RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (Full Version)

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MercTech -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 1:59:58 PM)

Do psychoactive substances have an effect on testing ability? Hell yeah!
Why is anyone surprised? Ever take an exam with a hangover?

Pot has some analgesic and vasodilation value (it is good for migraines, guys). And, it seems to be good for nausea from chemotherapy. It got put on controlled lists to satisfy certain political policies back in the 1930s along with cocaine. So cheap medications are forbidden and we have to use lesser substitutes that cost more.

On the other hand, you would not expect to be able to think clearly taking pot, lortab, or many pain relievers taken in recreational dosages.




RockaRolla -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 2:16:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well alcohol is here to stay and there is nothing we can do about it... sooooo....


And why do you think that is?

The US has tried that before with failure. I'm not saying "people break the law so let's make it legal," I'm saying "Prohibition did more harm than good and we seem to think trying again with a new substance will work." Definition of insanity, anyone?




smileforme50 -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 2:33:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would assume that you are not ingesting drugs to bring on your seizures. But there is something to say about taking legal drugs than operating machinery that could injure others.

Butch


No....as a matter of fact....when I was a child of 7 or 8, my father explained to me that seizures were something that happened in the brain, and he also explained to me that illicit drugs made people feel 'good" because they did something in a person's brain. He told me to put 2 an 2 together to realize that if I ever wanted to try any illicit drugs....even pot.....they may have a harmful effect on me because of my history of seizures.

While I learned many years later that that isn't necessarily true, it was certainly enough to keep me away from even wanting to experiment and find out if he was right.

And I don't hold it against him and I don't regret it.




Charles6682 -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 3:47:16 PM)

Let's just be clear. Pot isn't "harmless" but it not as harmful as some legal drugs can be, like alcohol, cigarettes and oxycodone can be. I believe pot should be legal but warning should be made clear. Cigarettes kill a lot more people. Ever see what long term drinking does to a alcoholic? Ever seen the addicted addict coming off of pain killers. Pot certainly has its side effects too. Memory loss isn't really anything new. That said, the reason to keep it illegal on such grounds feels like the old 1930's and the "Reefer Madness" logic. Some states have already legalized pot for recreational reasons, many more for medical marijuana and some decriminalized small amounts of pot long ago. I don't drink alcohol anymore, I haven't smoked weed in a long time and I finally was able to quit cigarettes a few months ago. I know the personal cost of doing all 3. If someone told me I had to pick 1 out of the 3 ever again, I would smoke a joint in no time. Lock people in jail for smoking a little weed but its okay to promote alcohol on TV, billboards, radio ads and etc. Pot should be regulated just like alcohol is. No smoking and driving, no smoking in public parks. Just like drinking and driving is illegal and drinking in public parks in most places is illegal too, except for public events. Common sense usually prevails in the end.




slvemike4u -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 8:17:02 PM)

Lets just be clear....I'm not a scientist ,and I've never played one on TV either.
I have been,an continue to be,a recreational pot user since the age of 14.
So far,so good....my brain still seems to be working but I'm not fully satisfied that enough data has been collected....so I'll continue to do my research.
Someone has to do it,why not me.
AS soon as all the data is in I'll be back here and publish my findings.....if I remember [8|]



Anyone have any cookies.


Butch,if I have to I'll drive with a pot head any day of the week rather than a drunk.
Much more likely to survive any accident with the stony.....nothing bad happens at under twenty miles an hour [:)]




DesFIP -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 8:39:11 PM)

Actually, seen from a public health pov, prohibition was successful. Deaths from alcohol went down enormously.

It was a failure from a law enforcement view, and of course the majority of citizens wanted their drug of choice back and voted to repeal it.




slvemike4u -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 8:51:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Actually, seen from a public health pov, prohibition was successful. Deaths from alcohol went down enormously.

It was a failure from a law enforcement view, and of course the majority of citizens wanted their drug of choice back and voted to repeal it.

