RE: first contact advice (Full Version)

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daniel1973 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 6:47:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973

Submit to someone who is kind of a good person but does not know how to lead you.



Why on Earth would I want to do something like that?


To learn the ropes, dearie!



UllrsIshtar -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 6:48:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973

Submit to someone who is kind of a good person but does not know how to lead you.



Why on Earth would I want to do something like that?


To learn the ropes, dearie!


No thanks... I'd rather stay ignorant on this one.



daniel1973 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 6:58:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

No thanks... I'd rather stay ignorant on this one.


Your choice ... as a submissive I want to be able to do as best I can though, that includes dominants who aren't that capable :-)



UllrsIshtar -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:02:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

No thanks... I'd rather stay ignorant on this one.


Your choice ... as a submissive I want to be able to do as best I can though, that includes dominants who aren't that capable :-)


I'm not 'a submissive'.



Wayward5oul -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:07:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973
Your choice ... as a submissive I want to be able to do as best I can though, that includes dominants who aren't that capable :-)


What could I possibly learn from someone who didn't know what they were doing?



daniel1973 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:10:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

I'm not 'a submissive'.


And I'm not a Nobel prize winner, strange but true.



daniel1973 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:16:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

What could I possibly learn from someone who didn't know what they were doing?


How to deal with that. How to be smarter than your dom(me). How not to grandstand. Not exactly your thing, eh.



wittynamehere -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:25:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
What could I possibly learn from someone who didn't know what they were doing?

Some people find they learn from things that challenge them. For example, they learn from making a mistake. They learn what kinda works and what kinda doesn't. And they learn how the activity feels, they pick up skills, they develop shortcuts. And next time, they often do better. It's how some people learn - improvement over time.
Now, imagine being able to observe somebody else tackling their challenges and making their mistakes. Maybe you could learn from that?
And maybe, learning is really REALLY important, for all of us?

But yeah, what could you POSSIBLY learn?!? Nothing, clearly.



Wayward5oul -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:29:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

What could I possibly learn from someone who didn't know what they were doing?


How to deal with that. How to be smarter than your dom(me). How not to grandstand. Not exactly your thing, eh.

I already know how to deal with people who don't know what they are doing. Don't deal with them. I don't need to knowingly put myself in the hands of an incapable person to learn that.

Some things shouldn't have to be learned.



daniel1973 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:43:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

I already know how to deal with people who don't know what they are doing. Don't deal with them.


That's the easy way. I prefer the hard one.



Wayward5oul -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 7:47:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere
Some people find they learn from things that challenge them.

I absolutely agree. I do learn from being challenged. But someone who does not know what they are doing is not a challenge for me.
quote:

For example, they learn from making a mistake. They learn what kinda works and what kinda doesn't.

I absolutely agree. Its how we grow. But I am not going to intentionally put myself in a position to make mistakes. That's what wins Darwin awards. And that is one award that I would rather avoid.
quote:

And they learn how the activity feels, they pick up skills, they develop shortcuts.

If someone is doing it wrong, how are they going to show me what it is supposed to feel like? Been there, done that. I prefer to learn from people who know what they are doing, so I can know how something is supposed to feel, not how to screw it up.
quote:

And next time, they often do better. It's how some people learn - improvement over time.

Its how someone should learn-improve over time, because you see it being done right and you learn from that. I don't want to know how not to do something, I want to know how to do it.
quote:

Now, imagine being able to observe somebody else tackling their challenges and making their mistakes. Maybe you could learn from that?

I do all the time. Others' mistakes, and my own mistakes. I just don't go looking for it, intentionally putting myself in that position.

quote:

But yeah, what could you POSSIBLY learn?!? Nothing, clearly.

From someone who didn't know what they were doing? Nope. Nothing. And there is nothing that anyone can say that will make me believe otherwise.

People make enough mistakes on their own, just trying to figure out this thing we call life. I try to learn from my mistakes, of which I make plenty. I try to learn from observing others' mistakes. But when someone knowingly puts themselves on that road? No thanks. My time and efforts are more valuable than that. I'll look to those who have something that can teach me how to be, not how not to be.



daniel1973 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:00:32 PM)

Hypocrisy and delusions of grandeur, congratulations that's exactly what my master wants from me.
The original topic was "first contact advice" and I continue to say that the more you learn the more you can bring on.



Wayward5oul -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:09:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973
Hypocrisy and delusions of grandeur, congratulations that's exactly what my master wants from me.


Objective achieved.
quote:

The original topic was "first contact advice"

Which neither of our last few posts addresses. Apologies to the OP.

quote:

and I continue to say that the more you learn the more you can bring on.

On that we agree.



sexyred1 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:16:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

I'm a little different than most chicks on this:

- Take charge from the first moment. This doesn't mean be rude and entitled, but take the lead nonetheless.

- Show me that you have a plan. In life, for yourself, for what you want a chick for, for what you want a relationship to be. It's nice that you want a gall at your beck and call to suck your dick whenever the mood strikes you, or that you want somebody to live your sadistic fantasies out on. But how are you planning on getting us there? What about the other 23 hours of the day?

