The Iran Deal

The Iran Deal (Full Version)

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joether -> The Iran Deal (7/24/2015 10:27:53 AM)
It's come to my attention that many do not know what the treaty is that is in the news. That Kerry and many others have been working for months to create and finalize. That misinformation from the '24/7/365' propaganda machine in the conservative ideology area has done a good job in keeping the American people in the dark about our government. It took me some time to hunt down the actual 159 page document. Reading through its pretty easy to understand the terms. Iran stands to loose more than they gain by screwing with the treaty. Which will hopefully motivate their moderates to keep the hardliners in-line and contained. Now all we have to do in the United States, is keep our hardliners in-line from their saber rattling rantings (i.e. Scott Walker). The Treaty

subrob1967 -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/24/2015 10:31:09 AM)
FR That's only if Iran complies with the terms of the treaty... That's a big fucking IF. You may trust Iran, Obama may trust Iran, Kerry already stated he didn't then flip flopped to support the President... But the rest of the SANE world doesn't trust Iran... But then that's because we're sane.

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/24/2015 10:45:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR That's only if Iran complies with the terms of the treaty... That's a big fucking IF. You may trust Iran, Obama may trust Iran, Kerry already stated he didn't then flip flopped to support the President... But the rest of the SANE world doesn't trust Iran... But then that's because we're sane. And we arent Shiite sympathizers This deal blatantly tilts the balance of power in the Middle East toward militant Shiites in ways that are setting off alarm bells throughout the region

mnottertail -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/24/2015 10:48:30 AM)
Uh, nobody trusts Iran. So, rather than a verifiable treaty, what do you propose? You are the problem, not the solution.

Politesub53 -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/24/2015 5:21:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 FR That's only if Iran complies with the terms of the treaty... That's a big fucking IF. You may trust Iran, Obama may trust Iran, Kerry already stated he didn't then flip flopped to support the President... But the rest of the SANE world doesn't trust Iran... But then that's because we're sane. And we arent Shiite sympathizers This deal blatantly tilts the balance of power in the Middle East toward militant Shiites in ways that are setting off alarm bells throughout the region Two joke posts. Firstly, only the insane would think there was a better solution at this moment in time. I certainly havent heard anyone give a good alternative, on here or in the media. Secondly, Sanity is being quite the hypocrite (whats new) when he talks about the Shiite sympathisers. This is the man that told us Bush went into Iran to liberate the the peole from Saddam and his Bathist regime (All Sunni) Sanity also forgets all the current troubles with terrorists have been from Sunni groups, sadly for him most of us are able to read the truth.

KenDckey -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/24/2015 10:35:43 PM)
One of the requirements to the inspection process as I understand it is that Iraq can stall up to a month. With a portable generator http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1536_web.pdf (there are other references that I found) they could be disassembled and moved in that time frame.

RemoteUser -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/24/2015 11:31:23 PM)
I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about. What, Iran will have access to nuclear power? Like a number of other countries already do, run by leaders that are not well trusted by significant portions of their respective populations to begin with? Stephen Harper is a frickin nutjob who has shown psychopathic tendencies and given more than one sidelong glance at restructuring the government of Canada to a dictatorship. This man can launch nukes. I trust Iran more than I trust him. However, at the end of the day, we have the knowledge and it's NOT going to be unlearned. Fear is natural enough, but what you do with that fear is a whole nuther thing. We can moan and cringe and panic, or we can try to set up some kind of practical safeguards that in any reality, some portion of the global population is never going to trust no matter what. Sharing knowledge and ideas is not the worst start ever. If the fear is that great, ask yourself why we haven't simply removed all of the accessible uranium from the planet altogether and sent it off-world to avoid the temptation. Realistically? Even if we lost the components to the closest thing we've invented to a world killer, we're going to just make another. So again it comes back to, how should it be handled, by whom, that freaks out the smallest portion of the world (because people in countries without nuclear power are still terrified of someone else pressing a button and being killed, just like you and anyone else). Plans aimed towards peace don't always work, but I'm content in holding the opinion that this is big enough for the effort to be made. Consider the alternatives. One country with all the power will become a huge target. A bloc of countries will be distrusted no matter who is chosen. Destroying the ability to ever harness nuclear power again will only encourage people to find alternatives because war equals profit. If you believe I missed something, feel free to point it out.

