Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (Full Version)

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MrJerryW -> Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 1:38:12 PM)

We started playing with a female submissive. She would come to our house and we always had a great time. She is a college student, nice and easy to communicate with. The last time she was here she said she uses an illicit drug, as well as deals in it. It helps pay her college bills.

I don't ever want her in my house again and I told her I consider her one of the lowest life forms because the product she is peddling kills people.

My partner accused me of unfairly judging her. She doesn't bring this illicit drug into my house. I showed her the webistes of what this drug does to people. It's the second most addicting drug and destroys the body and mind. She said she isn't responsible for other people's choices. If I'm such a judging jerk, why don't I go after people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, etc?

I don't know how to respond to this last statement. How would you?



MoxieMcfly -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 1:53:27 PM)

Honestly, I think the most objective thing to do is simply state that it is a boundary and maybe your reasons for the boundary. So by banning her from the house and using website to support your opinion, you have done that. The argument that I would recommend is that you are not personally involved with people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, etc. You are responsible for making good judgments in who comes into and stays in your home. You are not going after people who sell these other substances, but if they came to your home, you would do the same. Of course..in order for this to be a valid argument, it has to be true.

But keeping your opinion of people who deal/support these industries out of the argument. Keep it based on your boundaries, guidelines, limits, not based on what other people do in their own lives.



Moderator3 -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 1:57:11 PM)

Since the thread is already posted, I do have some concerns about it, but won't remove it this time.

This is to anyone that responds. We do not allow the discussion of other members that are named or when people can know who they are. Any mention of a nickname will cause one of the staff members to make an instant ban.

If you use, don't promote it here. In fact, don't even mention it.

Thank you




ExiledTyrant -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 2:14:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW

We started playing with a female submissive. She would come to our house and we always had a great time. She is a college student, nice and easy to communicate with. The last time she was here she said she uses an illicit drug, as well as deals in it. It helps pay her college bills.

I don't ever want her in my house again and I told her I consider her one of the lowest life forms because the product she is peddling kills people.

My partner accused me of unfairly judging her. She doesn't bring this illicit drug into my house. I showed her the webistes of what this drug does to people. It's the second most addicting drug and destroys the body and mind. She said she isn't responsible for other people's choices. If I'm such a judging jerk, why don't I go after people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, etc?

I don't know how to respond to this last statement. How would you?


I'd tell her that I value her opinion on the subject, but since she is so open to peoples choices that she is now under Sharia law and to put her fucking hajib on, shut her mouth, turn over the car keys, blah blah blah...

I guarn-fucking-tee you she will discover boundaries in a hot second.



GotSteel -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 3:15:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW
My partner accused me of unfairly judging her. She doesn't bring this illicit drug into my house.

Can you be sure? As you point out she's using an addictive drug and you perhaps have reason to suspect that she's not the best at respecting rules on account of the whole drug dealer thing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW
I showed her the webistes of what this drug does to people. It's the second most addicting drug and destroys the body and mind. She said she isn't responsible for other people's choices. If I'm such a judging jerk, why don't I go after people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, etc?

I don't know how to respond to this last statement. How would you?

I don't know that you need to, sure you could the statement is flawed, but I expect doing so might be missing the point entirely. I would suspect that she's formed an attachment to this girl and is having an understandable emotional reaction to her being taken away. I'd worry about responding to that more than what she actually said in the heat of the moment.



DarkSteven -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 3:36:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW

We started playing with a female submissive. She would come to our house and we always had a great time. She is a college student, nice and easy to communicate with. The last time she was here she said she uses an illicit drug, as well as deals in it. It helps pay her college bills.

I don't ever want her in my house again and I told her I consider her one of the lowest life forms because the product she is peddling kills people.

My partner accused me of unfairly judging her. She doesn't bring this illicit drug into my house. I showed her the webistes of what this drug does to people. It's the second most addicting drug and destroys the body and mind. She said she isn't responsible for other people's choices. If I'm such a judging jerk, why don't I go after people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, etc?

I don't know how to respond to this last statement. How would you?


You've got two issues.

1. Whether the sub can come over.

2. How decisions are made in your relationship.

The second is far more important.

Quit trying to win the argument. Quit with the websites. You're trying to use facts, and it's largely an emotional decision.

You need to at least show your partner that you're listening to her, even if the final decision goes against her.

If I were you, I'd call a two day moratorium on the issue, to let tempers cool. Then have each of you make a writing about how you feel about the sub. I would suggest the following topics:

1. How would I feel if the playtimes were to continue?
2. How would I feel if they were to stop?
3. Why does it matter to me so much whether they continue or not?

Once you're through writing, swap writings and have each of you see the other's POV. Then resume discussing.

Remember, the final result itself is not as important as how good both of you feel about it. Make an effort to understand her, and make sure she understands you.

"I consider her one of the lowest life forms because the product she is peddling kills people. "

Tone it down! You're not going to help things by talking like that.



dcnovice -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 3:52:02 PM)

FR

Independent of health/addiction concerns, my great fear is that having a drug dealer in your place could land you in some hot legal water.

Particularly if she has product samples with her.



MrJerryW -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 4:04:16 PM)

I understand that there are other issues, but for the sake of "intellectual discourse" or debate, how do I reply to her argument:

"I'm not responsible for people's choices. Why don't you go after people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, or go after the gambling establishment. They destroy lives. The reason you don't because they are not responsible for the choices other people make."

I understand that one could argue that those other items are legal but what you are selling is illegal. So your argument is weak and flawed.

So, when pot was illegal, that argument is weak for someone dealing pot. But now pot is legal so that argument is valid. If our laws changed, then her argument would be valid.

