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ORIGINAL: JVoV

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I design off grid systems and that's pure bullshit. The only reasons to be off the power grid are:

1. Being too remote to reasonably access the grid.

2. Insufficiently medicated paranoia.

I mostly agree with this.

In Florida, power companies must pay you for any surplus power you produce via solar panels each month. So staying on the grid makes financial sense, not to mention helps reduce the carbon footprint of the power company as a whole.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
off grid systems are far superior to on grid and most importantly removes private parties from the requirement to be regulated as a result of using a publicly regulated utility.

I design off grid systems and that's pure bullshit. The only reasons to be off the power grid are:

1. Being too remote to reasonably access the grid.

2. Insufficiently medicated paranoia.

Having lived completely off grid for a dozen years I will say that it is more expensive then being on grid when you can be. I chose to live where I do. My rifle range is on my front porch. I like being miles from anywhere and pay the cost. But, GotSteel, you are forgetting one other reason for being off grid. It may not happen much around your neck of the woods, but it happens often here. Totally dedicated environmentalists often choose to live off grid even in the middle of town. They are usually unpleasantly surprised that in town they still have to meet health and safety codes and drinking rain runoff doesn't meet the code. Nor does composting your excrement in your back yard.

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I design off grid systems and that's pure bullshit. The only reasons to be off the power grid are:

1. Being too remote to reasonably access the grid.

2. Insufficiently medicated paranoia.

I mostly agree with this.

In Florida, power companies must pay you for any surplus power you produce via solar panels each month. So staying on the grid makes financial sense, not to mention helps reduce the carbon footprint of the power company as a whole.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I would like to point out that a lot of the codes are burdensome. In the last couple of years California made it code that all new houses had to have sprinklers in the house. I consider that ridicules and a gift to the fire sprinkler industry. When I installed my solar panels for my home I mounted them on a track rack, which passively tracks the sun, on top a six inch steel pipe embedded seven feet into the ground and held in place by concrete. The county building inspector said I had to pull a building permit for the rack and panels. I asked why, he said because it has to be lightening arrested. I pointed out it was a metal rack on top a metal pipe dug deeply into the ground. He shrugged and said it was code and besides it also needed structural calcs stamped by an engineer. Fortunately I have an engineer stamp. So I called a couple of friends to ask them how to do the calcs. I did them and stamped them. The permit application cost $600 and if I'd not been an engineer the calcs would have cost me something like $1,500. All for nonsense. But it was code.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
off grid systems are far superior to on grid and most importantly removes private parties from the requirement to be regulated as a result of using a publicly regulated utility.

I design off grid systems and that's pure bullshit. The only reasons to be off the power grid are:

1. Being too remote to reasonably access the grid.

2. Insufficiently medicated paranoia.

Having lived completely off grid for a dozen years I will say that it is more expensive then being on grid when you can be. I chose to live where I do. My rifle range is on my front porch. I like being miles from anywhere and pay the cost. But, GotSteel, you are forgetting one other reason for being off grid. It may not happen much around your neck of the woods, but it happens often here. Totally dedicated environmentalists often choose to live off grid even in the middle of town. They are usually unpleasantly surprised that in town they still have to meet health and safety codes and drinking rain runoff doesn't meet the code. Nor does composting your excrement in your back yard.

I have no objection to meeting health codes such that your personal actions or setup would endanger another. However taking that the step further and telling someone they cant drink piss if they want is now going to far and infringing on the rights of the person.

Do you feel the government should make you pay for and ride a horse if you have a car.....for your protection, or any other imagined fantasy?

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I would like to point out that a lot of the codes are burdensome. In the last couple of years California made it code that all new houses had to have sprinklers in the house. I consider that ridicules and a gift to the fire sprinkler industry. When I installed my solar panels for my home I mounted them on a track rack, which passively tracks the sun, on top a six inch steel pipe embedded seven feet into the ground and held in place by concrete. The county building inspector said I had to pull a building permit for the rack and panels. I asked why, he said because it has to be lightening arrested. I pointed out it was a metal rack on top a metal pipe dug deeply into the ground. He shrugged and said it was code and besides it also needed structural calcs stamped by an engineer. Fortunately I have an engineer stamp. So I called a couple of friends to ask them how to do the calcs. I did them and stamped them. The permit application cost $600 and if I'd not been an engineer the calcs would have cost me something like $1,500. All for nonsense. But it was code.

not nonsense what so ever.

racketeering at its finest.

