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MercTech -> Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 10:41:07 AM)

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/middle-school-student-charged-with-cyber-crime-in-holiday/2224827

Don't play harmless pranks on teachers or you will get a felony record. Another attack on a student because the administration at his school is clueless.

This so reminds me of a manager that would call IT screaming his computer had been hacked every time we changed his wallpaper. He couldn't change it back. And, always left his computer up with a four hour time out to log in screen. He hated having to fish out his wallet to enter his password.




Aylee -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 10:44:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/middle-school-student-charged-with-cyber-crime-in-holiday/2224827

Don't play harmless pranks on teachers or you will get a felony record. Another attack on a student because the administration at his school is clueless.

This so reminds me of a manager that would call IT screaming his computer had been hacked every time we changed his wallpaper. He couldn't change it back. And, always left his computer up with a four hour time out to log in screen. He hated having to fish out his wallet to enter his password.


Sounds like the kid read "Ender's Game" one too many times. LOL

I think the criminal charges and 10 day suspension is excessive. Obviously they should have fixed their security after the first incident.




MercTech -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 10:59:24 AM)

I still say that punishment for changing a fellow's wallpaper should be more like one day detention. But, the teacher that used his last name for a password should get worse.




joether -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 12:17:17 PM)

The kid broke a serious law. He knew it was wrong to do, and did it anyways to 'get even' with some teacher he didn't like.

Even if the password is "....1,2,3,4,5...." it is....STILL...wrong and apparently illegal to tamper. The kid is not sorry that he did it, but that he got caught doing it.

The kid in the video stated he didn't know it was illegal or wrong to do; the mother states this charge is beyond reasonable. The reporter, however, states he was suspended for three days last year for doing the same shit. So the kid and the mother are full of shit!

Also sounds like that school system's password policy needs to be heavily updated.




kdsub -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 12:33:24 PM)

Didn't the article say he had previously hacked the system?... Unless i am mistaken this will all go away when he is 21.. will it?

Butch




joether -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 12:53:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Didn't the article say he had previously hacked the system?... Unless i am mistaken this will all go away when he is 21.. will it?


Depends on how the laws were written. In many cases, laws broken while one is under 18 are forgotten upon reaching that milestone in life; unless the crime is close to the 18th birthday or is REALLY hellish. Course if he were caught after being 18 or over with the same or similar crime; things will not likely go his direction in a court room.




MercTech -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 1:51:19 PM)

joether - the law was written with draconian interpretations that never should have been there. The school administration decided to turn a harmless prank into a felony charge so far above and beyond punishment befitting the crime it was ludicrous.

The crime:
The Pasco County Sheriff's Office has charged Domanik Green, an eighth-grader at Paul R. Smith Middle School, with an offense against a computer system and unauthorized access, a felony. Sheriff Chris Nocco said Thursday that Green logged onto the school's network on March 31 using an administrative-level password without permission. He then changed the background image on a teacher's computer to one showing two men kissing.

Felony charges for changing wallpaper picture. Be realistic; prank not felony. The school administration demonstrates a level of incompetence at dealing with students as well as incompetence at password control on their computers.

As to juvenile convictions going away; kinda sorta maybe, but not really. Juvenile convictions won't show up on a routine check. But, as many have found to their dismay, they pop right up for background checks for a security clearance. And, not mentioning criminal convictions, even sealed juvenile records, will get you prosecuted for falsification of records in attempt to gain a security clearance.

The last time I looked; we don't prosecute people for what they might do but what they did do. The kid changed wallpaper on his teacher's computer. He didn't change grades. He didn't download a test bank. The most he is guilty of is being a passive aggressive twit. The kid didn't even hack the system. He logged in with the official admin password.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 5:08:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
joether - the law was written with draconian interpretations that never should have been there. The school administration decided to turn a harmless prank into a felony charge so far above and beyond punishment befitting the crime it was ludicrous.
The crime:
The Pasco County Sheriff's Office has charged Domanik Green, an eighth-grader at Paul R. Smith Middle School, with an offense against a computer system and unauthorized access, a felony. Sheriff Chris Nocco said Thursday that Green logged onto the school's network on March 31 using an administrative-level password without permission. He then changed the background image on a teacher's computer to one showing two men kissing.
Felony charges for changing wallpaper picture. Be realistic; prank not felony. The school administration demonstrates a level of incompetence at dealing with students as well as incompetence at password control on their computers.
As to juvenile convictions going away; kinda sorta maybe, but not really. Juvenile convictions won't show up on a routine check. But, as many have found to their dismay, they pop right up for background checks for a security clearance. And, not mentioning criminal convictions, even sealed juvenile records, will get you prosecuted for falsification of records in attempt to gain a security clearance.
The last time I looked; we don't prosecute people for what they might do but what they did do. The kid changed wallpaper on his teacher's computer. He didn't change grades. He didn't download a test bank. The most he is guilty of is being a passive aggressive twit. The kid didn't even hack the system. He logged in with the official admin password.


