RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass

RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 10:47:50 AM)
Do you carry when you go into state or federal buildings? If you do how polite would you require the cops to be to you before you surrendered your weapon?

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 10:57:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You are under no obligation to answer any post that you feel challanges your intellect beyond its limits. Oh good grief. The Patterson was sold to the military as well as the civilian market. Colt intended it for the military. Colt first patented his gun in england and france before he patened it in the u.s. The french millitary did not buy any. The britts military did not buy any. The u.s. military did not buy any. It was not until years after it had been patented that the u.s. military tried it out and found it too fragil for the military. The Walker was still the same basic design. The only things that changed were adding another round to the cylinder, a stationary trigger and beefing it up for a the more powerful .44 caliber ball. That would be your unsubstantiated opinion. If I say please, will you go away ? You are under no obligation to answer any post that you feel challanges your intellect beyond its limits. He tried to sell it to the military as was his intention as was the intention of most firearm designs. It saw limited use in the US military. Now go away.

BamaD -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 11:00:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u There you go...he wasn't actually in jail(which would have made being on my doorstep impossible)so I should assume he is a responsible gun owner. Yet he wears it because he doesn't trust his fellow citizens Don't you see the contradiction in those positions ? He's an armed man,I don't know him...but he's not in jail so he must be alright.....lol Not what I said. First you don't care whether he is a responsible gun owner or not. You don't want guns in your home. That is your right. Since he isn't in jail odds are he isn't some kind of wild man, remember open carry attracts the attention of cops and if he screwed up the would have noticed. All of this is irrelevant because you have the right (and I have never even implied otherwise) to ban them from your house. As I have said I am inclined to believe that you acted like jerk because on here you don't seem to know the meaning of civility. You have admitted that your position on guns it purely emotional, thus your reasons are excuses for what you say, not reasons for what you say. Second I carry every where because the most dangerous area I go to is my neighborhood. The 20 ft between my door and my car are where I am most likely to have a problem. This doesn't prove I distrust my "fellow citizens" but that I know where the threat is. This in know way means I am not responsible. Your implication that a person carrying proves a lack of responsibility is just an anti-gun fantasy. There is no contradiction.

BamaD -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 11:24:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u There you go...he wasn't actually in jail(which would have made being on my doorstep impossible)so I should assume he is a responsible gun owner. Yet he wears it because he doesn't trust his fellow citizens Don't you see the contradiction in those positions ? He's an armed man,I don't know him...but he's not in jail so he must be alright.....lol Not what I said. First you don't care whether he is a responsible gun owner or not. You don't want guns in your home. That is your right. Since he isn't in jail odds are he isn't some kind of wild man, remember open carry attracts the attention of cops and if he screwed up the would have noticed. All of this is irrelevant because you have the right (and I have never even implied otherwise) to ban them from your house. As I have said I am inclined to believe that you acted like jerk because on here you don't seem to know the meaning of civility. You have admitted that your position on guns it purely emotional, thus your reasons are excuses for what you say, not reasons for what you say. Second I carry every where because the most dangerous area I go to is my neighborhood. The 20 ft between my door and my car are where I am most likely to have a problem. This doesn't prove I distrust my "fellow citizens" but that I know where the threat is. This in know way means I am not responsible. Your implication that a person carrying proves a lack of responsibility is just an anti-gun fantasy. There is no contradiction. Actually I recently discovered that my town has far more crime than I had believed, it seems that it has the highest crime rate in the state for the size of town, so far from being paranoid, I have been overly optimistic.

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 11:38:18 AM)
No he did not try to sell it to the military. He made more money selling drugs than he did selling guns until the army approached him years after the pattent was taken out not vice versa.

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 12:24:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx No he did not try to sell it to the military. He made more money selling drugs than he did selling guns until the army approached him years after the pattent was taken out not vice versa. From Wikipedia: Colt sold the Paterson revolver and carbine to the United States Army and they saw limited use in the Second Seminole War in Florida.The firepower advantage that they offered was initially praised by the troops, but the United States government considered the arms to be excessively fragile and prone to malfunction. Pretty please go away

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 12:29:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx No he did not try to sell it to the military. He made more money selling drugs than he did selling guns until the army approached him years after the pattent was taken out not vice versa. From Wikipedia: Colt sold the Paterson revolver and carbine to the United States Army and they saw limited use in the Second Seminole War in Florida.The firepower advantage that they offered was initially praised by the troops, but the United States government considered the arms to be excessively fragile and prone to malfunction. The army ask him not vice versa Although neither the First nor Second Model Ring Lever rifles saw widespread adoption by any military organization, several were procured by the United States Army and the Texas Navy.[5] After an unfavorable review by Army officials in September 1837, which reported that Colt's First Model Ring Lever rifle was prone to failure and too complicated for combat service, a second review was conducted in March 1838.[2] At the request of Lieutenant Colonel William S. Harney of the Second Dragoon Regiment, Colt traveled to Florida with 100 Ring Lever rifles for the review. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Ring_Lever_rifles

mnottertail -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 12:44:19 PM)
Yah, anyone can say anything he did sell to the military, and the gun was 10-12 years old when he did it and went thru several design modifications, but here is the thing. Until around 1850 Colt had no competitors because due to patent litigation, he had a monopoly on revolvers. So, end of joke, end of convo. And now to the important stuff. Did the Altoona Jeebus terrorist shott his dick off or what?