People who are not engineering grade are forced to accept it because of their lack of knowledge, however people who have knowledge as you said, quickly conclude: All for nonsense. But it was code.

Then its a matter of what is cheaper, sue or simply pay the extortionists to go away?

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Well real one, what you describe is called "Smart Planning" and is alive and well in California. Except they frown on horses because, after all, horse are people too and emit burps and farts. So it's bicycles. Oh, and, things like for instance, requiring new housing to be wired to have a charging station for electrical cars in the garage. If it's not in your area now...just wait, it's coming.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I would like to point out that a lot of the codes are burdensome. In the last couple of years California made it code that all new houses had to have sprinklers in the house. I consider that ridicules and a gift to the fire sprinkler industry. When I installed my solar panels for my home I mounted them on a track rack, which passively tracks the sun, on top a six inch steel pipe embedded seven feet into the ground and held in place by concrete. The county building inspector said I had to pull a building permit for the rack and panels. I asked why, he said because it has to be lightening arrested. I pointed out it was a metal rack on top a metal pipe dug deeply into the ground. He shrugged and said it was code and besides it also needed structural calcs stamped by an engineer. Fortunately I have an engineer stamp. So I called a couple of friends to ask them how to do the calcs. I did them and stamped them. The permit application cost $600 and if I'd not been an engineer the calcs would have cost me something like $1,500. All for nonsense. But it was code.

not nonsense what so ever.

racketeering at its finest.

People who are not engineering grade are forced to accept it because of their lack of knowledge, however people who have knowledge as you said, quickly conclude: All for nonsense. But it was code.

Then its a matter of what is cheaper, sue or simply pay the extortionists to go away?

Oh, and realone, as far as I know there is no code against you drinking piss, have at it. But, there are codes against you watering your lawn and plants with it. Although, since I live like two miles from anyone I do it all the time...water the plants that is.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I would like to point out that a lot of the codes are burdensome. In the last couple of years California made it code that all new houses had to have sprinklers in the house. I consider that ridicules and a gift to the fire sprinkler industry. When I installed my solar panels for my home I mounted them on a track rack, which passively tracks the sun, on top a six inch steel pipe embedded seven feet into the ground and held in place by concrete. The county building inspector said I had to pull a building permit for the rack and panels. I asked why, he said because it has to be lightening arrested. I pointed out it was a metal rack on top a metal pipe dug deeply into the ground. He shrugged and said it was code and besides it also needed structural calcs stamped by an engineer. Fortunately I have an engineer stamp. So I called a couple of friends to ask them how to do the calcs. I did them and stamped them. The permit application cost $600 and if I'd not been an engineer the calcs would have cost me something like $1,500. All for nonsense. But it was code.

not nonsense what so ever.

racketeering at its finest.

People who are not engineering grade are forced to accept it because of their lack of knowledge, however people who have knowledge as you said, quickly conclude: All for nonsense. But it was code.

Then its a matter of what is cheaper, sue or simply pay the extortionists to go away?

Oh, and realone, as far as I know there is no code against you drinking piss, have at it. But, there are codes against you watering your lawn and plants with it. Although, since I live like two miles from anyone I do it all the time...water the plants that is.

just toxic rainwater. [8D]

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

The rainwater has to be let go so it will get to the fish. It's an EPA thing. If a homeowner is collecting it in California it's against NPDES permits issued by the State. Oh and realone, when it rains at my house I often go out and shower under roof runoff. Well, maybe not for the first rain or two until the birdshit is washed away. But, it's not toxic after the birdshit is gone, it's for the fishiies.