- Show me that you have a clear drive to protect and provide. I don't date boys who don't take care of their toys.

- Show me that you understand why I need to be in a BDSM relationship. That you grok, fully, what I'm looking to get out of this. I will never need you if you don't understand why I need to need you.

- Talk about your past experiences, and mistakes and what you learned from them. If you're not man enough to admit that you've made mistake, or haven't learned anything from them, I'm not interested. I'm more than willing to be a labrat, but not if you don't advance and improve.

- Show me that your standards, goals, ambitions, willpower, self-discipline and patience are greater than mine. I still have not yet figured out how to submit to somebody who isn't actually my superior.

- Explain to me how my life would be better with you, than it would be if I where on my own. If you're not improving my life somehow, I'm not sure why it is that I'm supposed to give up my freedom to place it in your hands. It seems like a raw deal at that point.


All of that is great, but the question was what do upon first contact. My answer was for those initial emails. Everything you said would only ever be discerned if they make to the phone or meeting. I mean I wouldn't even care to know the answers to those questions if he such a dolt in his introduction or first few communications.

Your not that different in wanting to know these things, believe me.



daniel1973 -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:20:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973
quote:

and I continue to say that the more you learn the more you can bring on.

On that we agree.


But then, the hardest way to learn is from someone who can't teach.





JVoV -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:40:07 PM)

And again, subs are much different than slaves. subs require more wooing, and more vanilla, because it is a partnership. slaves wish and need to be property, and treated as such. The conversation dynamics should match that, though until properly collared, a slave still has free will.



UllrsIshtar -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:42:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

All of that is great, but the question was what do upon first contact. My answer was for those initial emails. Everything you said would only ever be discerned if they make to the phone or meeting. I mean I wouldn't even care to know the answers to those questions if he such a dolt in his introduction or first few communications.

Your not that different in wanting to know these things, believe me.



Those are first contact kinda things for me. Especially the first one.

I'm not saying that all of them have to happen in the first email, but picking any one of those points and expanding upon them (again especially the first one) is what it's going to take to pike my interest online.

Leading with vanilla conversation and saying stuff like: "hi, my name is ____. What is your name? My hobbies are _____ what do you like to do for fun aside from kink" or "I saw your picture in which you engage in ____ I also engage in _____" is going to get you ignored by me.

Unlike most chicks... leading with kink, assertive control, and laying out what he expects from women in his life period, or what he has to offer is what it's going to take to get me to write back. Asking for my fantasies quickly is fine, as long as he can then show he gets it. When I'm looking for an M/s dynamic, it's pretty likely that I'm not going to be interested in a man who doesn't expect me to address him with a honorific of some type within those first few emails AND who has the 'aura' to back up that expectation.

"On you knees bitch" works on me and has worked on me in the past if he's got the profile and the rest of the email to back it up.

When I'm on the market for an M/s dynamic, pretty much the worse thing a guy can do is approach me as an equal in the first email. Pretty much the best thing he can do is open with an email that shows that he understands why I need to need him.

Whether we're compatibly vanilla is something that comes later, because for me, the priority is whether we're compatible kink. With a great kink dynamic vanilla compatibility is not that important for me, while the best of vanilla dynamics will not make me overlook a lock of kink compatibility.







JVoV -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:46:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: daniel1973
Your choice ... as a submissive I want to be able to do as best I can though, that includes dominants who aren't that capable :-)


What could I possibly learn from someone who didn't know what they were doing?


There is a wealth of knowledge there, really. All terribly interesting, though overlooked and taken for granted.

You can learn about the response time of your local EMTs. The quality of care and food at the local hospital, as well as wait times. The joys of physical therapy & chiropractics.

Much to learn from those that know nothing. As long as you survive, of course.



DesFIP -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:48:55 PM)

Unless someone asks for a dick pic, don't show one. The prevailing attitude is that if that's what you think best represents you, then you really are a dick.

There is no difference between vanilla and kinky dating sites. You still need to show, not tell, that you have a sense of humor, that you have nonsexual interests you are passionate about, that you are interested in other people as people instead of as fetish delivery systems.

Your intro email shouldn't demand anything. You should explain why you wrote them, what about their profile or forum post sparked your interest. Don't ask questions that are answered in her profile. If you don't fit into her parameters, then respect that and don't write. You aren't that special that she's going to throw out everything she's learned about her own needs.

About the sub/slave stuff. I'm neither to you until I consent to be one. And this one didn't have any desire to be in a M/s or O/p relationship. It just turned out that way over time as he gradually took more and more control. And for me, to have agreed to this meant my needs had to be fulfilled which includes being loved and cherished. So that slaves don't get any romance stuff doesn't fly here.



littleladybug -> RE: first contact advice (7/19/2015 8:49:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

And again, subs are much different than slaves. subs require more wooing, and more vanilla, because it is a partnership. slaves wish and need to be property, and treated as such. The conversation dynamics should match that, though until properly collared, a slave still has free will.


I am a slave, and require my partner (notice I said "partner") to be romantic. This slave also doesn't "need to be property". The definitions of the terms, obviously, aren't universal.



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