RE: Cops lives don't matter.

RE: Cops lives don't matter. (Full Version)

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JVoV -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 1:57:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: But what matters most, now that the suspects have been arrested, is making sure that they are brought to justice, without even a hint of wrong-doing any step of the way. What should matter most is... Why...so many black men are killing either themselves or others. But whoever asks this question will be accused of racism... So the question is never asked I'm going to say that right now, for the police & prosecutors, the absolute most important thing is making an air-tight case for capital murder, and getting justice for the slain officers. Black-on-black crime isn't new. And discussing it isn't racist. So feel free to join that conversation with community leaders in your own area. http://m.thenation.com/article/192361-about-black-black-crime 3. It is not a taboo. Anyone who seriously thinks that black people are not talking about black people killing other black people just doesn't know any black people. Black people talk about it a lot. They have a lot to talk about. But while black-on-black crime is a nonsense term, black crime is a serious issue. Black people may not be much more likely to kill members of their own racial group than whites, but they are still more likely to kill and be killed. It's not as though the black community hasn't noticed that. Most cities have several black-led organizations confronting this very thing. Nor do black people grieve according to some code of silence. Go to any inner-city church, youth club, park, concert, barbershop, beauty salon or high school basketball game and listen. Every now and then, like last year after Chicago high school student Hadiya Pendleton was shot, they even get a national platform to talk about it. And when they do, they seize it.

Politesub53 -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 2:33:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 No, get your own fucking link proving me wrong. That's pretty reasonably safe to say when you're demanding proving a negative. Masses is only the plural for mass. The term "mass meeting" in use in the Colonies some 40 years prior to 1776. IE a meeting of the masses. The notion of "Religion is the opiate of the people" was used by De Sade in one of his novels, written prior to 1850. De Sade said something akin to "This opiate you feed your people on" Andrew Johnson used the term, the great mass of American people in one of his speeches. Certainly by 1700 it was in use in both France and England. James Fenymore Cooper used it, so that must have been before 1850. Here is a rather appropriate one for you. "Since the masses are always eager to believe something, for their benefit nothing is so easy to arrange as facts" ~Talleyrand 1754-1838

HunterCA -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 2:36:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 No, get your own fucking link proving me wrong. That's pretty reasonably safe to say when you're demanding proving a negative. Masses is only the plural for mass. The term "mass meeting" in use in the Colonies some 40 years prior to 1776. IE a meeting of the masses. The notion of "Religion is the opiate of the people" was used by De Sade in one of his novels, written prior to 1850. De Sade said something akin to "This opiate you feed your people on" Andrew Johnson used the term, the great mass of American people in one of his speeches. Certainly by 1700 it was in use in both France and England. James Fenymore Cooper used it, so that must have been before 1850. Here is a rather appropriate one for you. "Since the masses are always eager to believe something, for their benefit nothing is so easy to arrange as facts" ~Talleyrand 1754-1838 Good job.

HunterCA -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 2:41:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: But what matters most, now that the suspects have been arrested, is making sure that they are brought to justice, without even a hint of wrong-doing any step of the way. What should matter most is... Why...so many black men are killing either themselves or others. But whoever asks this question will be accused of racism... So the question is never asked I'm going to say that right now, for the police & prosecutors, the absolute most important thing is making an air-tight case for capital murder, and getting justice for the slain officers. Black-on-black crime isn't new. And discussing it isn't racist. So feel free to join that conversation with community leaders in your own area. http://m.thenation.com/article/192361-about-black-black-crime 3. It is not a taboo. Anyone who seriously thinks that black people are not talking about black people killing other black people just doesn't know any black people. Black people talk about it a lot. They have a lot to talk about. But while black-on-black crime is a nonsense term, black crime is a serious issue. Black people may not be much more likely to kill members of their own racial group than whites, but they are still more likely to kill and be killed. It's not as though the black community hasn't noticed that. Most cities have several black-led organizations confronting this very thing. Nor do black people grieve according to some code of silence. Go to any inner-city church, youth club, park, concert, barbershop, beauty salon or high school basketball game and listen. Every now and then, like last year after Chicago high school student Hadiya Pendleton was shot, they even get a national platform to talk about it. And when they do, they seize it. All good points. But the problem with the points, in my mind, is that on one hand Eric Holder is saying we're a nations of cowards for not having a political discussion on race and the black community doesn't allow participation in that discussion, either, outside their community, or on any terms but their own as they've defined. Just as with posts in other places on Black Liberation Theology, if I have to discuss theology only within the confines of that specific theology, then the only solutions that become available are limited.

stef -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 3:19:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD There is a "hint" of misconduct every time a cop takes a breath. You're saying idiotic things again. You should try to stop that.

