quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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Could we be any more of a cheerleader for the noble...nay...saintly Palestine?

i. Lo, quoth the Creator who is Dominant, let there be a Man who isuth made of Straw.
ii. And, verily, a Man of Straw was indeed created.
iii. And the Children of Israel looked up and rejoiced, for this was a miracle: a giant Man of Straw, made from Nothing at All.

:-)

You show me the "straw man" is and I'll acknowledge it. My commenting on her cheerleading is true...unless you don't consider tweaks statement a statement of support and encouragement to Palestine?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Could we be any more of a cheerleader for the noble...nay...saintly Palestine?

i. Lo, quoth the Creator who is Dominant, let there be a Man who isuth made of Straw.
ii. And, verily, a Man of Straw was indeed created.
iii. And the Children of Israel looked up and rejoiced, for this was a miracle: a giant Man of Straw, made from Nothing at All.

:-)

You show me the "straw man" is and I'll acknowledge it. My commenting on her cheerleading is true...unless you don't consider tweaks statement a statement of support and encouragement to Palestine?

Nobody but you has talked about 'noble' or 'saintly' Palestinians, CD.

As a general rule, I expect that the more people live harsh lives, the less noble they tend to act. That's actually quite a standard view of the world from many lefties.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Nobody but you has talked about 'noble' or 'saintly' Palestinians, CD.

As a general rule, I expect that the more people live harsh lives, the less noble they tend to act. That's actually quite a standard view of the world from many lefties.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Except the expansions came from territory taken when they were attacked. That's fair. It's how we got California.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Except the expansions came from territory taken when they were attacked. That's fair. It's how we got California.

No. I think we should give California back too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Nobody but you has talked about 'noble' or 'saintly' Palestinians, CD.

As a general rule, I expect that the more people live harsh lives, the less noble they tend to act. That's actually quite a standard view of the world from many lefties.

Any excuse for their bloodthirsty behavior will do, wont it

"The poor little darlings"

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I'm pretty sure that was irony to respond to Tweaks racist description of apartheid, ethnic cleansing, occupation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Except the expansions came from territory taken when they were attacked. That's fair. It's how we got California.

No. I think we should give California back too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Could we be any more of a cheerleader for the noble...nay...saintly Palestine?

i. Lo, quoth the Creator who is Dominant, let there be a Man who isuth made of Straw.
ii. And, verily, a Man of Straw was indeed created.
iii. And the Children of Israel looked up and rejoiced, for this was a miracle: a giant Man of Straw, made from Nothing at All.

:-)

You show me the "straw man" is and I'll acknowledge it. My commenting on her cheerleading is true...unless you don't consider tweaks statement a statement of support and encouragement to Palestine?

Nobody but you has talked about 'noble' or 'saintly' Palestinians, CD.

As a general rule, I expect that the more people live harsh lives, the less noble they tend to act. That's actually quite a standard view of the world from many lefties.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Nobody but you has talked about 'noble' or 'saintly' Palestinians, CD.

As a general rule, I expect that the more people live harsh lives, the less noble they tend to act. That's actually quite a standard view of the world from many lefties.

Any excuse for their bloodthirsty behavior will do, wont it

"The poor little darlings"

Nobody was excusing anybody either, Sanity. Come on. Try to keep up. :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Except the expansions came from territory taken when they were attacked. That's fair. It's how we got California.

No. I think we should give California back too.

Except most of the expansion occurred during the 1967 war, which Israel started.

And it's not fair. It's a blatant contravention of international law to acquire territory by military means. It doesn't matter who does it or why. It's a war crime.

Equally the 'settlements'/colonies are another blatant contravention of international law. Another war crime and recognised as such by just about every Govt in the world.

quote:

The Prewar Crisis

On May 13, 1967, Soviet officials informed the Syrian and Egyptian Governments that Israel had massed troops on Syria’s border. Though the report was false, Nasser sent large numbers of Egyptian soldiers into the Sinai anyway. On May 16, Egypt demanded that the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF), which had been deployed in the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip since 1957, withdraw from Israel’s border. Secretary-General U Thant replied that he would have to withdraw UNEF from all its positions, including Sharm al-Shaykh, which would put political pressure on Nasser to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping. Nasser remained adamant, and on May 22, after UNEF withdrew, he announced that he would close the Straits. In 1957, President Dwight D. Eisenhower had promised that the United States would treat the closure of the Straits as an act of war. Johnson now had three unwelcome options: to renege on Eisenhower’s promise, acquiesce in an Israeli attack on Egypt, or order U.S. forces to reopen the waterway.