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You are here: WaterPollution Prevention & Control NPDES Home
NPDES Home

OVERVIEW

Water pollution degrades surface waters making them unsafe for drinking, fishing, swimming, and other activities. As authorized by the Clean Water Act, the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit program controls water pollution by regulating point sources that discharge pollutants into waters of the United States. Point sources are discrete conveyances such as pipes or man-made ditches. Individual homes that are connected to a municipal system, use a septic system, or do not have a surface discharge do not need an NPDES permit; however, industrial, municipal, and other facilities must obtain permits if their discharges go directly to surface waters. In most cases, the NPDES permit program is administered by authorized states. Since its introduction in 1972, the NPDES permit program is responsible for significant improvements to our Nation's water quality.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Well real one, what you describe is called "Smart Planning" and is alive and well in California. Except they frown on horses because, after all, horse are people too and emit burps and farts. So it's bicycles. Oh, and, things like for instance, requiring new housing to be wired to have a charging station for electrical cars in the garage. If it's not in your area now...just wait, it's coming.

Of course this all proves my point, despite coming through the back door. [8D]

Someones pals got sweetheart deals on that one despite this is racketeering.

The sad part is people accept it and the crooks get 'crookeder' and the victims poorer.

Death by a thousand tiny paper cuts.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Well real one, what you describe is called "Smart Planning" and is alive and well in California. Except they frown on horses because, after all, horse are people too and emit burps and farts. So it's bicycles. Oh, and, things like for instance, requiring new housing to be wired to have a charging station for electrical cars in the garage. If it's not in your area now...just wait, it's coming.

Of course this all proves my point, despite coming through the back door. [8D]

Someones pals got sweetheart deals on that one despite this is racketeering.

The sad part is people accept it and the crooks get 'crookeder' and the victims poorer.

Death by a thousand tiny paper cuts.

Well, actually that's funny. They were installed by code because the rabid environmentalists wanted them. I'm sure some of those environmentalists are, just like Al Gore, in the business of making money of that sort of thing. But here's the funny part. All those people who plug in their cars being so green don't realize in california excess electricity for things like charging cars comes mainly from a coal fired power plant in Montana. So theyre being all clean and green and just pushing their pollution elsewhere. For some reason green people don't seem to realize electricity comes from someplace.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Well I get the impression his systems are inferior. Solar, assuming you mean panels is the worst way to produce power, and you need to have utility company certified equipment (setup) [of which I agree] with special safeties in place if you want to go into the business of selling power back to the grid. Everyone seems to enjoy sliding off point just a bit.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Well I get the impression his systems are inferior. Solar, assuming you mean panels is the worst way to produce power, and you need to have utility company certified equipment (setup) [of which I agree] with special safeties in place if you want to go into the business of selling power back to the grid. Everyone seems to enjoy sliding off point just a bit.

Yes you are required to use equipment that won't kill the linemen. Yes it is significantly more expensive than the cheapest Chinese junk you can find on ebay. However, using your POCO as an imaginary battery, one that's perfectly efficient and doesn't need to be replaced....well real batteries just aren't ever going to be able to compete with that.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: joether

Sounds like solid and good government at work. Making sure an one individual household is hooked up the city water system. Even if not a drop is used, its there in the case of an emergency. Fires do start in people's homes all the time. Its sometimes a good idea to have....something...to help keep a fire back until the professionals show up.

There is no realistic constitutional question here. The town can create laws with regards to a water system and how it is used. The State can create laws with regards to a water system and how it is used. The federal government can create laws with regards to a water system and how it is used. All three of these entities are created 'Of the People, By the People, For the People". RealOne forgets very often that we do not live in a dictatorship, in which Realone, is the dictator. We live in a democratic republic. An that if people feel a law should be changed, can do so by informing the public and running a campaign in the political environment.

Well, I've never actually seen a fire truck hook up to the kitchen faucet in a house. They usually use a fire hydrant outside which already is hooked up and belongs to the city. So even though you're trying to sound reasonable, as usual, your analogy just doesn't understand the topic.

