RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=-

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NookieNotes -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 8:26:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes I guess I don't see why it matters. If people want to do it, then they should be allowed to do it. Not necessarily on this site, if the rules are against it, but I don't see a point in railing against it. What others do in their personal lives and their decisions are not my concern. That they are free to make those decisions (however harmful they may be) is. Hi ya, I am not actually railing against it. I see this becoming more and more prevalent and it is flying the under the BDSM banner. So I ask, like I would any visitor to my house, who are you? I looked to find their fetish, how it works and how they fit into our BDSM community but found no references other than their own. I wasn't accusing YOU specifically of railing. I actually appreciate the discussion, I just don't really "get it." quote: I just want to see how this is part of BDSM . . . asking why they are here not elsewhere. Hmmm. Here is my thought on the question as you state it here... The D/s part. It is a dominance/submission thing. Not necessarily sexual, but a thrill or a rightness of the power exchange. Not necessarily BDSM, but kink, and that's where the big melting pot comes into play. Sites for BDSM are used as sites for kink, and kink covers a lot of areas, fetish or no. quote: I don't care that they do what they do. I care that we call a spade a spade. I don't even think it is a harmful practice, except to those who are mentally unbalanced and can't budget their pleasures accordingly. Giving money to girls is an age old practice. Financial domination seems much more innocuous than practices like drug use, predation or prostitution which I feel is mostly harmless. Those all hid in our community under false pretense at one time until exposed. At one time drug use, prostitution and predation were so rampant David Stein wrote a safe practices speech and coined the term SSC. I see the practice of financial domination adopting our BDSM banner and simply ask how it is a BDSM fetish before we let this one in the door because it seems it isn't defined as a fetish by any of the sources we normally use to define fetishes. That may change in the future. The more I look at this and read about the extreme cases of addictive personalities that had problems with it, it seems their problems were rooted in self esteem and they were drawn in by the humiliation. So if humiliation is the root of it for most FD participants, I would understand it as a fetish. Just like a proDomme, they are providing a humiliation service. So far we have had glimmer of insight about the power exchange aspect (thank you for your reply): "I don't think about someone buying my shoes while I'm having sex nor do I get sexually aroused when I recieve a package but I do get happy and excited. I enjoy power and being in power is something that I find to be sexually exciting. So I suppose the overall power exchange is the fetish." Like Guage, I await the voices of more participants who have an understanding of what a fetish is so they can articulate it further for us. The biggest obstacle I see is that like the proDomme arena, you also have several business women who only got involved because they are motivated by earning money. Pretending to be a Domme to earn cash is worlds apart from a Domme that makes money doing what she loves and is already motivated by the BDSM aspects of it. Unfortunately financial domination is cash-centric, doesn't require intimate personal contact and that makes it more appealing and easier for those only motivated by the business opportunity. Their presence makes it even harder to weed through and find the fetish aspect because for them, there is no fetish, it's strictly a business. I get this. smiles

littleladybug -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 8:43:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist So I ask, like I would any visitor to my house, who are you? I looked to find their fetish, how it works and how they fit into our BDSM community but found no references other than their own. Is it really your house? Do you have the ability to deny someone entry?

ResidentSadist -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 9:19:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist So I ask, like I would any visitor to my house, who are you? I looked to find their fetish, how it works and how they fit into our BDSM community but found no references other than their own. Is it really your house? Do you have the ability to deny someone entry? No individual has the power to deny entry, but they have the power to ask questions about what makes a fetish tick. And yes, this is most definitely my playground as it is yours too. In respect to that playground, I have put my money where my mouth is by dedicating years of my financial and corporate resources to helping support my local community. I was a spokesperson interviewed by the press in the 70s. In the 90s I hosted a free BDSM information website. In the 2000s I donated website hosting for a couple of our local Florida BDSM societies. And for my local town of Sarasota, I built their web and sat on the board for a term of 5 years writing newsletters, sponsored workshops, financed and staffed the society monthly parties at a rented public dungeon and reserved a room at the Steak and Ale for our munches with my CC as the minimum guarantee. I've been helping build this "house" since the 70s. And like all of you that participate in these forums or your local community, this is our house.