I'm on the side that a felony is a far cry from appropriate in this case.

I did find this funny: "charged ... with an offense against a computer system." Now, a computer system has rights?!? Is this just the next baby step towards SkyNet?!?




Aylee -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 6:59:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri


I did find this funny: "charged ... with an offense against a computer system." Now, a computer system has rights?!? Is this just the next baby step towards SkyNet?!?


I, for one, welcome our new cybernetic overlords.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 7:51:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I did find this funny: "charged ... with an offense against a computer system." Now, a computer system has rights?!? Is this just the next baby step towards SkyNet?!?

I, for one, welcome our new cybernetic overlords.


Are you thinking Borg, or CyberMen?




slvemike4u -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 7:55:25 PM)

Doesn't matter,she lives in fly over country....it will be years before the cybernetic overlords even realize people live there.
She has no worries at all [:D]




Aylee -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 8:01:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Doesn't matter,she lives in fly over country....it will be years before the cybernetic overlords even realize people live there.
She has no worries at all [:D]


I am only an hour from the Sea-Tac area. I think that the cybernetic overlords KNOW where Microsoft is.




Aylee -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 8:03:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I did find this funny: "charged ... with an offense against a computer system." Now, a computer system has rights?!? Is this just the next baby step towards SkyNet?!?

I, for one, welcome our new cybernetic overlords.


Are you thinking Borg, or CyberMen?




Skynet and Cyberdyne Systems. Luckily I am NOT named Tara Conner.




slvemike4u -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/13/2015 8:59:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Doesn't matter,she lives in fly over country....it will be years before the cybernetic overlords even realize people live there.
She has no worries at all [:D]


I am only an hour from the Sea-Tac area. I think that the cybernetic overlords KNOW where Microsoft is.

If your not on either coast....you just don't count.
Sorry,I don't make the rules,I just come along and point them out [:)]


edited for a missing r [:)]




Aylee -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/14/2015 12:06:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Doesn't matter,she lives in fly over country....it will be years before the cybernetic overlords even realize people live there.
She has no worries at all [:D]


I am only an hour from the Sea-Tac area. I think that the cybernetic overlords KNOW where Microsoft is.

If your not on either coast....you just don't count.
Sorry,I don't make the rules,I just come along and point them out [:)]


edited for a missing r [:)]


Pac NorWest. I haven't been in KS for a year. [:)]

Sea-Tac = Seattle Tacoma.

Pac NorWest - Pacific NorthWest.

30 minute drive to the beach. Less to rivers.




joether -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/14/2015 3:57:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
joether - the law was written with draconian interpretations that never should have been there. The school administration decided to turn a harmless prank into a felony charge so far above and beyond punishment befitting the crime it was ludicrous.


The law was written to explain that such an action is not allowed and carries a penalty for breaking it. You can call it 'draconian' all you want. The point is, the kid and his mother knows he broke the law. And that there was a law that could be broken if he was caught. Well, he was caught 'red handed' and charged with the crime (which the school system is allowed to press charges).

The school administration did not prank the kid. The kid broken into the system, tampered with material without authorization, and tried to place a public person in a compromising situation. The kid did this sort of thing a few months earlier as was given a three day suspension. Evidently he didn't learn the lesson; so the penalty is increased. Kind of like with drunk driving as a teenager. The first action is serious; the second action makes the first look like a picnic! The reason for the stiff penalty is to discourage the behavior.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
The crime:
The Pasco County Sheriff's Office has charged Domanik Green, an eighth-grader at Paul R. Smith Middle School, with an offense against a computer system and unauthorized access, a felony. Sheriff Chris Nocco said Thursday that Green logged onto the school's network on March 31 using an administrative-level password without permission. He then changed the background image on a teacher's computer to one showing two men kissing.