An where are those fire hydrants located? Outside the house of the person bitching about not wanting to have 'on grid' water system. In the unlikely event that the fire fighters are not able to get the fire hydrant operational, they do get creative on dealing with the problem until a better option presents itself.

That things do not go perfectly on every fire fighting event should not be considered 'unheard of'. Usually things go wrong here and there. For one reason or another. Yes, even professionals can fuck up from time to time. Equipment could have break downs. That I can recognize this without having to be a fire fighting professional, and you cant, serves as one more reminder of whom are the educated on this forum.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Oh and Joe, the vast majority of house fires start as grease fires in the kitchen. You don't use the kitchen sink water on them either. You should have a rated fire extinguisher in the kitchen and by the front door. The front door one is because as you are rushing out of the home in panick and realize it's just a little grease fire, the extinguisher is right there beside you.

The name is 'joether', not 'joe'. Just like your not Mr. H, your HunterCA. I give you respect towards your name, I expect the same in return!

Actually the top ten 'Causes of Fires at Home' are:

1. Cooking Equipment
2. Heating Equipment
3. Smoking
4. Electrical Equipment
5. Candles
6. Children Playing with Fire
7. Inadequate Wiring
8. Flammable Liquids
9. Christmas Trees/Decorations
10. Barbecues

SOURCE

Most homes fail a safety inspection. The fire extinguisher is not in a handy place, or the operator is not proficient in its operation. That some forget that the little tank does not have much 'stuff' in it, and should evacuate quickly.

It has been observed in many situations (not just with home fires) that when panic grips a person's mindset, all ability to think rationally, logically, and wisely, go right out the door. Which is why most people panic around large fires. The professionals rarely due, because they have specific training in handling a crisis situation. I've been in my situations in which 'shit is hitting the fan' and calmly barked out orders because people around me, were either 'stuck like stone' or 'running around mindlessly'. But once they are given an order, they simply follow it without question. I should have been a military officer.....

Joe, nonsense. You don't know how the water system works so you think others don't. It's all nonsense. For instance around here, fire hydrants can be no more than 300 feet apart in spacing. No home is ever more than 75 feet from a fire hydrant...in a city. Fire departments have enough hose on the truck to reach a couple of hydrants, believe me. Fire trucks provide a minimum of 1500 gpm of water. Your kitchen faucet is lucky to get 6 gpm.

Just admit, that as usual you were talking out of your ass.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity
Damn, joe

Hunter said most fires start in the kitchen, your source states that the number one cause of house fires is... ?

(You think youre proving him wrong, while youre only providing him with backup)

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Anyone see a little glitch in the american 'freedom' system?

there are many HUGE glitches in the american freedom system..

why is it illegal for her when there are many others living outside of cities that live off the grid? imo, its about money and control.. the city wants all homes connected so they have to pay "their yearly share" of the maintenance and expansion costs.. and my gawd.. if one person can get away with this "illegal" behaviour, then how many others will follow? that would be the start of anarchy! govt wants its citizens to be obedient lobotomized drones.. [8|]

I am still gobsmacked that there are areas in the US where collecting rainwater is illegal..

There are other components to the issue. Landlords who refuse to pay the bills or perform proper maintenance to keep the water and sewer systems in proper order, home owners whose septic tanks back up and cause raw sewage to run overland. Families building on the cheap who would otherwise choose to do without running water...

We have codes for a reason

Like many issues there are two sides, and the knee jerk reaction to hearing one side of the story isnt always the correct reaction

whoa.. i thought you were against govt regulations and control! what hipocracy!.. [&:]

I think, and I believe most conservative would agree, that there is a difference between central control in the federal government and local control for health and safety reasons. It's not apples and apples. Let the Feds stick to the Constitution. My chance of seeing my Senator or Congressman is nil. My chance of sitting down with an elected local official is a matter of a phone call and making an appointment. Different things entirely.

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If there is a question about water contamination, do you consult with a local politician or with a scientist?

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA
So tell me what battery can.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA
I Presently use lead acid deep cell batteries.