PeonForHer -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 3:37:39 PM)
FR Has there really been an increase in cop-killings as a result of targetted attacks - to be clear: assassinations, rather than deaths as a result of engaging in actions with crims that turned lethal? If so, this really is quite alarming. They call the police 'the thin blue line' for a reason: the control exerted by police depends on most of the population consenting to it. After a few too many un-righteous killings by cops - or rather too much publicity for same - it's bound to come to this. I'd add: especially in a society where the means to kill people easily and efficiently is widely available. As far as I can see, where trust in the police has broken down so much that people want to murder them and people have easy access to the means of killing people ... well, the police would have no chance.

BamaD -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 3:51:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD There is a "hint" of misconduct every time a cop takes a breath. You're saying idiotic things again. You should try to stop that. I grew up in a police family and speak from experience, you from your bias. Thanks for another laugh.

BamaD -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 3:58:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR Has there really been an increase in cop-killings as a result of targetted attacks - to be clear: assassinations, rather than deaths as a result of engaging in actions with crims that turned lethal? If so, this really is quite alarming. They call the police 'the thin blue line' for a reason: the control exerted by police depends on most of the population consenting to it. After a few too many un-righteous killings by cops - or rather too much publicity for same - it's bound to come to this. I'd add: especially in a society where the means to kill people easily and efficiently is widely available. As far as I can see, where trust in the police has broken down so much that people want to murder them and people have easy access to the means of killing people ... well, the police would have no chance. Yes, three in NYC alone. Add to this the increased assumption, due to it being pounded every day that the cops are going to beat or kill them for no reason. I was not talking just about assassinations , but the overall total lack of respect. As I pointed out repeatedly in this thread alone when cops abuse their power they should be dealt with accordingly. However when one cop abuses his power it doesn't not follow to taint his entire department or all cops in general with his act. It is like saying all Muslims are psycho killers because of Muslim extremists.

Politesub53 -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:04:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA Good job. Thank you.

JVoV -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:06:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR Has there really been an increase in cop-killings as a result of targetted attacks - to be clear: assassinations, rather than deaths as a result of engaging in actions with crims that turned lethal? If so, this really is quite alarming. They call the police 'the thin blue line' for a reason: the control exerted by police depends on most of the population consenting to it. After a few too many un-righteous killings by cops - or rather too much publicity for same - it's bound to come to this. I'd add: especially in a society where the means to kill people easily and efficiently is widely available. As far as I can see, where trust in the police has broken down so much that people want to murder them and people have easy access to the means of killing people ... well, the police would have no chance. Resisting arrest, or fear of being arrested during a routine traffic stop, is still the primary cause for police being murdered in the line of duty. There was a case in Pennsylvania last year where a guy specifically sought to "hunt" anyone with a badge. Of course, he was white, so that doesn't really help anyone's case of racial motivations.

JVoV -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:13:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Yes, three in NYC alone. Add to this the increased assumption, due to it being pounded every day that the cops are going to beat or kill them for no reason. I was not talking just about assassinations , but the overall total lack of respect. As I pointed out repeatedly in this thread alone when cops abuse their power they should be dealt with accordingly. However when one cop abuses his power it doesn't not follow to taint his entire department or all cops in general with his act. It is like saying all Muslims are psycho killers because of Muslim extremists. Three NY officers murdered? Since when?

