quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Thomas Jefferson (of course was famous for coining the phrase "Separation of Church and State") spoke (or wrote) about religious freedom often.

I think Thomas Jefferson foresaw "Religious Liberties" laws for businesses when he said this:

[b]“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

I definitely think he would consider granting businesses "religious freedom" a law establishing a religion.
Note he says "freedom of religion affects every INDIVIDUAL" (not business)

And then there is this:
State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights.

How prophetic.
My own opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Thomas Jefferson (of course was famous for coining the phrase "Separation of Church and State") spoke (or wrote) about religious freedom often.

I think Thomas Jefferson foresaw "Religious Liberties" laws for businesses when he said this:

[b]“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

I definitely think he would consider granting businesses "religious freedom" a law establishing a religion.
Note he says "freedom of religion affects every INDIVIDUAL" (not business)

And then there is this:
State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights.

How prophetic.
My own opinion.

I think he would say that telling a store owner that his religious beliefs were illegal would cross that bridge much faster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Thomas Jefferson (of course was famous for coining the phrase "Separation of Church and State") spoke (or wrote) about religious freedom often.

I think Thomas Jefferson foresaw "Religious Liberties" laws for businesses when he said this:

[b]“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

I definitely think he would consider granting businesses "religious freedom" a law establishing a religion.
Note he says "freedom of religion affects every INDIVIDUAL" (not business)

And then there is this:
State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights.

How prophetic.
My own opinion.

I think he would say that telling a store owner that his religious beliefs were illegal would cross that bridge much faster.

The law you object to says persons regardless of their religious views could act in accordance with them No establishment there. The one I object to tells them which beliefs are acceptable to the government, that is precisely establishing a religion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Thomas Jefferson (of course was famous for coining the phrase "Separation of Church and State") spoke (or wrote) about religious freedom often.

I think Thomas Jefferson foresaw "Religious Liberties" laws for businesses when he said this:

[b]“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

I definitely think he would consider granting businesses "religious freedom" a law establishing a religion.
Note he says "freedom of religion affects every INDIVIDUAL" (not business)

And then there is this:
State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights.

How prophetic.
My own opinion.

I think he would say that telling a store owner that his religious beliefs were illegal would cross that bridge much faster.

The law you object to says persons regardless of their religious views could act in accordance with them No establishment there. The one I object to tells them which beliefs are acceptable to the government, that is precisely establishing a religion.

Acting in accordance with (including denying equal treatment to citizens who do not share their religious beliefs). It is the government sanctioned denying of dignity and equality to others (in the name of religious liberty) to which I object. An establishment there, I would argue. (And I imagine Jefferson would as well)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Thomas Jefferson (of course was famous for coining the phrase "Separation of Church and State") spoke (or wrote) about religious freedom often.

I think Thomas Jefferson foresaw "Religious Liberties" laws for businesses when he said this:

[b]“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

I definitely think he would consider granting businesses "religious freedom" a law establishing a religion.
Note he says "freedom of religion affects every INDIVIDUAL" (not business)

And then there is this:
State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights.

How prophetic.
My own opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Thomas Jefferson (of course was famous for coining the phrase "Separation of Church and State") spoke (or wrote) about religious freedom often.

I think Thomas Jefferson foresaw "Religious Liberties" laws for businesses when he said this:

[b]“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

I definitely think he would consider granting businesses "religious freedom" a law establishing a religion.
Note he says "freedom of religion affects every INDIVIDUAL" (not business)

And then there is this:
State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights.

How prophetic.
My own opinion.

I think he would say that telling a store owner that his religious beliefs were illegal would cross that bridge much faster.

The law you object to says persons regardless of their religious views could act in accordance with them No establishment there. The one I object to tells them which beliefs are acceptable to the government, that is precisely establishing a religion.

Acting in accordance with (including denying equal treatment to citizens who do not share their religious beliefs). It is the government sanctioned denying of dignity and equality to others (in the name of religious liberty) to which I object. An establishment there, I would argue. (And I imagine Jefferson would as well)

No requiring everyone to adhere to the same moral standards is establishing religion. How could allowing each individual to follow the tenants of their religion be establishing a religion, it is the exact opposite.

You would be dead wrong about Jefferson's stand on this. Creating a mandatory set of moral standards that everyone must follow is, by definition establishment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Thomas Jefferson (of course was famous for coining the phrase "Separation of Church and State") spoke (or wrote) about religious freedom often.

I think Thomas Jefferson foresaw "Religious Liberties" laws for businesses when he said this:

[b]“Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

I definitely think he would consider granting businesses "religious freedom" a law establishing a religion.
Note he says "freedom of religion affects every INDIVIDUAL" (not business)

And then there is this:
State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights.

How prophetic.
My own opinion.

I think he would say that telling a store owner that his religious beliefs were illegal would cross that bridge much faster.

The law you object to says persons regardless of their religious views could act in accordance with them No establishment there. The one I object to tells them which beliefs are acceptable to the government, that is precisely establishing a religion.

Acting in accordance with (including denying equal treatment to citizens who do not share their religious beliefs). It is the government sanctioned denying of dignity and equality to others (in the name of religious liberty) to which I object. An establishment there, I would argue. (And I imagine Jefferson would as well)

No requiring everyone to adhere to the same moral standards is establishing religion. How could allowing each individual to follow the tenants of their religion be establishing a religion, it is the exact opposite.

You would be dead wrong about Jefferson's stand on this. Creating a mandatory set of moral standards that everyone must follow is, by definition establishment.

Bravo!

I asked MJ in the gay marriage thread what is unconstitutional about the governments application of title 2 of the civil rights act here: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4820616

You nailed it, religion. The case talk we were discussing in the marriage thread, the state ruled in favor of the gays religion over the kliens religion based on the state religion.

So we have a situation where the federal gubmint created an unconstitutional law that the courts are upholding to promote their political agenda.

quote:

The bill (HB 707) was designed to block the government from pulling licenses, tax benefits, and the like from a company because of the owner's view of same-sex marriage...

State Rep. Mike...said the executive order reflects parts of an amended version of his bill.

Johnson has said the Supreme Court of the United States' ruling on a landmark same-sex marriage case, which is expected June 18, presents an imminent need for the bill. There will be an increasing number of conflicts "between the old idea of religious freedom and these new and changing ideas about marriage," he said...

In addition to codifying the intent of Johnson's bill, the order also incorporates the state's 2010-passed Religious Freedom Restoration Act and last year's Hobby Lobby ruling from the Supreme Court of the United States. The latter ruling found corporations can be treated by the law as a person, and that companies with religious owners cannot be forced to pay for insurance coverage for contraception...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Why is that hard to understand

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
If religious freedom is what everyone wants, I am all in!!!! Remember, Odins followers loved to slaughter christians. I expect all of the apologists for this other asswipe will support this freedom?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
If religious freedom is what everyone wants, I am all in!!!! Remember, Odins followers loved to slaughter christians. I expect all of the apologists for this other asswipe will support this freedom?

Plundering is a tenant of my religion. Religious freedom now!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This hate filled "Christian" has every right to her views.....

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/watch_indiana_woman_s_facebook_video_meltdown_rant_over_marriage_goes_viral

Just not the right to impose them on me.


If there was a god.....She would put me in the same room with this entertaining freak.