellow" works for us.

Of course, the use of safewords only works if the other person listens to them. Much like any other words that we use.



sweetieDA -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/6/2015 6:06:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald
... a sub/slave can't fully explore it if there is no 'stop'.


I can't fully explore it if there IS a stop, because if I know I can get out of something, my inner wimp will win that argument every time; I'll safeword, and I'll never know how it might have felt. Having no safeword means I get to experience a range of play beyond what I would ordinarily choose for myself. I experience things that seem boring or terrifying or pointless or agonising and I come out the other side in one piece. If you always do what you've always done then you'll always get what you always got. I have no safeword because I want to do what I haven't always done and don't necessarily always want to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald
Second, there is a presumption of a line that a Dom can always know whether he has crossed. But people are not robots. What may have been just fine yesterday with a glass of wine, might be excruciating today without one while she's on her period.


If it was fine yesterday and today it is excrutiating then yesterday it will likely have sounded like 'mmmm, ahhhh, yeah.... ' and today it will sound like 'arrrrrrgggghhhhhh! arrrrrrggggggghhhhh!' I find most Doms are easily able to tell the difference. What they choose to do with it is up to them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald
But here is the real thing for me. Why would you NOT have a safeword? If the sub/slave never uses it, so what? It's a one time 60 second conversation. Now it's there, just in case.


Because a safeword represents the power to control and end a scene. I prefer relationships in which I am not able to control or end a scene. Therefore, a word to do such a thing is undesirable to me. If I had a safeword, my nerves would get the better of me and I would cop out. For example, the other day my Master put a needle through my clit. In the second before he did it, I wanted him to stop so badly, I would have done almost anything to get out of it. If I'd had a safeword, I'd have used it. Then he put the needle through and it was fine, I actually liked it. By not having a safeword, I was able to explore an s&m activity that did me no harm, that strengthened the bond between me and my Master and that helped me grow and explore as a slave. For me, there is no such thing as a safeword that represents only a 60 second conversation. There are safewords that represent a constant dilemma of whether or not to use them and there are safewords that represent my annoying and obstructive habit of backing out of things that scare me. Neither of these is desirable to me or my Master, so there is no use in us having one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald
I had a friend I used to bicycle with who had an ultra low gear on his bike that he never used. He explained that it wasn't there so much so that he could use it, it was so he had the comfort of it being there. He had a place to go if the mountain just got too steep. I look at safewords the same way.


Your friend wishes to control his cycling experience. I wish not to control mine. That is the difference between us :-)




crazyml -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/7/2015 2:02:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald

Interesting replies.

I would make two comments. First, that without a safeword, you remove the ability to fully explore the depth of force/being forced.


This startled me to be honest. Firstly, I don't think it's true at all. But secondly, and worryingly, there's an implication that you should be pushing her hard enough to safeword.
quote:



Now that's not how everyone (obviously most of you here) plays. But D/s is to a great extent about the intensity. How can you find that edge if the Dom has to judge someone's tolerance on today versus yesterday? And it's not just about pain. It may be a verbal humiliation, or restrictive bondage that is too much. But a sub/slave can't fully explore it if there is no 'stop'.


The point is that when you know someone, and yourself, well enough, there is a "stop". It's the point at which you can tell she's had enough, or she's at her limit.

If anything I think that an over-emphasis on safewords might produce the opposite effect - it might result in a sub never crossing that boundary and discovering something new.

Would I play without a safeword with a total stranger? Fuck no. But.... with someone I know, they'll know the deal. I've had a fair few scenes where she's said "If I had been given a safe word I would have used it 30 minutes ago" and where she's been grateful that she didn't. Is this "risky", fuck yes. Is it "irresponsible", not necessarily - certainly it's no more irresponsible than relying on safewords to tell you where the limit is.

quote:


Second, there is a presumption of a line that a Dom can always know whether he has crossed. But people are not robots. What may have been just fine yesterday with a glass of wine, might be excruciating today without one while she's on her period.


Of course people's limits change, but surely you can at least get some kind of clue where someone's head is by the way they're reacting?

quote:



But here is the real thing for me. Why would you NOT have a safeword? If the sub/slave never uses it, so what? It's a one time 60 second conversation. Now it's there, just in case.


Ok, this is probably your most compelling argument but I am still not sure it's compelling enough.

There are a few kinksters that take a "I am too good for a safeword" or "safewords are for newbies / losers" stance, and those people bother me a little.

There are others who, because of their confidence (which can come from experience or hubris) regard them as pointless - indeed "limiting". It's up to the other party to determine whether the confidence comes from experience or hubris and for them to both share the consequences of those choices.


quote:


Analogy. I had a friend I used to bicycle with who had an ultra low gear on his bike that he never used. He explained that it wasn't there so much so that he could use it, it was so he had the comfort of it being there. He had a place to go if the mountain just got too steep. I look at safewords the same way.

Thank you all so much for the replies, I appreciate it.