Arturas -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:15:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Saturday evening two cops in Hattiesburg MS were murdered during a "routine" traffic stop. If they had managed to shoot the thug everyone would care, since only cops were killed apparently no one cares. I care. I am concerned they re being targeted. But they can handle themselves. I am concerned also the cops will stop doing their job for fear of being prosecuted. Perhaps the Madison decision will temper that fear.

JVoV -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:24:19 PM)
Peon, I missed a case in NY Dec 2014, a Baltimore gangmember travelled to NYC specifically to murder officers. And did, while they were in their patrol car. Scary shit. http://www.odmp.org/officer/22309-police-officer-rafael-ramos

BamaD -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:44:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR Has there really been an increase in cop-killings as a result of targetted attacks - to be clear: assassinations, rather than deaths as a result of engaging in actions with crims that turned lethal? If so, this really is quite alarming. They call the police 'the thin blue line' for a reason: the control exerted by police depends on most of the population consenting to it. After a few too many un-righteous killings by cops - or rather too much publicity for same - it's bound to come to this. I'd add: especially in a society where the means to kill people easily and efficiently is widely available. As far as I can see, where trust in the police has broken down so much that people want to murder them and people have easy access to the means of killing people ... well, the police would have no chance. Resisting arrest, or fear of being arrested during a routine traffic stop, is still the primary cause for police being murdered in the line of duty. There was a case in Pennsylvania last year where a guy specifically sought to "hunt" anyone with a badge. Of course, he was white, so that doesn't really help anyone's case of racial motivations. Disrespect for the law is not a racial trait, although most of the propaganda creates tension with the black community.

BamaD -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:45:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Yes, three in NYC alone. Add to this the increased assumption, due to it being pounded every day that the cops are going to beat or kill them for no reason. I was not talking just about assassinations , but the overall total lack of respect. As I pointed out repeatedly in this thread alone when cops abuse their power they should be dealt with accordingly. However when one cop abuses his power it doesn't not follow to taint his entire department or all cops in general with his act. It is like saying all Muslims are psycho killers because of Muslim extremists. Three NY officers murdered? Since when? Two right after Gardner, and one last week.

BamaD -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:47:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Saturday evening two cops in Hattiesburg MS were murdered during a "routine" traffic stop. If they had managed to shoot the thug everyone would care, since only cops were killed apparently no one cares. I care. I am concerned they re being targeted. But they can handle themselves. I am concerned also the cops will stop doing their job for fear of being prosecuted. Perhaps the Madison decision will temper that fear. And the irony is that if that they stop doing their job they and we will be in greater danger, but I think that was the implication in your post.

JVoV -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 4:55:05 PM)
There has been one officer killed in NY by gunfire so far this year. 4 in 2014. And exactly one in 2013. Eleven officers in NY have been killed by gunfire in the line of duty this decade. Obviously, one is too many, but it really isn't as commonplace as you make it out to be.

BamaD -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 5:01:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV There has been one officer killed in NY by gunfire so far this year. 4 in 2014. And exactly one in 2013. Eleven officers in NY have been killed by gunfire in the line of duty this decade. Obviously, one is too many, but it really isn't as commonplace as you make it out to be. Over half of those were last year, I was not talking about a vast number, but of a vast increase. And this proportional increase is repeated across the country. Keep in mind that from the NYPD population 4 is as if over 40,000 people were murdered last year, in NYC alone.

JVoV -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 5:33:35 PM)
I think you misunderstand the numbers. 1 in 2015 4 in 2014 1 in 2013. From all police departments in New York State, not just NYPD. 11 total since 2010. In this same period, 8 have been killed in automobile accidents, and 31 have died due to 9/11 related illness.

JVoV -> RE: Cops lives don't matter. (5/12/2015 6:02:53 PM)
Nationwide, it's a lot of the same. Police killed by gunfire in the line of duty: 10 in 2015 (to date) 47 in 2014 31 in 2013 48 in 2012 In 1988, 71 police officers were killed by gunfire in the line of duty. Again, one is too many. But progress is certainly being made. How about some historical reference? Let's break it down by President years in office. 310 under Obama (19ish months remaining) 438 under George W Bush 582 under Clinton 281 under George HW Bush (only one term) 747 under Reagan 415 under Carter (only one term)

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