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RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 11:50:02 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry my friend sounds like gobbledygook to me that has no basis in reality when it comes to an ascribed liberal or conservative way of thinking.

Butch

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RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 1:19:55 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thanks Hunter... I have overlooked your point... Hmmmmm... I must admit this is shoots my theory down a bit. But I still see no excuse for murder insane or not.

Butch

I dont think there is any excuse for murder either, just you asked about sane vs insane... but speaking about murder, what about those that execute death row inmates? that is murder also..

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RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 1:23:18 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Not murder in my view... Justice... but I can see where this thread will just be rehashed opinions... mine included.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 1:34:08 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 1:45:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thanks Hunter... I have overlooked your point... Hmmmmm... I must admit this is shoots my theory down a bit. But I still see no excuse for murder insane or not.

Butch

I dont think there is any excuse for murder either, just you asked about sane vs insane... but speaking about murder, what about those that execute death row inmates? that is murder also..

Does this mean you also think that self defense is murder? Is every soldier who killed an enemy soldier a murderer? This argument is simply out of contact with reality.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 1:47:26 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


In most of the US an inability to participate in their defense or an inability to tell right from wrong is the standard.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 2:20:46 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


In most of the US an inability to participate in their defense or an inability to tell right from wrong is the standard.


I think in this instance I'd be willing to bet that the average American is more willing to accept someone is insane than your average Englishman.

As an example, psychoanalysis took off in the United States but gained very little ground in England, here you share common ground with the Germans and other Central European countries. Generally we think mind reading is a load of bollocks - but you seem to go in for psychiatrists and the like.

This idea that the mind can be investigated, understood and managed lends weight to the idea that someone is 'insane'.

I'm fairly standard in terms of English thought, that being that these people aren't insane at all. It's comforting to some people to think that another person who takes pleasure in killing people, must be 'mad'. I think we all have the full range of emotions in us.

And, it suits the people of the psychiatry industry for obvious reasons. What a scam.

As it's a common English trait to be sceptical of anyone who lays claim to be able to read minds it applies to judges too, and very, very few murderers are deemed unfit to plead here.


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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 2:26:00 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Not murder in my view... Justice... but I can see where this thread will just be rehashed opinions... mine included.

Butch

its premeditated so fits the definition of murder.. I cant say I am for executions under any circumstances but then we dont have the death penalty in Canada so that is the societal standard i am used to.. to want someones execution is too blood thirsty for me, its not the kind of civilized society that I want to live in.. especially that so many executed in the US were later found to be innocent.. thats jmo of course..

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 2:51:05 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thanks Hunter... I have overlooked your point... Hmmmmm... I must admit this is shoots my theory down a bit. But I still see no excuse for murder insane or not.

Butch

I dont think there is any excuse for murder either, just you asked about sane vs insane... but speaking about murder, what about those that execute death row inmates? that is murder also..

Murder is the unlawful taking of lives. Please don't be silly.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 2:54:28 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


Probably better drugs in Broadmore and less chance of becoming someone's bitch. We do the same here, demonstrating mental incompetence gets you into the metal institution instead of jail. But, only until a shrink certifies you are no longer a potential harm to society.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 2:59:37 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


In most of the US an inability to participate in their defense or an inability to tell right from wrong is the standard.


I think in this instance I'd be willing to bet that the average American is more willing to accept someone is insane than your average Englishman.

As an example, psychoanalysis took off in the United States but gained very little ground in England, here you share common ground with the Germans and other Central European countries. Generally we think mind reading is a load of bollocks - but you seem to go in for psychiatrists and the like.

This idea that the mind can be investigated, understood and managed lends weight to the idea that someone is 'insane'.

I'm fairly standard in terms of English thought, that being that these people aren't insane at all. It's comforting to some people to think that another person who takes pleasure in killing people, must be 'mad'. I think we all have the full range of emotions in us.

And, it suits the people of the psychiatry industry for obvious reasons. What a scam.

As it's a common English trait to be sceptical of anyone who lays claim to be able to read minds it applies to judges too, and very, very few murderers are deemed unfit to plead here.


You may well be right, people here would rather see insane than evil.
They feel more secure if people that do these things are an insane aberration than if they are evil.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/25/2015 3:00:30 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:05:50 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.



The BBC article didnt say that

It said "He will be detained indefinitely in a psychiatric hospital."

Unless "indefinitely" means "for the rest of his days" over there?

Here, what that would mean, is he could be out walking among us at any given point in time, as soon as he convinces his doctors (and therefor a judge) that he is no longer a threat


< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/25/2015 3:06:32 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:08:21 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


In most of the US an inability to participate in their defense or an inability to tell right from wrong is the standard.


I think in this instance I'd be willing to bet that the average American is more willing to accept someone is insane than your average Englishman.

As an example, psychoanalysis took off in the United States but gained very little ground in England, here you share common ground with the Germans and other Central European countries. Generally we think mind reading is a load of bollocks - but you seem to go in for psychiatrists and the like.

This idea that the mind can be investigated, understood and managed lends weight to the idea that someone is 'insane'.

I'm fairly standard in terms of English thought, that being that these people aren't insane at all. It's comforting to some people to think that another person who takes pleasure in killing people, must be 'mad'. I think we all have the full range of emotions in us.

And, it suits the people of the psychiatry industry for obvious reasons. What a scam.

As it's a common English trait to be sceptical of anyone who lays claim to be able to read minds it applies to judges too, and very, very few murderers are deemed unfit to plead here.


You may well be right, people here would rather see insane than evil.
They feel more secure if people that do these things are an insane aberration than if they are evil.


On the plus side, you do better at sentencing these people than we do.