dreamlady -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 9:42:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant How do you feel about: Strippers Cam girls Peep shows Sex shows Porn I don't feel that any of them, Fin/pig as well, has anything to do with BDSM, but were you have deviant minds you'll have deviants. Not unless "cheap thrill" has become a non-vanilla fetish or kink. [:-] I have seen profiles pop up where an on-line "Domme" will sell her used panties or stockings for those with panty-sniffer and pantyhose fetishes. Somehow, catering to specific fetishes, whether it involves humiliation or providing fetish object gratification (visuals with feet and shoes), is providing a kink service. How to sift the sex industry entrepreneur who's just in it for material gain, or the sex shop owner out to turn a profit selling sex toys, from those who derive personal pleasure as an "amateur," is a tough call. If you love what you do for a living and are fortunate enough to get paid for doing what you enjoy, does that make you less of a professional? No, you're still conducting business. I'm sure there are strippers and burlesque dancers who love what they do, artisan craftsmen and vendors who take pride in their work providing handmade floggers, paddles, building stockades and St. Andrews crosses. If you are providing a product or service at a cost, then you're no longer an amateur or a hobbyist. The difference would be if there is an ad hoc transaction taking place, whether this results in a satisfied customer or one who feels he got ripped off by a scam artist or con [wo]man. Even tipping is an appreciative transaction, after-the-fact or otherwise a good-faith gesture with no strings attached. It should come as no surprise to most adults that there is a commercial side to BDSM, and let the buyer beware. I do have to say that being a BDSM provider with customers and clients is BDSM business-related. . . and playacting at D/s, but not an actual or genuine D/s dynamic. (Could that be considered a fetish paraphilia under roleplay?) Not unless the professional arrangement blurs the lines into a personal relationship of a more private nature, and this does happen, ethical considerations aside. (For those men who are still clueless, taking a woman out on a date is not a business transaction which entitles you to the purchase of her affections, not even a hug or first-date kiss. Then there are some who presume that the equivalent of leaving a "tip" in the form of meeting for coffee or a drink, and/or sharing a snack or appetizer is sufficient. If they didn't have to dig into their pocket at any additional expense, then they feel as if they really got over, the ones who expect their dates to pay Dutch -- nothing broadcasts Only Wanna NSA Fuckbuddy/part-time piece on the side/Fantasy pseudo-Mistress/pretend slavegirl louder. [8\|] Treating all women like bartered sex workers is a surefire way to alienate half of the adult population of the human race.) quote: That'll be $20.00, please and thank you. You'll have to put that on my account. [;)] DreamLady

ExiledTyrant -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 9:48:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady Treating all women like bartered sex workers is a surefire way to alienate half of the adult population of the human race.) DreamLady Wait a minute... are you saying that if I let you clean my house and bang you out for a job well done, that you are officially a bartered sex worker?

MariaB -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 9:54:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali I'm a Fin Domme and I've been on this site for a few years now. I almost never send out the first message to potential submissives. I've maybe done it a dozen or so times since I've been on here and it was because their profile very specifically said they were seeking the same thing as me. I wrote an individual letter to them, not a copy and paste one. But 99.9% of the time they come to us. Maybe there are girls sending out thousands of copy/paste letters to every single submissibe man on this site but If they are its news to me. I've talked to many other Fin Dommes who have said the same. I do, however, get hundreds of copy/paste messages from men asking me if I'll look at their embarrassing photos or something. So I suppose it goes both ways. And you clearly have an interest in BDSM or you wouldn't be joining in forum discussions. Here lies the difference between you and the hundreds of young women on this site who only come here to ply their trade. Its good to hear you aren't sending out hundreds of letters to unsuspecting male subs but I know it happens because I am part owner of another fetish site and as an administrator who has to deal with the continuous complaints from male subs or deal with excessive spam mails, usually sent by financial Dommes to site members, I can tell you without doubt that it happens a lot. Before I pro Dommed I was on the scene. I was still on the scene whilst working as a pro Domme and I'm still on the scene long after selling off my dungeon. I pro Dommed because I could and I think the majority of Fin Dommes do this because they can. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Giving a service to a fetishist in return for goods is a great way to make money/gifts. Good for you, go for it; I did and I'm not ashamed to say it. I still find myself wondering though, is it a fetish for the fin Domme or is it a business like it is for a pro Domme? Does it matter if its a fetish or not? not really but I for one remain continually curious. Interesingly we have never had a discussion regarding pro domination being a fetish. Seems a little unfair doesn't it? I mean, why are pro Dommes accepted onto the house of BDSM whilst Fin Dommes still have this big question mark pinned on them at the door?

