RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed?

RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 4:50:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Why would you use an example the ramblings of Scalia? He goes on and on about the structure of government mandated in the Constitution and the division of power it creates. He holds this division as a guarantor of our democracy that separates us from other pretenders to true democracy. Then he rants against the 17th that in itself allows for division of power in states with single party majorities. In my state of Missouri without the direct election of Senators by the people the majority of the population, in big cities, would have no representatives in the Senate. Rural Republicans representing the minority of population would appoint Republican Senators ignoring the majority's wishes. Not good in my opinion...let the people speak. Butch When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner Wow, since you hate our country, why not move to North Korea? Then you wouldn't have the problem of a government designed to work for the majority of people.

Sanity -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 6:07:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Why would you use an example the ramblings of Scalia? He goes on and on about the structure of government mandated in the Constitution and the division of power it creates. He holds this division as a guarantor of our democracy that separates us from other pretenders to true democracy. Then he rants against the 17th that in itself allows for division of power in states with single party majorities. In my state of Missouri without the direct election of Senators by the people the majority of the population, in big cities, would have no representatives in the Senate. Rural Republicans representing the minority of population would appoint Republican Senators ignoring the majority's wishes. Not good in my opinion...let the people speak. Butch When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner Wow, since you hate our country, why not move to North Korea? Then you wouldn't have the problem of a government designed to work for the majority of people. Quit projecting on me. And I have very clearly illustrated the problem with pure democracy already, a problem which the founders sought to ameliorate with the form of government they devised

kdsub -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 7:21:48 PM)
No in Missouri we have one from each party Rual Missouri controls the legislature and the house reps...is that fair enough for you?

lovmuffin -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 7:24:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD It's Thursday so let's repeal the 2nd amendment. There's a measles outbreak so let's repeal the 2nd amendment. "The day ends with a y so lets hijack another thread for our mindless far left obfuscation crap" Whoms idea should we try first ? [8D]

BamaD -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 7:27:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD It's Thursday so let's repeal the 2nd amendment. There's a measles outbreak so let's repeal the 2nd amendment. "The day ends with a y so lets hijack another thread for our mindless far left obfuscation crap" Whoms idea should we try first ? [8D] lol

GotSteel -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 7:55:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity And I have very clearly illustrated the problem with pure democracy already, a problem which the founders sought to ameliorate with the form of government they devised We don't have a pure democracy, no one's suggesting that we get a pure democracy. Its a red herring in this conversation, really just you ranting consense. You're suggesting that we break the form of government we do have, I'm suggesting that we might be happier if you left America to the real Americans. And also making a point that governments which are made to work for some fringe minority instead of the majority have a notable tendency to work quite poorly for the majority of citizens.

cloudboy -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 8:11:05 PM)
Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is: (1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East. (2) The Pacific Ocean to the West (3) Canada to the North (4) Mexico to the South -------- With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world. --------- I would also go the other way from Scalia, b/c I think we need better government, not weaker government. If I was to monkey with Congress I would: Double the number of House Reprentatives and I would grant (1) extra senator to the ten most populous states and give Washington DC representation in Congress (house members and senators.)

BamaD -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 8:17:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is: (1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East. (2) The Pacific Ocean to the West (3) Canada to the North (4) Mexico to the South -------- With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world. By free you must mean not dominated by another country.

BamaD -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 8:21:16 PM)
Joe I use the 17th and 2nd 'deal' to get your attention at how important the 17th amendment actually is to America. Since some like to use 'Capitalism' as our form of currency, there is a cost to removing the 17th amendment. That cost is the removal of the 2nd amendment. If you want it badly enough, you'll agree to remove the 2nd..... They are not related, there is no connection, you are not in a position to make such a deal and no sane person would consider it. But then anything to get rid of the 2nd amendment.

HunterCA -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 8:27:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is: (1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East. (2) The Pacific Ocean to the West (3) Canada to the North (4) Mexico to the South -------- With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world. --------- I would also go the other way from Scalia, b/c I think we need better government, not weaker government. If I was to monkey with Congress I would: Double the number of House Reprentatives and I would grant (1) extra senator to the ten most populous states and give Washington DC representation in Congress (house members and senators.) By idiot you mean not agreeing with "me" and my very small group of kool aide drinking buddies who meet in my garage once a month and talk down the "Man". Right?

HunterCA -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 8:34:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterCA quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is: (1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East. (2) The Pacific Ocean to the West (3) Canada to the North (4) Mexico to the South -------- With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world. --------- I would also go the other way from Scalia, b/c I think we need better government, not weaker government. If I was to monkey with Congress I would: Double the number of House Reprentatives and I would grant (1) extra senator to the ten most populous states and give Washington DC representation in Congress (house members and senators.) By idiot you mean not agreeing with "me" and my very small group of kool aide drinking buddies who meet in my garage once a month and talk down the "Man". Right? I mean, you'd be right in there, Cloudboy, with the rest. Obviously Thomas is the stud. http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/ruth-bader-ginsburg-asks-someone-to-wake-her-when-scalia-stops-talking

Sanity -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 8:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Why would you use an example the ramblings of Scalia? He goes on and on about the structure of government mandated in the Constitution and the division of power it creates. He holds this division as a guarantor of our democracy that separates us from other pretenders to true democracy. Then he rants against the 17th that in itself allows for division of power in states with single party majorities. In my state of Missouri without the direct election of Senators by the people the majority of the population, in big cities, would have no representatives in the Senate. Rural Republicans representing the minority of population would appoint Republican Senators ignoring the majority's wishes. Not good in my opinion...let the people speak. Butch When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner Wow, since you hate our country, why not move to North Korea? Then you wouldn't have the problem of a government designed to work for the majority of people. Quit projecting on me. And I have very clearly illustrated the problem with pure democracy already, a problem which the founders sought to ameliorate with the form of government they devised For contextual clarity.

GotSteel -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/14/2015 9:10:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity For contextual clarity. [sm=rofl.gif] Wow is your head so full of consense that you think you've got some sort of a valid point... Even your attempt at "contextual clarity" is compromised by editing out one of my responses.

Sanity -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/15/2015 7:54:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity For contextual clarity. [sm=rofl.gif] Wow is your head so full of consense that you think you've got some sort of a valid point... Even your attempt at "contextual clarity" is compromised by editing out one of my responses. Youre higher than NASA's Voyager space craft Nothing was edited, you fool

Sanity -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/15/2015 8:05:45 AM)
FR To clarify my argument, and reduce the noise-to-signal ratio of the trolls here: Using the popular vote to choose a senator is still representative democracy, yes. Though it is closer to pure democracy than to have state representatives appoint senators A point well illustrated by the above arguments suggesting that choosing candidates via the popular vote gives more power to the majority over the minority Power to the majority being somewhat akin to mob rule in practice

mnottertail -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/15/2015 8:25:50 AM)
and minority rule is despotism, and dictatorship.

Sanity -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/15/2015 8:38:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail and minority rule is despotism, and dictatorship. If anyone here were arguing in favor of minority rule, you might almost have a point there Minority representation is the key issue here

mnottertail -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/15/2015 8:51:22 AM)
minorities are represented. The democratic minority is represented in the house and senate of America, even as we speak. Of course, we are being run by mob rule of the rabid right at present.

cloudboy -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/15/2015 9:25:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner Are you making an argument for affirmative action here?

GotSteel -> RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? (5/15/2015 9:26:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Youre higher than NASA's Voyager space craft Nothing was edited, you fool Except post 26 [8\|]

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