Instead, the President played for time. He sought international and Congressional support for Operation Red Sea Regatta, which called for a coalition of maritime nations to send a “probing force” through the Straits if Egypt refused to grant all nations free passage through them. Simultaneously, Johnson implored the Soviets to intercede with Nasser and urged Israeli restraint. “Israel,” Johnson told Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban on May 26, “will not be alone unless it decides to go it alone.” Yet over the following week, the administration failed to gain domestic or foreign backing for “Regatta.” Meanwhile, Jordan joined the Arab coalition, heightening the pressure for an Israeli strike. Though Johnson continued to caution Israel against preemption, a number of the President’s advisors had concluded that U.S. interests would be best served by Israel “going it alone” by the time the Israelis actually did so.

The War and its Aftermath

Between June 5 and June 10, Israel defeated Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and occupied the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. From the beginning, the United States sought a ceasefire in order to prevent an Arab defeat bad enough to force the Soviet Union to intervene. U.S. officials were also concerned about alienating pro-Western Arab regimes, especially after Egypt and several other Arab states accused the United States of helping Israel and broke diplomatic relations. Yet after June 5, the administration did not also demand an immediate Israeli pullback from the territories it had occupied. U.S. officials believed that in light of the tenuous nature of the prewar armistice regime, they should not force Israel to withdraw unless peace settlements were put into place.

quote:

On June 11, a ceasefire was signed. Arab casualties were far heavier than that of Israel: less than a thousand Israelis had been killed compared to over 20,000 from the Arab forces. Israel's military success was attributable to the element of surprise, an innovative and well executed battle plan and the poor quality and leadership of the Arab forces. Israel seized control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula (from Egypt), the West Bank and East Jerusalem (from Jordan) and the Golan Heights (from Syria). The area under Israeli control tripled, significantly contributing to the country's defensibility, as would be shown in the subsequent Yom Kippur War. Although Israeli morale and international prestige was greatly increased by the outcome of the war, the resulting displacement of civilian populations would have long-term consequences. 300,000 Palestinians fled the West Bank and about 100,000 Syrians left the Golan to become refugees. Across the Arab world, Jewish minority communities were expelled. Israel made peace with Egypt following the Camp David Accords of 1978 and completeď a staged withdrawal from the Sinai in 1982. However, the position of the other occupied territories became a long-standing and bitter cause of conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, and the Arab world in general.

quote:

Much has been made of the Palestinian exodus of 1948. Yet during their decades of dispersal, the Palestinians have experienced no less traumatic ordeals at the hands of their Arab brothers. As early as the mid-1950s, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Libya expelled striking Palestinian workers. In 1970, Jordan expelled some 20,000 Palestinians and demolished their camps; in 1994-95, Libya expelled tens of thousands of long-term Palestinian residents in response to the Oslo process; and after the 2003 Iraq war, some 21,000 Palestinians fled the country in response to a systematic terror and persecution campaign. As recently as 2007, Beirut effectively displaced 31,400 Palestinian refugees when the Lebanese army destroyed the Nahr el Bared refugee camp during fighting between the militant Fatal al-Islam group and the Lebanese army.[1]

But the largest forced displacement of Palestinians from an Arab state took place in 1991 when Kuwait expelled most of its Palestinian residents in retaliation for the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) endorsement of Iraq's brutal occupation of the emirate (August 1990-February 1991). It mattered little that this population, most of which had resided in Kuwait for decades, was not supportive of the PLO's reckless move: From March to September 1991, about 200,000 Palestinians were expelled from the emirate in a systematic campaign of terror, violence, and economic pressure while another 200,000 who fled during the Iraqi occupation were denied return. By September 1991, Kuwait's Palestinian community had dwindled to some 20,000.