Gauge -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 10:03:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Interesingly we have never had a discussion regarding pro domination being a fetish. Seems a little unfair doesn't it? I mean, why are pro Dommes accepted onto the house of BDSM whilst Fin Dommes still have this big question mark pinned on them at the door? Because one is tangible and the other is ambiguous.

Gauge -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 10:08:28 AM)
One other point that I have yet to bring up is that financial domination appears to be a one way street, meaning simply that it appears that the dominants are exclusively female and the submissives are exclusively male. I find that to be oddly out of proportion respective to other parts of BDSM. (In before ET declares himself the first male financial dominant)

ExiledTyrant -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 10:12:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge One other point that I have yet to bring up is that financial domination appears to be a one way street, meaning simply that it appears that the dominants are exclusively female and the submissives are exclusively male. I find that to be oddly out of proportion respective to other parts of BDSM. (In before ET declares himself the first male financial dominant) Pfftttt... I demanded tribute many posts ago... slacker!

dreamlady -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 10:31:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge One other point that I have yet to bring up is that financial domination appears to be a one way street, meaning simply that it appears that the dominants are exclusively female and the submissives are exclusively male. I find that to be oddly out of proportion respective to other parts of BDSM. Let's not overlook this current thread on Masters asking for gifts. http://www.collarchat.com/m_4793649/tm.htm In this case, a middle gender aspiring to get a sex-change operation, and an on-line Dom wanting electronics sent to him in advance of his "offer." Clearly a scam (which could work both ways with these kinds of scenarios). quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant Wait a minute... are you saying that if I let you clean my house and bang you out for a job well done, that you are officially a bartered sex worker? I regret to inform you that my profile states right there under "Hard Limits" that I don't clean anyone's house except my own. (Seriously, I really did list nsa housework as a hard limit since I wouldn't accept such an offer to allow some unhired stranger access into my home. Damn, I even clean up after Merry Maids because nobody meets my exacting standards. [:D]) DreamLady

littleladybug -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 10:33:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist No individual has the power to deny entry, but they have the power to ask questions about what makes a fetish tick. And yes, this is most definitely my playground as it is yours too. In respect to that playground, I have put my money where my mouth is by dedicating years of my financial and corporate resources to helping support my local community. I was a spokesperson interviewed by the press in the 70s. In the 90s I hosted a free BDSM information website. In the 2000s I donated website hosting for a couple of our local Florida BDSM societies. And for my local town of Sarasota, I built their web and sat on the board for a term of 5 years writing newsletters, sponsored workshops, financed and staffed the society monthly parties at a rented public dungeon and reserved a room at the Steak and Ale for our munches with my CC as the minimum guarantee. I've been helping build this "house" since the 70s. And like all of you that participate in these forums or your local community, this is our house. And, I've decided that the "community" is not a place that I want to be. Frankly, people's CV's within the community don't particularly impress me. Do what you want to do, I don't particularly care-- until such time as it becomes a fucking pissing contest. Are you saying that because you have done all of these things, you somehow have standing to tell others what belongs in "the house"? That because you have done all of these things, you have some ability or standing to tell people if their fetish is "acceptable"? Nah. I don't buy it. Here's why. I was involved with my local community back about 15 years ago. What I learned, from all of these people who had "credentials" is that they are speaking from their own experience-- and by and large, have serious issues with accepting people who might not follow their same path. What I learned from them is that if I don't follow a specific path (like by being a pain slut), I'm simply a "pretender". I'm still in touch with one person from "that group", and dang-- we laugh heartily at how I have evolved. To the point where I consider myself my man's "slave". It makes some in that community twitch to know that. If it's not already apparent, I am loathe to put people on pedestals. And, in the case of wiitwd, especially so. As far as I am concerned, findomination is one of the more innocuous aspects. And, I do have to question those who would take such umbrage at it. Does this really "lessen" your own relationship in any way?