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 1:02:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Did the Altoona Jeebus terrorist shott his dick off or what? I thought he shot yours off. Isn't that the reason you're dancing around like that ? [8D]

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 1:06:26 PM)
Colt sold the Paterson revolver and carbine to the United States Army and they saw limited use in the Second Seminole War in Florida.The firepower advantage that they offered was initially praised by the troops, but the United States government considered the arms to be excessively fragile and prone to malfunction. The army ask him not vice versa Although neither the First nor Second Model Ring Lever rifles saw widespread adoption by any military organization, several were procured by the United States Army and the Texas Navy.[5] After an unfavorable review by Army officials in September 1837, which reported that Colt's First Model Ring Lever rifle was prone to failure and too complicated for combat service, a second review was conducted in March 1838.[2] At the request of Lieutenant Colonel William S. Harney of the Second Dragoon Regiment, Colt traveled to Florida with 100 Ring Lever rifles for the review. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Ring_Lever_rifles

lovmuffin -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 1:48:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I'm not familiar with the Kahr CW. You can keep repeating 7 safeties as much as you want but it still doesn't make your statement twue. I can't remember nor can I find any credible gun publication or expert refering to a particular design feature on any gun, including the 1911 that may make it safer, as a safety. But keep trying, ya might even change the traditional definition if you repeat yourself enough. Also called lock, safety catch, safety lock. a locking or cutoff device that prevents a gun from being fired accidentally. I am using the traditional, necessary and sufficient conditions of safety, that accurately meets the definition. You are using the definition of equivocation and dishonest mincing. Your original list of 1911 safeties: grip safety sear disconnect slide stop half cock position manual safety pushback safety slide single action empty chamber Lets review a couple of them. 1) slide stop: it holds the slide back if you engage it manually or if the slide comes back on an empty magazine. With an empty mag it visually looks as though it's safe because the gun appears to be empty but with a loaded mag it in fact would be unsafe. I really can't understand why you call that a safety. 2) slide single action empty chamber: Just because you're carrying with the hammer down on an empty chamber doesn't mean it fits the definition of "a safety". You can carry any auto loader that way or even a revolver with the hammer over an empty chamber. I don't suppose you're going to call that a safety on a revolver ? 3)pushback safety: I don't know what that is. I even tried to look it up. I'll concede on the half cock. It's a passive safety in case your thumb slips off the hammer between a half and full cock or if the notch on the full cock becomes worn and slips. It is however unsafe to carry half cocked over a round.

mnottertail -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 2:03:23 PM)
1) shoot the gun with the slide stop lock. No can do. 2) shoot the gun with the hammer at rest. Yes, keeps you from shooting your dick off in a church in altoona if you are of the imbecile variety. consider the term lock and load, or locked and loaded, without resorting to a Sly Stallone movie. 3) push the gun into something, you will see it unlock, and it will not fire. you take the gun from me, I grab and push. taught in hand to hand by Drill Sergeants) These safeties were necessary and required to memorize to pass basic training. Shall we go thru the two safeties on a grenade? Or how about the M16 military variants (leave that for huntie, maybe). Wanna go the M60 machine gun? You aint military are you? Now, grab up your dictionary and read the necessary and sufficient conditions for these mechanical actions to be defined safety. Or review the post in which I gave it to you.

BamaD -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 3:15:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You are under no obligation to answer any post that you feel challanges your intellect beyond its limits. Oh good grief. The Patterson was sold to the military as well as the civilian market. Colt intended it for the military. Colt first patented his gun in england and france before he patened it in the u.s. The french millitary did not buy any. The britts military did not buy any. The u.s. military did not buy any. It was not until years after it had been patented that the u.s. military tried it out and found it too fragil for the military. The Walker was still the same basic design. The only things that changed were adding another round to the cylinder, a stationary trigger and beefing it up for a the more powerful .44 caliber ball. That would be your unsubstantiated opinion. If I say please, will you go away ? You are under no obligation to answer any post that you feel challanges your intellect beyond its limits. He tried to sell it to the military as was his intention as was the intention of most firearm designs. It saw limited use in the US military. Now go away. The Patterson Colt, made for the Texas Rangers which at the time was both the state police and the military in Texas.

BamaD -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 3:19:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin I'm not familiar with the Kahr CW. You can keep repeating 7 safeties as much as you want but it still doesn't make your statement twue. I can't remember nor can I find any credible gun publication or expert refering to a particular design feature on any gun, including the 1911 that may make it safer, as a safety. But keep trying, ya might even change the traditional definition if you repeat yourself enough. Also called lock, safety catch, safety lock. a locking or cutoff device that prevents a gun from being fired accidentally. I am using the traditional, necessary and sufficient conditions of safety, that accurately meets the definition. You are using the definition of equivocation and dishonest mincing. Your original list of 1911 safeties: grip safety sear disconnect slide stop half cock position manual safety pushback safety slide single action empty chamber Lets review a couple of them. 1) slide stop: it holds the slide back if you engage it manually or if the slide comes back on an empty magazine. With an empty mag it visually looks as though it's safe because the gun appears to be empty but with a loaded mag it in fact would be unsafe. I really can't understand why you call that a safety. 2) slide single action empty chamber: Just because you're carrying with the hammer down on an empty chamber doesn't mean it fits the definition of "a safety". You can carry any auto loader that way or even a revolver with the hammer over an empty chamber. I don't suppose you're going to call that a safety on a revolver ? 3)pushback safety: I don't know what that is. I even tried to look it up. I'll concede on the half cock. It's a passive safety in case your thumb slips off the hammer between a half and full cock or if the notch on the full cock becomes worn and slips. It is however unsafe to carry half cocked over a round. Using the slide stop as a safety also exposes the magazine to things that can cause a magazine malfunction like refusing to feed.

thompsonx -> RE: Gun goes off in Altoona church during Easter Vigil mass (4/8/2015 3:28:30 PM)
That would be the walker colt. The little punk thought the paterson colt was a pile of shit and told the drug dealer so. He also told the moron how to fix it so that warmongers would be interested in it in serious quatities.

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