quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/02/13/3643845/jury-finds-both-hate-crime-defendants.html

A fairly open & shut assault case, but even with racial slurs during the altercation and other proof of racial bias, the Feds couldn't get a guilty verdict on the hate crime charges.

Indeed. So there are quite a few hurdles, some legal, some that may be completely extraneous, like the local (anti-Fed) prejudices as is suggested in this case, that need to be cleared before any thought of a hate crime loading to the sentence becomes a possibility.

This seems to confirm all the claims about thought crimes from the far Right etc are a tad hysterical.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Or we could stick to facts & precedence.

Like http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blakely_v._Washington

Blakely v. Washington, 542 U.S. 296 (2004), held that, in the context of mandatory sentencing guidelines under state law, the Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial prohibited judges from enhancing criminal sentences based on facts other than those decided by the jury or admitted by the defendant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/02/13/3643845/jury-finds-both-hate-crime-defendants.html

A fairly open & shut assault case, but even with racial slurs during the altercation and other proof of racial bias, the Feds couldn't get a guilty verdict on the hate crime charges.

Indeed. So there are quite a few hurdles, some legal, some that may be completely extraneous, like the local (anti-Fed) prejudices as is suggested in this case, that need to be cleared before any thought of a hate crime loading to the sentence becomes a possibility.

This seems to confirm all the claims about thought crimes from the far Right etc are a tad hysterical.

Rather, the case brings to light some more of the issues with hate crime laws. A black person gets into a bar fight in Boise, the knee jerk reaction on the part of the feds is, it has to be a hate crime because of the city the bar fight occurred in, and the skin color of one of the drunks. So the feds come in, and try to prosecute it as a hate crime. Try to give a guy 10 years in a federal pen for getting in a bar fight, because his skin is white...

The jury said, and those who attended the trial agreed, that there was no way the bar fight was a hate crime. The feds were out of their fucking minds.

Yet in D.C., where is the federal prosecutor who should be looking into the strong possibility that the torture and gruesome murder of a white family by a black man is a hate crime?

Hate crime laws appear to make ones skin color a factor in weighing guilt, which is an injustice. I disagree with the idea of thought crimes / hate crimes laws, but if theyre going to be on the books they really need to be prosecuted evenly across the board

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

So, you really don't have any links?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Bama, that's the case for many laws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I dont get your point. It seems obvious to me all prosecutions for hate crime need to establish intent. That is as true here in the UK as it is in the US.

That kinda was the point.

More importantly, a prosecutor must be able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, for a jury to return a guilty verdict.

What I don't know is if these can be separate charges or not, for the jury to decide. Risking a murder conviction because of overzealous prosecution seems irresponsible, if it's an all-or-nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Surely less irresponsible than always going for the easiest crimes to prosecute ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

So, you really don't have any links?

Who signed hate crimess into Texan law ? (do you need a reminder as to why it came about ?)

Was it:

A) Me
B) Gandhi
C) Obama
D) Rick Perry

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

So, you really don't have any links?

Who signed hate crimess into Texan law ? (do you need a reminder as to why it came about ?)

Was it:

A) Me
B) Gandhi
C) Obama
D) Rick Perry

Show me a link.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

So, you really don't have any links?

Who signed hate crimess into Texan law ? (do you need a reminder as to why it came about ?)

Was it:

A) Me
B) Gandhi
C) Obama
D) Rick Perry

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Surely less irresponsible than always going for the easiest crimes to prosecute ?

There can never be proper justice given by the courts in cases like these. No punishment horrible enough to fit the crime, even if we allowed cruel & unusual punishments. Nothing that can undo any of the suffering the family endured.

The horrific nature of the murders will motivate the prosecution to put forth the absolute best case that it can, and seek the absolute highest charge & sentence that the jurisdiction will allow.

No. I don't think it irresponsible to not charge the defendant(s) with a crime that cannot be proven beyond any reasonable doubt, and risk these bastards going free.

Ideally, the hate crime designation would come into play in the sentencing phase, and not be a part of the actual murder charge. Prosecutors could first prove the actual crime during trial, then use racial bias as reason to argue for a stiffer sentence, such as the death penalty where available.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

So, you really don't have any links?

Who signed hate crimess into Texan law ? (do you need a reminder as to why it came about ?)

Was it:

A) Me
B) Gandhi
C) Obama
D) Rick Perry

I'll take
E) Ann Richards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections/ref/ref101100hate.htm

The discussion of hate-crime legislation may have left voters more confused than enlightened. Gore, referring to a black man who was dragged to his death by three white men, said, "You know James Byrd was singled out because of his race, in Texas. And other Americans have been singled out because of their race or, or ethnicity. And that's why I think that we can embody our values by passing a hate crimes law."
Bush said, "We got one in Texas, and guess what? The three men who murdered James Byrd, guess what's going to happen to them? They're going to be put to death... It's going to be hard to punish them any worse after they get put to death....We're happy with our laws on our books."
Then-Governor Ann Richards (D) signed Texas's hate-crimes law in 1993.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Looks like they have this guy and who ever helped him dead to rights. And as I said earlier that will provide the maximum sentence allowed in DC. Since it will add nothing why muddy the waters. If the hate crime isn't part of the trial how can they be sentenced for a crime they haven't been convicted of. Hate crime isn't a special circumstance, it is a special law providing some people with more protection than others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

So, you really don't have any links?

Who signed hate crimess into Texan law ? (do you need a reminder as to why it came about ?)

Was it:

A) Me
B) Gandhi
C) Obama
D) Rick Perry

I'll take
E) Ann Richards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections/ref/ref101100hate.htm

The discussion of hate-crime legislation may have left voters more confused than enlightened. Gore, referring to a black man who was dragged to his death by three white men, said, "You know James Byrd was singled out because of his race, in Texas. And other Americans have been singled out because of their race or, or ethnicity. And that's why I think that we can embody our values by passing a hate crimes law."
Bush said, "We got one in Texas, and guess what? The three men who murdered James Byrd, guess what's going to happen to them? They're going to be put to death... It's going to be hard to punish them any worse after they get put to death....We're happy with our laws on our books."
Then-Governor Ann Richards (D) signed Texas's hate-crimes law in 1993.

quote:

It's going to be hard to punish them any worse after they get put to death....

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

So, you really don't have any links?

Who signed hate crimess into Texan law ? (do you need a reminder as to why it came about ?)

Was it:

A) Me
B) Gandhi
C) Obama
D) Rick Perry

Show me a link.