ResidentSadist -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 11:33:10 AM)
Wow . . . I am truly sorry you have so many personal issues with past rejection. I hope you get that worked out one day. Perhaps that explains your confrontational nature. Had I known you were just dropping off topic troll bait looking for an argument and not taking a side bar, I wouldn't have replied. My bad, won't happen again.

littleladybug -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 11:37:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist Wow . . . I am truly sorry you have so many personal issues with past rejection. I hope you get that worked out one day. Perhaps that explains your confrontational nature. Had I known you were just dropping off topic troll bait looking for an argument and not taking a side bar, I wouldn't have replied. My bad, won't happen again. Was this in response to me? ETA: If it was, I forgot to add my most humble, abject apologies to those who would take offense at what just a simple sub, such as myself would say. I always forget that part. Sorry about that.

ThePrincessKali -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 3:03:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge One other point that I have yet to bring up is that financial domination appears to be a one way street, meaning simply that it appears that the dominants are exclusively female and the submissives are exclusively male. I find that to be oddly out of proportion respective to other parts of BDSM. (In before ET declares himself the first male financial dominant) I can't find the specific thread but I have seen quite a few fetishes that seem to be predominately male driven. For example sissification. I have seen a few women on here say that they enjoy it but it's predominately male driven. What about pantyhose fetishes or panties? I have yet to find a women who enjoys sniffing used boxers. Does that make it any less of a fetish? There are a handful of Doms who expect gift or tribute just as there are probably a handful of women who enjoy sissification. But IMO there are quite a few fetishes that are more specific to one gender.

ThePrincessKali -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 3:06:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali I'm a Fin Domme and I've been on this site for a few years now. I almost never send out the first message to potential submissives. I've maybe done it a dozen or so times since I've been on here and it was because their profile very specifically said they were seeking the same thing as me. I wrote an individual letter to them, not a copy and paste one. But 99.9% of the time they come to us. Maybe there are girls sending out thousands of copy/paste letters to every single submissibe man on this site but If they are its news to me. I've talked to many other Fin Dommes who have said the same. I do, however, get hundreds of copy/paste messages from men asking me if I'll look at their embarrassing photos or something. So I suppose it goes both ways. And you clearly have an interest in BDSM or you wouldn't be joining in forum discussions. Here lies the difference between you and the hundreds of young women on this site who only come here to ply their trade. Its good to hear you aren't sending out hundreds of letters to unsuspecting male subs but I know it happens because I am part owner of another fetish site and as an administrator who has to deal with the continuous complaints from male subs or deal with excessive spam mails, usually sent by financial Dommes to site members, I can tell you without doubt that it happens a lot. Before I pro Dommed I was on the scene. I was still on the scene whilst working as a pro Domme and I'm still on the scene long after selling off my dungeon. I pro Dommed because I could and I think the majority of Fin Dommes do this because they can. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Giving a service to a fetishist in return for goods is a great way to make money/gifts. Good for you, go for it; I did and I'm not ashamed to say it. I still find myself wondering though, is it a fetish for the fin Domme or is it a business like it is for a pro Domme? Does it matter if its a fetish or not? not really but I for one remain continually curious. Interesingly we have never had a discussion regarding pro domination being a fetish. Seems a little unfair doesn't it? I mean, why are pro Dommes accepted onto the house of BDSM whilst Fin Dommes still have this big question mark pinned on them at the door? I agree regarding Pro Domination isn't discussed as much. Maybe because it's a service that's paid for however with Findom it's the actual paying part that is the fetish? I honestly just think people get so riled up because they feel like the Fin Domme's are getting something for nothing and it really really bothers people. Which for real Fin Dommes (not the 18 year old Fin ducks who for the record I find incredibly annoying because they make the rest of us look bad,) is not. We do put in time and effort. And yes I do have an interest in BDSM. I engage in my own personal life but it's not something I seek out on this site.