Felony charges for changing wallpaper picture. Be realistic; prank not felony. The school administration demonstrates a level of incompetence at dealing with students as well as incompetence at password control on their computers.

As to juvenile convictions going away; kinda sorta maybe, but not really. Juvenile convictions won't show up on a routine check. But, as many have found to their dismay, they pop right up for background checks for a security clearance. And, not mentioning criminal convictions, even sealed juvenile records, will get you prosecuted for falsification of records in attempt to gain a security clearance.


You can try to change things however you want. The facts however remain the same. The kid broke the law and is now being charged. He knew months earlier that doing so could land him in to legal problems. But, as a teenager, felt he wouldn't be caught. That the issue was harmless. That its the school's fault for not making a password on the level of the NSA's security. Unfortunately for the kid, the law was broken and now he'll have to face the matter in court.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
The last time I looked; we don't prosecute people for what they might do but what they did do. The kid changed wallpaper on his teacher's computer. He didn't change grades. He didn't download a test bank. The most he is guilty of is being a passive aggressive twit. The kid didn't even hack the system. He logged in with the official admin password.


We do charge people with stuff they might do.....conspiracy, attempted murder, attempted manslaughter, attempted burglary, etc.....

The kid was not authorized to be on the computer. Would be the same if he broke into a teacher's office to steal some pencils and erasers. That too would be against the law! Your stating the kid's motivation was not evil or destruction. Prove it! The kid has a motive for the action, the means to accomplish it, and not much wisdom to consider the problems if he was caught. And he was caught! Its an 'open & shut' case for the prosecution here. Either the defense will 'plead down' on lesser charge(s), or be stupid.




Aylee -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/14/2015 5:28:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joetherThe kid has a motive for the action, the means to accomplish it, and not much wisdom to consider the problems if he was caught. And he was caught! Its an 'open & shut' case for the prosecution here. Either the defense will 'plead down' on lesser charge(s), or be stupid.



And that is why he should not be charged and tried as an adult.

There is also the fact that he may not have known it was "illegal." Against school policy. . . sure. A felony? Unlikely.

I dislike laws where one does not know something is illegal. The prosecutorial discretion in this case needs to be revisited.

I also see no benefit to the child or society for introducing him to the criminal justice system.




MercTech -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/14/2015 11:07:16 AM)

Some may rant about their totalitarian heaven. For my part I will still oppose totalitarian laws and insane interpretations of laws in order to criminalize citizens.
To arrest someone on felony charges for a benign prank that can be erased in less than five seconds betrays the whole concept of of government for the people.




joether -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/14/2015 1:47:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
The kid has a motive for the action, the means to accomplish it, and not much wisdom to consider the problems if he was caught. And he was caught! Its an 'open & shut' case for the prosecution here. Either the defense will 'plead down' on lesser charge(s), or be stupid.

And that is why he should not be charged and tried as an adult.

There is also the fact that he may not have known it was "illegal." Against school policy. . . sure. A felony? Unlikely.

I dislike laws where one does not know something is illegal. The prosecutorial discretion in this case needs to be revisited.

I also see no benefit to the child or society for introducing him to the criminal justice system.


Being ignorant of the law is not a 'good enough' defense in a court room. Many tens of thousands of cases prove that already. This kid would have been told when he got the three day suspension that such action is not allowable. Most school systems have a 'chain of events' that take place with offenders. The first offense is serious, but its 'a walk in the park' compared to the second time the offender acts. Notice the kid nor the mother are stating this, nor showing they received written documentation explaining the previous offense and what would happen if the kid did the same or similar again. The school would have given that information to both of them when the first offense took place.

That because he's a sweet looking boy, he should not be given a harsh treatment due to the crime? There are plenty of psychotic killers whom were handsome/beautiful; should they have a lesser sentence on each crime they were accused of because of personal looks?

You want to argue the law itself? Take it up with the Florida Legislature. They are the ones that decide on how a law is applied and the penalty unleashed. To that above and below the age of 18.




Aylee -> RE: Clueless attacks on student... (4/14/2015 2:08:11 PM)

actus reus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea




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