??



DaddySatyr -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 4:22:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW

I understand that there are other issues, but for the sake of "intellectual discourse" or debate, how do I reply to her argument:



You don't. The use and sale of illegal drugs are a hard limit for you. She wants hers respected, she has to respect your'n or she's not worth having around, anyway.



Michael



ExiledTyrant -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 4:28:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW

I understand that there are other issues, but for the sake of "intellectual discourse" or debate, how do I reply to her argument:

"I'm not responsible for people's choices. Why don't you go after people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, or go after the gambling establishment. They destroy lives. The reason you don't because they are not responsible for the choices other people make."

I understand that one could argue that those other items are legal but what you are selling is illegal. So your argument is weak and flawed.

So, when pot was illegal, that argument is weak for someone dealing pot. But now pot is legal so that argument is valid. If our laws changed, then her argument would be valid.

??


Okay, here's tha thing... you have to decide how ethical you intend to live your life. If she's your partner and her moral compass spins like an airplane prop, you're pretty screwed if yours does not match.

So she want's to blur lines... when does necropilia become acceptable? Bestiality?

I am a relationship champion. I think anyone in a good relationship has hit the lottery... however, relationships work best (with minimal risk of implosion) when your moral, ethical, blah blah blah are aligned. So the big question for you is, "She's blurring lines over NRE, where do the lines come into focus and just how blurry can they get?" Is she really and truly fucking another guy if he is only using the tip of his dick?



dcnovice -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 4:52:25 PM)

quote:

MrJerryW: So your argument is weak and flawed.

To me, few arguments are stronger than "Well damn, that bitch might land our sorry asses in jail!"*

Ymmv, of course. [:)]


*Please pardon the atypical profanity; I've been binge-viewing Wanda Sykes and Margaret Cho.



Gauge -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/9/2015 8:29:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW

My partner accused me of unfairly judging her. She doesn't bring this illicit drug into my house. I showed her the webistes of what this drug does to people. It's the second most addicting drug and destroys the body and mind. She said she isn't responsible for other people's choices. If I'm such a judging jerk, why don't I go after people who sell cigarettes, liquor, pot, etc?

I don't know how to respond to this last statement. How would you?



Simple answer:

I will cure what ails the world later. What I am dealing with right now is how this situation affects both of us currently. My disagreement with the drug they are using, and or selling is not at issue. It is my desire to not have a relationship with someone who does such things. It is not judgmental, it is a preference. How I view their choices is irrelevant to how I value our relationship together and whether or not I wish to continue involving someone that does something that I do not wish to be exposed to.

Edited to add: At least this is what I would have said. The opportunity to say those things may have been lost already.



GotSteel -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/10/2015 12:34:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrJerryW
I understand that there are other issues, but for the sake of "intellectual discourse" or debate, how do I reply to her argument:


I don't think you can because your position on this isn't intellectual, if it was you'd be able to articulate it. That you seem stumped leads me to expect that your reaction was also an emotional one. Now you can certainly put together an intellectual post hoc justification but that's just rationalizing.

If what you're looking for is a coherant intellectual morality, I don't think you'll get there by patching holes with rationalizations. I think you need to start at the beginning, what do you think morality is?



DesFIP -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/10/2015 6:51:09 PM)

You don't attempt to justify it. You just state that this is a hard limit for you.
And if she invites this woman over again, you will call the cops.

Or you call the police now, and it won't be a problem since she'll be in jail.



Awareness -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/10/2015 7:02:40 PM)

Your integrity is your issue. Your partner can like it or lump it.

The fact that she's defending this woman is serious cause for concern. I'd start looking into it, if I were you.



smileforme50 -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/10/2015 9:49:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

MrJerryW: So your argument is weak and flawed.

To me, few arguments are stronger than "Well damn, that bitch might land our sorry asses in jail!"*

Ymmv, of course. [:)]




THAT would be my argument....tobacco and alcohol are LEGAL. If this woman is selling illegal drugs as a way to help pay for school, and she never gets arrested....then she is lucky. Even if she never brings anything into your house, she is still putting you at risk for a HUGE headache if the polices ever catch her. If they have reason to start tracking her activities, and see her visiting you on a regular basis they could start wondering about you too.

Now....I am one of the last 5 people in the U.S. who actually still has at least some faith in our police and legal system in the U.S. But....there could still be an issue of "guilt by association"...and there is no reason for you to take such a risk.



ARIES83 -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/10/2015 10:00:22 PM)

No need to explain anything. If that's how you feel, it is what it is. Though if you do feel like your morality is inconsistent, then the answers you're looking for would most likely be found through introspection.



youthinkso121 -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/11/2015 5:29:14 PM)

forget it i might have misread.

If the explaining needs to be done to the partner not the added sub. He needs to prioritise what he wants in a partner.



JVoV -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/12/2015 12:03:27 AM)

FR

I'm confused as to how you can live with anyone without having at least a basic conversation about drugs first.



thishereboi -> RE: Judging & Dismissing Female Submissive (4/12/2015 4:25:28 AM)

If you don't want to be around her then that is your choice. Maybe next time you should have this conversation with a prospective play partner before you get into a relationship. Some people are very strict about drug use and others don't care as long as you don't do it around them. In this case it sounds like she didn't bring it around you and didn't use it around you. Now you don't mention what kind of drug it is so I can't say much more about that. From what I have read I would have to agree with your partner. It sounds like you are judging her. Especially the "lowest life forms" crack. Pick up a paper, there are a lot of people doing things that way over the top compared to this chick.




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