Yet while this expulsion was near the order of magnitude of the Palestinian 1948 flight (estimated by the Israeli government at 550,000-600,000 and by the Arab League at 700,000),[2] driving PLO chairman Yasser Arafat to declare that "what Kuwait did to the Palestinian people is worse than what has been done by Israel to Palestinians in the occupied territories,"[3] it was largely ignored by the international community with neither the U.N. Security Council nor the General Assembly doing anything to assist the newly displaced refugees and punish their ethnic cleanser.

quote:


Col. Moammar Gadhafi's decision to expel 30,000 Palestinians from Libya has been greeted with dismay in the Middle East, where Arab countries have no intention of opening their doors to the would-be settlers.

quote:


ON THE LIBYAN-EGYPTIAN BORDER, Oct. 4— Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, the Libyan leader, urged Arab countries today to follow his example and send home all Palestinians to expose what he said was Israel's plan to create a Palestinian state in name only.

quote:


Following the June 1967 Six Day War, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) established its major base of operations for the war against Israel in Jordan. Throughout the late 1960s, a cycle of Palestinian guerrilla attacks followed by Israeli retaliatory raids against Jordan caused much damage to Jordan and put major strain on Jordan’s relationship with the US and other Western countries. By 1970, it was widely believed that PLO leader Yasser Arafat and other factional heads were attempting to overthrow King Hussein, who viewed their operations against Israel as a threat to Jordan.

By 1970, Palestinians, both Jordanian citizens and refugees, were almost as numerous in Jordan as King Hussein's own Bedouins. Arafat used the estimated 20,000 Palestine Liberation Organization fighters in Jordan to exercise control over much of the Palestinian population. In many parts of the country, he was the de facto government. Jordan was seen as a waystation toward defeat of Israel and a united Palestinian Arab state encompassing Israel and Jordan. As many Palestinian Arabs put it: "the road to Tel Aviv lies through Amman"....

King Hussein decided it was time to act. Throughout September the Jordanian military launched attacks to push the PLO out of Jordan, attacks now called "Black September" by the PLO. Casualty reports are uncertain, but hundreds or perhaps thousands of PLO fadayeen were killed in the fighting and large numbers of Palestinian Arab civilians died as well. Arafat retreated to northern Jordan, close to his Syrian sponsors. Within 10 months the PLO were driven out of Jordan completely, and re-established themselves in Lebanon, a choice that led to eventual disaster for Lebanon.

quote:

The Golan Heights, is a narrow plateau on Israel’s northeastern border which Israel gained from Syria in the 1967 Six-Day War. Israel annexed the territory in 1981. Before 1967, Syria used the strategic advantage of the Heights to attack low-lying Israeli towns and villages in the Galilee, as well as to divert water flowing into Israel’s main water sources.

The four hundred-plus square-mile strategic plateau is 7.5-12.5 miles wide and is characterized by steep escarpments on its western, southeastern and southwestern exposures, overlooking much of northern Israel. The headwaters of the Jordan River and the Kinneret (Sea of Galilee) are located on the Golan, which traditionally provide Israel with over one-third of its water supply. The Golan Heights are only 40 miles from Damascus. The area is prominently mentioned throughout the Bible. There are thirty-three Israeli-Jewish communities on the Golan, comprising over 20,000 Jews, and an equal number of Druze inhabitants.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Except the expansions came from territory taken when they were attacked. That's fair. It's how we got California.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Except the expansions came from territory taken when they were attacked. That's fair. It's how we got California.

That's how we got just about the whole country. Ya'know...manifest destiny and all that.

Might makes right seems to be the creed of modern times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

While I believe in Israel's right to defend itself, I do not believe it had any rights to expand outside of the borders established by the UN upon its creation, and should not continue to make settlements outside of its current borders for further expansion.

I really don't see this much differently than Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

Except the expansions came from territory taken when they were attacked. That's fair. It's how we got California.

That's how we got just about the whole country. Ya'know...manifest destiny and all that.

Might makes right seems to be the creed of modern times.