Being the number one income stream for a nascent organized crime apparatus came with a cost too [8|]




epiphiny43 -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 8:59:29 PM)

Deaths from whiskey driving may have gone down. Alcohol poisoning (Methanol) went Way up. My Father opined at least as much bootleg was drunk in his county (Amarillo environs) as before. Certainly no one at his HS drank less than they could afford. He was almost an alcoholic by graduation but sobered up for Engineering school.
I really doubt small town America saw any real drop in drunk driving deaths or total intake. Poor folk drive less than employed? The Depression did more for 'safety' than Prohibition.
All at considerably cost in many ways to peace, good government and citizenship. Where organized crime got it's hands around the neck of people in the US everywhere. Even Texas noticed general political corruption increasing. And there were pretty few 'virgins' in local govt. before.




JVoV -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/13/2015 11:57:02 PM)

An interesting poll about marijuana in 3 key swing states.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2183

I know here in Florida, more people voted for medical marijuana than for either candidate for Governor.




NookieNotes -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 2:11:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

So, are we not speaking about the same thing?

Yeah, I realize this is a divisive issue, but shouldn't people on the same side of the fence "stick together", as it were?



I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I was merely clarifying my statement. If you'd be so kind as to say that another way, perhaps I will be able to answer.


I was unclear when I initially asked. Now it's become abundantly clear. It seems to me that we are speaking about the same thing.

*smiles*


Awesome. *smiles*


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I have never been drunk.


Right, now you're frightening me.


I am the debil! RAWR! LOL!




ORDominantM -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 5:42:01 AM)

Ok, for those who can't properly interpret the abstract of the original study:

"Although the results MAY be compatible with a causal hypothesis, we must consider that the observed cannabis-related shape differences in the hippocampus could also be explained as biomarkers of a neurobiological susceptibility to poor memory or the effects of cannabis"

It says there is correlation, NOT causation! It MAY be compatible with a causal hypothesis, and it MAY not! THAT'S NOT MY INTERPRETATION... IT IS THAT OF THE AUTHORS OF THE STUDY!

THUS, THE ORIGINAL "I knew it, pot makes you stupid" HEADLINE OF THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS MOOT!

Abnormalities in this area of the brain may increase the likelyhood of regular cannabis use... at least as plausible as pot making people stupid. I am fairly confident MAJORLY NOT STUPID MAJOR POT-HEAD Carl Sagan would agree with that. :-)




MariaB -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 5:58:41 AM)

The thing about cannabis is, it comes in many forms, from its natural form to one of its many hybrids. I've spent a lot of Time in Amsterdam where I could walk into a cannabis shop and choose something high or low in THC or high in cannabidiol and CBN is known not to cause memory loss... Study... The assistant is their to help anyone who is having difficulty with their choice. Do they need a good nights sleep? Do they need to feel more awake? Do they want to feel spaced out or not? I have used the buds of the cannabis plant on many occasions when I've had to stay up all night. Because they are high in cannabidiols I don't feels spacey, anxious or sleepy, like I would if I was smoking something high in THC.

Because you can only buy cannabis in the UK from backstreet dealers, they will try and sell you shite. There's no good customer service; nobody asking what you want to get out of it. People who can't get a decent bit of green find themselves turning to 'skunk' and imo that stuff can have some nasty long term side effects. They will tell you about all their other delights. Why not try the blue pill or the pink one? We may even be tempted to come away with a little powder.

Pure Cannabis needs to be legally available because like others have said, its the only way to control the good stuff from the bad. Keep the kids away from the dealers and educate them with the real facts about pure cannabis.




ORDominantM -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 6:12:27 AM)

Also, from the Colorado Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area August 2013 report:

Unless they are testing for actual active psychoactive cannabinoids in the blood stream, they are not testing for "drugged driving" as far as cannabis goes.

The testing done is normally for THC-COOH, a non active liver metabolite of THC... Which stays in the body at detectable levels for anywhere from 20 to 120 days! This is like attributing traffic fatalities to alcohol any time the person has been drunk during the last 20-120 days.

"From 2006–2011, drivers testing positive for marijuana involved in fatal vehicle crashes more than doubled in those six years."

Absolute rubbish. All this says, is that in a state where cannabis was now legal for medicinal use, the number of people who had used cannabis in the last 20-120 days before a fatal accident doubled. Not suprising, and not evidence of any sort of causation...

