quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Tkman, about twenty years ago I had an intern work for me right out of college. She had an actual degree in the environment. Yet, she didn't take one physics class, she didn't take one chemistry class, she had no math classes, she spent four years being proselytized to about the environment. In your "environmental sciences" degree that you're part way through, may I ask how many semesters of organic chemistry you've had?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Tkman, about twenty years ago I had an intern work for me right out of college. She had an actual degree in the environment. Yet, she didn't take one physics class, she didn't take one chemistry class, she had no math classes, she spent four years being proselytized to about the environment. In your "environmental sciences" degree that you're part way through, may I ask how many semesters of organic chemistry you've had?

Reminds me of shepherding around some environmental science interns last summer. Seniors almost ready to graduate with a B.S. in environmental science but when queried on what the environmental hazard there was to the chemicals they were checking their soil samples for; not a clue. They were dumbfounded when I showed them how to look up a chemical abstract online and see what the hazard was and how much was required to present a hazard.

We all giggled at looking up distilled water.... it has a hazard class when you get to the 5000 gallon quantity. (fish kill if released into a waterway, messes up the electrolyte balance of the fish)

They were startled that motor oil has no hazard class in less than multiple drum quantities but used motor oil has a hazard class in quart quantities. (picks up wear products of lead, cadmium, and chromium when run through an engine)

They were hell on wheels at identifying plant types and knowing what soil conditions were necessary for various undergrowth flora though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Those darn fundamentalists are at it again:

"Months of massive threats and hostility had driven an internationally es-teemed scientist like Nikos Logothetis into a corner. The motion calls this “a sad demonstration of the damage fundamentalist fury can do to individual scientists and to the science endeavour at large.”

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/militant_animal_rights_activists_have_won_a_battle_against_science-155395

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Those darn fundamentalists are at it again:

"Months of massive threats and hostility had driven an internationally es-teemed scientist like Nikos Logothetis into a corner. The motion calls this “a sad demonstration of the damage fundamentalist fury can do to individual scientists and to the science endeavour at large.”

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/militant_animal_rights_activists_have_won_a_battle_against_science-155395

Typical conservative. Assuming a token moment is reflective of the whole. Likewise, didn't bother to give the whole of the understanding to explain the most common questions.

Why was this scientist taking this action?

What sort of research specifically was this scientist performing?

The activist understand that this research will contuine in countries with less animal rights/welfare laws? That those countries will even treat activists like terrorists rather than concern individuals to the treatment of animals?

How much research did you perform on this material?

I can understand the activist's position and the scientist's. But neither seem to concern you; only in finding something that supports your narrow viewpoints in reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-greens-back-door-at-the-epa-1431645574

quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

http://www.lung.org/about-us/financials/
ALA total most recent yearly funding: $52,000,000. Average for each of the past 10 years of total EPA $20,000,000 grants, $2 Million/yr. Claiming any BBB audited and passed charity is owned by a roughly 1/20th-of-funding contributor over a decade is hardly persuasive propaganda or showing those arguers in a favorable light.
More reasonable is a govt. bureaucracy is helping fund certain education outreach and science research Because that is now being done better in the private sector already and often at both lower cost and better outreach. NGOs are private sector, whether multi-nationals like being lumped in with groups that may actually be working for all people or the whole planet, or not. The US and Great Britain have historically been the birth place for the very concept of NGOs and the origin for many. That US 'Conservatives' find these so often odious as they don't have corporate financial agendas says maybe too much about underlying motives in US politics at variance with the ideals the country supposedly was founded on.
'Follow the money'? Much of ALAs funding comes from citizens with lung issues or their families, HMOs who see huge expenses in untreated lung diseases and pollution associated future cases, and medical charities trying to spread contributions where the needs are greatest and the results most promising for the dollar invested. The attacks on the ALA and EPA preponderantly are funded by wealthy individuals and industries currently making big profits on goods producing directly or as unavoidable by products things that unbiased evidence based medicine and epidemiology points at as direct risks to the general population and specific segments from those products and pollution. (Generally, the most vulnerable and damaged are the very young.) That these businesses have managed to co-opt a segment of the political spectrum in service of their financial goals in conflict with the health and overall economic competitiveness of the country is simply astounding.
The very same groups and people who managed to profit heavily and even establish a small industry to slow cigarette research and regulation for 2 generations after the evidence was conclusive are doing exactly the same with climate change and industrial pollution, as well as industrial agricultural chemicals and pesticides. When political attacks work better than good research, the country's basic ability to respond to challenges of any sort are compromised, a clear contradiction to the frequent assertion of many on the Right that they are the only true patriots??

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

The first time I used hydrogen peroxide for odor control I was amazed to find out that it was rocket fuel in high concentrations and closely regulated. I'd thought about the oxygen when added to hydrogen sulfide but had just never thought about where oxygen comes from in space. We all have little things like that. But, your point, and mine as well, is that having no basis for actually going, 'wow, of course you'd need accessible oxygen in space and this is a likely source' because you never had to take a chemistry class to graduate with a science degree is something else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

The first time I used hydrogen peroxide for odor control I was amazed to find out that it was rocket fuel in high concentrations and closely regulated. I'd thought about the oxygen when added to hydrogen sulfide but had just never thought about where oxygen comes from in space. We all have little things like that. But, your point, and mine as well, is that having no basis for actually going, 'wow, of course you'd need accessible oxygen in space and this is a likely source' because you never had to take a chemistry class to graduate with a science degree is something else.

Yeah... Hydrazine (H2N2) combined with 37% or higher Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is what fuels the space shuttle. 10ml of each in a steel planchet sends a plume of flame up 6 feet. (Bored techs are dangerous)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


First of all, while I'm not admitting anything at all, I have been in the bored tech place myself. Second, I thought it was 52% H2O2 but I'll defer to you're memory over mine. Wow, I just remembered all of the Daffy Duck and Three Stoogies stealing the secret rocket fuel shows I watched as a kid.