Gauge -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 3:19:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali I can't find the specific thread but I have seen quite a few fetishes that seem to be predominately male driven. For example sissification. I have seen a few women on here say that they enjoy it but it's predominately male driven. What about pantyhose fetishes or panties? I have yet to find a women who enjoys sniffing used boxers. Does that make it any less of a fetish? There are a handful of Doms who expect gift or tribute just as there are probably a handful of women who enjoy sissification. But IMO there are quite a few fetishes that are more specific to one gender. I will agree with you to a point. We are talking dominants and submissives. Financial domination being the operative word, implying that there are financial submissives. If you have financial dominants, then I do not believe that it would be a gender thing but rather a personality trait as dominance as well as submission tends to cover both sexes. Some fetishes are indeed gender specific (with mild exceptions), however dominance and submission is universal. Interestingly enough, the financial dominants that are here and participate on these boards and practice FD also practice other avenues of kink and not just FD. While these folks that breeze in here looking for their "pay piggies" seem to simply claim they are financial dominants only and have no other interests which I find odd as well. Additionally, please don't get defensive, I am not saying anything one way or another about financial domination and its specific validity. I too am trying to understand and perhaps help define the topic, that means I am going to ask questions. Some of those questions might come off as my being against financial domination when I have stated already that I am pretty neutral about the subject as a whole. It is a curiosity that I wish to understand. Edited for clarity

ThePrincessKali -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 4:37:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali I can't find the specific thread but I have seen quite a few fetishes that seem to be predominately male driven. For example sissification. I have seen a few women on here say that they enjoy it but it's predominately male driven. What about pantyhose fetishes or panties? I have yet to find a women who enjoys sniffing used boxers. Does that make it any less of a fetish? There are a handful of Doms who expect gift or tribute just as there are probably a handful of women who enjoy sissification. But IMO there are quite a few fetishes that are more specific to one gender. I will agree with you to a point. We are talking dominants and submissives. Financial domination being the operative word, implying that there are financial submissives. If you have financial dominants, then I do not believe that it would be a gender thing but rather a personality trait as dominance as well as submission tends to cover both sexes. Some fetishes are indeed gender specific (with mild exceptions), however dominance and submission is universal. Interestingly enough, the financial dominants that are here and participate on these boards and practice FD also practice other avenues of kink and not just FD. While these folks that breeze in here looking for their "pay piggies" seem to simply claim they are financial dominants only and have no other interests which I find odd as well. Additionally, please don't get defensive, I am not saying anything one way or another about financial domination and its specific validity. I too am trying to understand and perhaps help define the topic, that means I am going to ask questions. Some of those questions might come off as my being against financial domination when I have stated already that I am pretty neutral about the subject as a whole. It is a curiosity that I wish to understand. Edited for clarity I don't think any of your questions are offensive and I think that by asking questions in an open minded manner it helps people to understand. And unfortunately I think a lot of fin subs don't participate on the boards because they feel embarrassed or nervous about being chastised, which is unfortunate as I wish some of the fin subs that I have met through this site would put in their two cents but I think its something that won't happen until financial domination is a little more accepted.