If your friend was a competitive cyclist, he'd be lying awake at night being irritated by those 11 grams of steel that he had to cart around on his bike and which added nothing to his performance. - Just sayin.



caelestis -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/7/2015 6:39:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald

Interesting replies.

I would make two comments. First, that without a safeword, you remove the ability to fully explore the depth of force/being forced. Now that's not how everyone (obviously most of you here) plays. But D/s is to a great extent about the intensity. How can you find that edge if the Dom has to judge someone's tolerance on today versus yesterday? And it's not just about pain. It may be a verbal humiliation, or restrictive bondage that is too much. But a sub/slave can't fully explore it if there is no 'stop'.


I feel the exact opposite. How can I push my edges and limits if I know in the back of my mind I can stop it with just a word? I can't lose myself in it if I have that much control. As my current dynamic works I only ask him to stop if something is wrong. After I verbalize that, he may choose to stop or he may choose to fix that and go on. This is what makes it intense for me, and I'm lucky to have someone who knows me so well, because often he realizes I've hit my limit before I do, because I am so "lost" in what's happening to me. Its blissful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald
Second, there is a presumption of a line that a Dom can always know whether he has crossed. But people are not robots. What may have been just fine yesterday with a glass of wine, might be excruciating today without one while she's on her period.

But here is the real thing for me. Why would you NOT have a safeword? If the sub/slave never uses it, so what? It's a one time 60 second conversation. Now it's there, just in case.


Because we're adults who can communicate and prefer me not to have a single word that can mean "I have a cramp" or "I'm bleeding out." or anywhere in between. We find words more effective and they don't jerk me out of my headspace in a negative way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald
Analogy. I had a friend I used to bicycle with who had an ultra low gear on his bike that he never used. He explained that it wasn't there so much so that he could use it, it was so he had the comfort of it being there. He had a place to go if the mountain just got too steep. I look at safewords the same way.

Thank you all so much for the replies, I appreciate it.


My comfort is in the fact that I fully trust that if he ever did push something too far and something went wrong, he'd be there to help piece everything back together. Not having a safeword doesn't make our risks any higher than anyone else who plays, because like I said, we still communicate when something goes wrong. We both work to make sure things are as safe as possible, but nothing you do will ever mitigate all risk. So that overreaching trust in him is my safety, and he has taken a long time to prove that he is capable of handling that responsibility.



seekingreality -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/7/2015 9:54:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald

I see this pretty frequently. A slave/sub that will say they trust their Master and that they don't need a safeword. That's hard for me to understand. "He will keep me safe", doesn't allow him to be inside your brain. I'm wondering how a slave/sub negotiates that rare (buy very really possibility) that it's too much, but there isn't a safeword.


In my experience, most people just say "That's too much" or "Let's stop." I guess if you're the type who gets off on a sub begging to "Please stop" without meaning it, that won't work. So, sure, it makes logical sense to have a safeword. However, I think many people just rely on literal instructions to stop rather than some code.



ResidentSadist -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/7/2015 11:48:32 PM)

Pain is an emotional response. Have you ever cut yourself and didn't know it? It didn't hurt until you saw the injury. Your state of mind determines what is "too much". Getting inside someone's head and guiding them, letting them see iit through your eyes, sharing the passion can change their "limits" about what is too much. I love playing on these edges and exploring new things with my partner, expanding their limits. It is this connection that motivates most of my play.

For me, BDSM type torture is about the connection and exploring them, exposing them to desires, passions and sensations . It is about getting inside their brain. I am extremely empathetic and can feel what my partner feels. I don't generally play casually with strangers I can't "read". When I do "Top" someone new, like a new person at a party, it is because I feel a connection to them. Their feedback is their body language, the look in their eye, the sound of their moans, the juice running down their leg . . . red, green and yellow safe words feel like traffic instructions and don't go well with my type of "play". Don't tell me how to drive or where to turn, tell me where you want to go and if it is a place I also want to go as well, then relax, submit, enjoy the ride and let me drive. If you don't trust me enough to read you, then it isn't the type of play I am interested in. So safe words have little value in my arena.

I am not perfect, but I rarely misread someone and I ALWAYS can feel if we disconnect. When that happens I stop and talk until we connect and get back on track. So I am never torturing someone while I can't get a read on what they are feeling. For others where causal play is more kink-centric, more about the situation and what you are doing than who you are doing it with, I can see where safe words are very useful feedback.




GotSteel -> RE: Playing without a safeword? (4/8/2015 5:31:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterfulDonald
I see this pretty frequently. A slave/sub that will say they trust their Master and that they don't need a safeword. That's hard for me to understand. "He will keep me safe", doesn't allow him to be inside your brain. I'm wondering how a slave/sub negotiates that rare (buy very really possibility) that it's too much, but there isn't a safeword.


A couple of options, one it's common for people not to use a safeword because they just communicate normally.

The second one is that in some long term relationships after years of being together the Dom has enough of a sense of how the sub will react and can read her body language to the extent that the couple becomes comfortable with him and only him deciding if/when the sub has had enough.



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.09375