I watch the odd US crime show, and some of these people get 99 years.

Christ, you'd have to blow up the world to get 99 years here!

I think I prefer your form of justice.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:11:00 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


In most of the US an inability to participate in their defense or an inability to tell right from wrong is the standard.


I think in this instance I'd be willing to bet that the average American is more willing to accept someone is insane than your average Englishman.

As an example, psychoanalysis took off in the United States but gained very little ground in England, here you share common ground with the Germans and other Central European countries. Generally we think mind reading is a load of bollocks - but you seem to go in for psychiatrists and the like.

This idea that the mind can be investigated, understood and managed lends weight to the idea that someone is 'insane'.

I'm fairly standard in terms of English thought, that being that these people aren't insane at all. It's comforting to some people to think that another person who takes pleasure in killing people, must be 'mad'. I think we all have the full range of emotions in us.

And, it suits the people of the psychiatry industry for obvious reasons. What a scam.

As it's a common English trait to be sceptical of anyone who lays claim to be able to read minds it applies to judges too, and very, very few murderers are deemed unfit to plead here.


You may well be right, people here would rather see insane than evil.
They feel more secure if people that do these things are an insane aberration than if they are evil.


On the plus side, you do better at sentencing these people than we do.

I watch the odd US crime show, and some of these people get 99 years.

Christ, you'd have to blow up the world to get 99 years here!

I think I prefer your form of justice.


For the most part so do I.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:12:37 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

On the plus side, you do better at sentencing these people than we do.

I watch the odd US crime show, and some of these people get 99 years.

Christ, you'd have to blow up the world to get 99 years here!

I think I prefer your form of justice.



Except 99 years doesnt mean 99 years here, more like 15 or 25 or something

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:22:08 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.



The BBC article didnt say that

It said "He will be detained indefinitely in a psychiatric hospital."

Unless "indefinitely" means "for the rest of his days" over there?

Here, what that would mean, is he could be out walking among us at any given point in time, as soon as he convinces his doctors (and therefor a judge) that he is no longer a threat



I think it depends. The likes of Peter Sutcliffe who murdered 13 women, and Ian Brady who murdered children, have been detained for decades and will never be set free.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:26:54 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe there a study... don't ask for a link just using memory here... that people without a conscience have a part of the brain that is abnormal. This would make them by the very definition of sanity...insane. In order to be, and the reason for, a psychopath is a lack of conscience.

Butch


Why all the fuss

Blame the knife and let the poor man go

(Make sure he doesnt have any flags in his possession first)


May I take this opportunity to observe that you are a cretin, Sanity?


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:29:52 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:


The BBC article didnt say that

It said "He will be detained indefinitely in a psychiatric hospital."

Unless "indefinitely" means "for the rest of his days" over there?

Here, what that would mean, is he could be out walking among us at any given point in time, as soon as he convinces his doctors (and therefor a judge) that he is no longer a threat


The general thing here is that if you get sent down for criminal insanity you're looking at an endless sentence. It's not generally considered a good plea to make. The shrinks might consider you eventually to be sane enough to leave - or, at least, harmless enough ... but nobody, least of all interested politicians, will be willing to take the chance. This is why some of our most notorious murdering fruitcakes end up dying in gaol.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/25/2015 3:32:43 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 3:40:59 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

As an example, psychoanalysis took off in the United States but gained very little ground in England, here you share common ground with the Germans and other Central European countries. Generally we think mind reading is a load of bollocks - but you seem to go in for psychiatrists and the like.


My rough sense of it is that while that is the case, it's also the case that in the USA people tend to be much more morally-condemning. You'll get that psychological view but - and much depends on the state in question - you'll also get the view that 'this is Satan's work' and 'man is evil incarnate', etc, etc - in generally larger numbers. Here in the UK it seems to be more of a woolly mishmash of the two.

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(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Man not guilty of London beheading. - 6/25/2015 4:00:21 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Fuckin stupid arsed Brits.



It could be different in the United States, dunno, but in England being deemed unfit to plead has been going on for centuries - the fact the man is black, or mixed race, not sure which; or adheres to whatever religion, is irrelevant.

He won't see the light of day again. He'll be locked up in Broadmoor, Britain's premier institution for homicidal lunatics, for the rest of his days.

No real difference in terms of sentence.


In most of the US an inability to participate in their defense or an inability to tell right from wrong is the standard.


I think in this instance I'd be willing to bet that the average American is more willing to accept someone is insane than your average Englishman.

As an example, psychoanalysis took off in the United States but gained very little ground in England, here you share common ground with the Germans and other Central European countries. Generally we think mind reading is a load of bollocks - but you seem to go in for psychiatrists and the like.

This idea that the mind can be investigated, understood and managed lends weight to the idea that someone is 'insane'.

I'm fairly standard in terms of English thought, that being that these people aren't insane at all. It's comforting to some people to think that another person who takes pleasure in killing people, must be 'mad'. I think we all have the full range of emotions in us.

And, it suits the people of the psychiatry industry for obvious reasons. What a scam.

As it's a common English trait to be sceptical of anyone who lays claim to be able to read minds it applies to judges too, and very, very few murderers are deemed unfit to plead here.


You may well be right, people here would rather see insane than evil.
They feel more secure if people that do these things are an insane aberration than if they are evil.


On the plus side, you do better at sentencing these people than we do.

I watch the odd US crime show, and some of these people get 99 years.

Christ, you'd have to blow up the world to get 99 years here!

I think I prefer your form of justice.


But here, 99 years means 33 years with good behavior. Usually an insanely long sentence like that really means the judge doesn't want you out until you're carried out. Generally, you serve a third to a half of your sentence.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 40
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