Here is a fairly good (and more recent) article that takes a less hysterical interpretation of the facts surrounding post cannabis legalization traffic fatality data than the "war for the prohibition of some drugs industrial complex" funded RMHIDTA can be trusted to.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/08/05/since-marijuana-legalization-highway-fatalities-in-colorado-are-at-near-historic-lows/




thishereboi -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 6:24:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think there have been many studies that show use of pot DOES often lead to harder drugs... I would be interested to know how legalization of pot has affected hard drug use in the states that have legalized it...I may have to do a little research.

Butch


I know there have been a lot of studies that show people who use hard drugs often started with pot. That does not prove to me that the pot was the reason they went to harder drugs. I think they were looking for a way to escape and pot was the cheapest and easiest to buy so they started with that. It didn't do enough so they moved up the ladder. If there hadn't been any pot available I doubt they would have just given up and learned to deal with life sober.

the study you mentioned did sound interesting. I wonder if you could get a grant for that.




MariaB -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 6:29:47 AM)

I tried harder drugs when I was younger. Not that I went out looking for them but because they were readily available from a dealer.




thishereboi -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 6:39:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Soyokaze


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes but you cannot have it both ways... statistics show that people on drugs are among the top causes of fatal auto accidents...and I do believe I read that auto accidents from impaired driving went up in Colorado after legalization of pot. I am not comparing the risk of alcohol use and pot...but I am saying this study does show significant adverse effects of pot on the body... take it or leave it i guess.

Butch


Please link to these studies rather than just talking about believing in them. The people driving on drugs are still doing that now...


I did a quick google and according to the sites I found...

http://www.drivers.com/article/1173

1 distracted driving 2 speeding 3 drunk driving

It was short and didn't mention other causes.

This one has the same 3 on top and adds drugs as number 15

https://seriousaccidents.com/legal-advice/top-causes-of-car-accidents/


15. Driving Under the Influence of Drugs
It’s not only alcohol that is dangerous when mixed with drivers on the road. Drugs, both legal and illegal, can impair your ability to fully function as a driver. If your mind isn’t clear and you don’t have complete control over your body, getting behind the wheel can lead to serious car accidents.






ORDominantM -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 7:10:28 AM)

Also, anyone wishing to learn about why cannabis has so many people reporting such broad ranging medicinal benefits from it's use as an effective treatment in most any chronic, metabolic disease you can name, from diabetes and cancer, to Chron's, IBS, lupus, COPD, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimers, and MANY more...

Learn what you can about the endocannabinoid system. Recently discovered in the mid 1980's, when scientists finally found the receptors THC acts upon, and the cannabinoids our own bodies make. Even doctors being trained today aren't being taught about it, so with a few hours of reading, you'll probably be wiser than your MD!.

It's general function is to maintain homeostasis (Balance within safe operating limits) for systems throughout our bodies, ranging from the cellular to the organ and macro level... Energy metabolism at the cellular level, balancing pro and anti-inflammatory immune responses, protection of nerve cells from excitotoxic damage, just about every organ function you can think of... pulse, respiration, other autonomic nervous system functions... ALL kept in balance by your endo-cannabinoids. The cannabis your body makes. If you give it the right nutritional support to do so.

You know those Omega EFA's your doctor knows are SO important to your health? He or she will likely not even realize that a major usage of them is to make the endo-cannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors.

Unfortunately the stigma that was given cannabis during the yellow journalism of the 20's and 30's that helped usher in the fraudulently instituted federal prohibition of all cannabis other than specially bred "ultra-low THC", prohibition compatible "industrial hemp" strains (Not cousins, not a separate species... SAME plant... it's ALL cannabis) is far from dead, as backward looking folks continue to believe that the medicinal effects are "minimal" and the hazards are large... which happends to be about as far from the truth as possible.

There is NO toxicity to cannabis that is not contaminated with externally produced compounds. Cannabinoids are even patented as neuro-protectants and anti-oxidants by none other than the US Department of Health and Human Services, under US Patent # 6630507.