Elnard -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 5:35:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge One other point that I have yet to bring up is that financial domination appears to be a one way street, meaning simply that it appears that the dominants are exclusively female and the submissives are exclusively male. I find that to be oddly out of proportion respective to other parts of BDSM. (In before ET declares himself the first male financial dominant) Bingo. This is why this is one instance where it's not about kink acceptance, it's about protecting straight male subs and putting a foot down and pushing against this findomme stuff ever being accepted in the community. It is a one way street, fin"subs" don't enjoy it. They recognize patterns, that they only gain any response attention when there is a dollar sign attached to get their message through the door. How many female subs have to tribute female dommes to get an in? Didn't think so. It's a predatory practice based on horribly skewed and under-represented ratios of male slaves to female dominants. This is why there are no male findoms. Because the practice itself is so farcical there has to be a completely unsustainable ratio in play for someone to give up money just for a chance to be acknowledged. This is the problem and this is how it differentiates from kink acceptance. Rather than "findomme acceptance" I advocate male sub acceptance, treating them like actual human beings instead of ignoring their words unless there's a tribute attached to the front. Short of getting more actual lifestyle females who are not lesbians into the community, the only way to remove these predators if the numbers can't be skewed by adding women is to take an abrasive stance against the practice itself.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 5:54:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elnard quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge One other point that I have yet to bring up is that financial domination appears to be a one way street, meaning simply that it appears that the dominants are exclusively female and the submissives are exclusively male. I find that to be oddly out of proportion respective to other parts of BDSM. (In before ET declares himself the first male financial dominant) Bingo. This is why this is one instance where it's not about kink acceptance, it's about protecting straight male subs and putting a foot down and pushing against this findomme stuff ever being accepted in the community. It is a one way street, fin"subs" don't enjoy it. They recognize patterns, that they only gain any response attention when there is a dollar sign attached to get their message through the door. How many female subs have to tribute female dommes to get an in? Didn't think so. It's a predatory practice based on horribly skewed and under-represented ratios of male slaves to female dominants. This is why there are no male findoms. Because the practice itself is so farcical there has to be a completely unsustainable ratio in play for someone to give up money just for a chance to be acknowledged. This is the problem and this is how it differentiates from kink acceptance. Rather than "findomme acceptance" I advocate male sub acceptance, treating them like actual human beings instead of ignoring their words unless there's a tribute attached to the front. Short of getting more actual lifestyle females who are not lesbians into the community, the only way to remove these predators if the numbers can't be skewed by adding women is to take an abrasive stance against the practice itself. I wouldn't sweat it, man. This will dry up as fast if not faster than the casino industry.

Gauge -> RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soapbox)=- (4/13/2015 6:03:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elnard Bingo. This is why this is one instance where it's not about kink acceptance, it's about protecting straight male subs and putting a foot down and pushing against this findomme stuff ever being accepted in the community. Huh? Since when is it incumbent on a community to protect someone who is willingly participating in something that is, for all intensive purposes, harmless? quote: It is a one way street, fin"subs" don't enjoy it. Then why do they do it? quote: They recognize patterns, that they only gain any response attention when there is a dollar sign attached to get their message through the door. Who recognizes patterns? The subs? What does this even mean? Are you suggesting that male submissive men with the financial kink desire learn that unless they send money there will be no response? Aren't they basically told that up front... even though it is against the rules of this site? quote: It's a predatory practice based on horribly skewed and under-represented ratios of male slaves to female dominants. I would say that predatory is entirely too harsh of a word, opportunistic may be the better choice. I will also reiterate that if one willingly opens their wallet and gives someone money, and it is basically harmless, how is the practice at all predatory? quote: This is why there are no male findoms. Because the practice itself is so farcical there has to be a completely unsustainable ratio in play for someone to give up money just for a chance to be acknowledged. Or, there could just be a bunch of horny guys willing to pay someone to get off. So what? Who exactly does this hurt? Perhaps it impacts how BDSM is viewed, but I think that most folks already have an understanding about what they want to do within the confines of BDSM. If that means they want to hand money to someone, that's OK with me... I need my money thank you very much. quote: This is the problem and this is how it differentiates from kink acceptance. Rather than "findomme acceptance" I advocate male sub acceptance Male subs are accepted folks around these here parts and when I say parts I mean pretty much worldwide. quote: treating them like actual human beings instead of ignoring their words unless there's a tribute attached to the front. But those seeking financial domination may not want to feel like actual human beings. They might well want to feel like an ATM machine. quote: Short of getting more actual lifestyle females who are not lesbians into the community There are plenty of lifestyle female dominants that are not lesbians. Plenty. quote: the only way to remove these predators if the numbers can't be skewed by adding women is to take an abrasive stance against the practice itself. As you have just done? In a thread that is trying to understand and classify the practice, your post is the most critical, harshly worded one of the bunch. Is this the way you propose we treat financial dominants simply because you do not agree with the practice? Again, if it harms nobody, who cares?

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