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MasterJaguar01 -> RE: SCOTUS rules gay marriage legal in all states! (6/28/2015 6:33:46 PM)
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: Marc2b
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You didn't answer the question, Marc. If a bakery doesn't make wedding cakes celebrating gay weddings for anyone, they shouldn't be forced to sell one to anyone. It's not just about some cake, but about a wedding cake. If a bakery refuses to sell chocolate cake as a wedding cake, but will sell chocolate cakes otherwise, should they be forced to sell chocolate cakes as wedding cakes?
Yes I did answer your question. Now you are asking a completely different question.
No, you didn't. You changed the question, and then answered it.
I asked a different question (the point is exactly the same) only so you just might actually answer the question.
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The first time you asked about not offering cakes for gay weddings leaving, presumably, the proprietors to still sell cakes for straight weddings. An obvious case of unwarranted discrimination.
Now you are asking if a bakery can sell cakes but explicitly refuse to sell cakes for any weddings, gay or straight.
No, you missed the point both times. Two categories of wedding cakes: 1) Homosexual Marriages & 2) Heterosexual Marriages. Both cakes celebrate the wedding, the marriage, etc. But, a Christian baker just might not want to celebrate a wedding between two same-sex people. Thus, the bakery could offer Heterosexual Wedding cakes, and not Homosexual Wedding cakes. If a homosexual couple is barred from buying a heterosexual wedding cake (and hetero- couples are not barred), then there is your discrimination. If the bakery doesn't make homosexual wedding cakes for anyone, there is no discrimination against any person. The discrimination is against homosexual marriage.
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Well, once I buy the cake I don't see how the bakery would have any say over what I do with it. What you are really asking is if they can refuse to decorate any cakes for weddings. If they refuse to decorate cakes for any weddings, that wouldn't be a problem. It is when they refuse it for one group or another that they are - or should be - breaking the law.
But, not just anyone can decorate a cake to the level desired in a wedding cake. It is akin to an art. Every time a bakery decorates a wedding cake, the decorator is making a work of art. If any schmuck could do it well (and I can attest that is not the case, as I can not decorate most cakes, let alone a wedding cake, well), then they would not cost as much as they do, and the top decorators wouldn't be in such demand (not to mention the number of cake decorating competitions/shows on the Food Network).
Does an artist have the right to refuse a commission to create his/her art?
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Not that I understand why this bakery would deliberately lock themselves out of a significant portion of the market. That is something that gets lost in this argument. As businessman in retail I am flabbergasted and uncomprehending as to why anyone would want to turn away paying customers. People giving you their money is the whole point of being in business!
That wouldn't make a whole lot of business sense. We agree on that. But, there is a difference between government forcing a business to provide a service and the business owners choosing to provide that same service without government coercion.
I don't oppose homosexual marriage, but I do oppose forcing a business to provide a service that they oppose on religious grounds.
This is the issue on the other thread. Both threads have merged into this same CAKE issue!!!!
Aylee brought this up. Is controlling the ART discrimination? I would say "no"
I think, a wedding cake decorator, could refuse (even under Public Accomodation non-disc law) to decorate a cake in a homosexual style (e.g. Depictions of homosexual acts, homosexual figurines, etc.) I would support his/her right to do so.
That is DIFFERENT from refusing to back/decorate a cake in the first place.
My .02
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