Read Granny StormCrow's List for a broad overview of the peer reviewed and published science so far as to cannabinoids and various diseases.

http://grannystormcrowslist2014.webs.com/

An interesting sentence about Acetaminophen, and how it doesn't even do the work of relieving your pain... Your own endocannabinoid Anandamide does: "Acetaminophen, on the other hand, is transformed by your body into a compound called AM-404, which blocks the break-down of anandamide, your body’s own version of THC. Just like THC, anandamide makes you “feel good” and decreases pain. Blocking the break-down of the fragile anandamide by AM-404 results in more anandamide being in your body, relieving your pain. The acetaminophen, itself, does nothing to relieve your pain!"

For a great overview of the functionality of the endocannabinoid system, and thus the medicinal value of cannabis, check out this video of dual PhD (Non-linear Thermodynamic Physics and Microbiology) Dr. Robert Melamede, who has been collecting and interpreting the peer reviewed science on cannabis and cannabinoids for the last 40 years.

He is, in my opinion, uniquely qualified to understand the complex workings of the complex array of medicinal compounds in cannabis, and their effects within the the complex, chaotic, dynamic system that is the human body.

The lecture is titled "The Holistic Biochemistry of Cannabinoids" and while a good portion of it is hypothesis based on Dr. Melamede's review of the literature through the lens of his own expertise in related areas, much of it is bearing out to be true.

http://www.veoh.com/m/watch.php?v=v18546849b5ZAj4zC

Bottom line is that those whose profit streams are threatened by cannabis legalization, from drug warriors, to private prison corporations, to drug test manufacturers, to addiction treatment providers, to food, fiber, fuel, and medicine producers and those influenced by them, ALL are stuck in a backward looking position, and fighting to protect their existing profit streams from changes that most forward looking people would view as positive.

They will continue to cherry pick data and methodologies to "prove" that the sky is going to fall if we free this plant.


All this said, I am not for legalization, or decriminalization. I staunchly and unwaveringly support FULL REPEAL of the fraudulently instituted federal prohibiton we've lived under since 1937, followed by complete deschedulling from the Controlled Substances Act. Any other option leaves patients and recreational users arguing over how much, of what type, for whom, and under what circumstances, ad infinitum. We have had 78 years of this fraudulent prohibition not working, and not protecting anyone... More than enough to know that no matter HOW many dollars and drug warriors we throw at it, people will continue to make the safer choice...

Perhaps it's time we stopped throwing them in jail and stealing their property through civil forfeiture for it.




ORDominantM -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 7:31:48 AM)

And once fully legal, no self dis-respecting illicit drug dealer will have anything to do with it. The money won't be there.

Cannabis it's self does not lead to the use of harder drugs... Buying cannabis from an illicit drug dealer who also sells that other stuff does.

It really doesn't need that much regulation. Can't drive on it if you can't pass a performance based test for impairment. (This should really be what we do with all drugs, including legal pharma ones.)

Can't give it to any minor without express parental permission, and regulations for testing on cannabis flower or concentrates being provided to others for medicinal use at any price including free, and any sold for recreational use.

That's it ^^^ pretty much all the regulation this plant needs.




MercTech -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 1:33:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

[image]http://www.thehighdefinite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/brainondrugs.jpg[/image]



Now I'm channeling my grandfather and his love of pork brains in scrambled eggs.




PeonForHer -> RE: I knew it...Pot makes you stupid (4/14/2015 3:15:11 PM)

FR

Hmm.

I remember once watching a programme about a woman who'd been 'hooked' on dope but had later weaned herself off it. She said, 'When I was stoned, I lost my ambition and my drive; I never wanted to compete and no desire to win.' She had all such dynamic qualities back now, she claimed ... though she was now anorexic and in and out of various clinics on a regular basis. In short, to me, she was the perfect example of the reason why hippies got stoned and 'turned on, tuned in and dropped out' in the first place.

Is it *always* and *completely* true that being lazy, uncompetitive - and, yes, even having a poor memory and being a wool-head - is a bad thing? I mean, sometimes, I do think, would I care if I were lazy, useless, amnesiac and air-headed - but happy?

But, yes, yes, I know, maybe not.




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