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 7:56:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Sanity also forgets all the current troubles with terrorists have been from Sunni groups, sadly for him most of us are able to read the truth. Thats just another lie on your part. https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=iran+funding+wars Why is it that leftists almost universally believe that their lies and ad hominems and other such brain dead debate fallacies are the same as factual debate People are smarter than that

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 8:00:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RemoteUser I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about. What, Iran will have access to nuclear power? Like a number of other countries already do, run by leaders that are not well trusted by significant portions of their respective populations to begin with? Stephen Harper is a frickin nutjob who has shown psychopathic tendencies and given more than one sidelong glance at restructuring the government of Canada to a dictatorship. This man can launch nukes. I trust Iran more than I trust him. However, at the end of the day, we have the knowledge and it's NOT going to be unlearned. Fear is natural enough, but what you do with that fear is a whole nuther thing. We can moan and cringe and panic, or we can try to set up some kind of practical safeguards that in any reality, some portion of the global population is never going to trust no matter what. Sharing knowledge and ideas is not the worst start ever. If the fear is that great, ask yourself why we haven't simply removed all of the accessible uranium from the planet altogether and sent it off-world to avoid the temptation. Realistically? Even if we lost the components to the closest thing we've invented to a world killer, we're going to just make another. So again it comes back to, how should it be handled, by whom, that freaks out the smallest portion of the world (because people in countries without nuclear power are still terrified of someone else pressing a button and being killed, just like you and anyone else). Plans aimed towards peace don't always work, but I'm content in holding the opinion that this is big enough for the effort to be made. Consider the alternatives. One country with all the power will become a huge target. A bloc of countries will be distrusted no matter who is chosen. Destroying the ability to ever harness nuclear power again will only encourage people to find alternatives because war equals profit. If you believe I missed something, feel free to point it out. Not every country preaches about how great it will be to murder other entire nations (Israel and the US). Not every country whips itself into a frenzied mob over the prospect of martyrdom in the name of Allah Islamists dont think like you and me. They dont even think as well as your average three-year-old does, and so you want to do everything you can to keep them from getting nuclear weapons (Just one more reason to never vote Democrat)

mnottertail -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 9:10:17 AM)
Actually, it is 'republicans' and 'conservatives' you don't want to vote for, all this happened when they were in office.

tweakabelle -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 9:26:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Islamists dont think like you and me. They dont even think as well as your average three-year-old does, and so you want to do everything you can to keep them from getting nuclear weapons (Just one more reason to never vote Democrat) Iranians are Shia Muslims Sanity. Islamists such as AQ or IS come from the Sunni sect of Islam, and they regard Shias as apostates, heretics. So Iranians aren't Islamists. Please get your terminology right - it helps to convey the impression that you know what you are talking about. (Just one more reason not to pay any attention to looney right wingers who generally don't know what they are talking about, and have a disastrous record on interventions in the Middle East {remember Iraq?})

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 10:24:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Islamists dont think like you and me. They dont even think as well as your average three-year-old does, and so you want to do everything you can to keep them from getting nuclear weapons (Just one more reason to never vote Democrat) Iranians are Shia Muslims Sanity. Islamists such as AQ or IS come from the Sunni sect of Islam, and they regard Shias as apostates, heretics. So Iranians aren't Islamists. Please get your terminology right - it helps to convey the impression that you know what you are talking about. (Just one more reason not to pay any attention to looney right wingers who generally don't know what they are talking about, and have a disastrous record on interventions in the Middle East {remember Iraq?}) Funny how some who obviously dont know even the basics about certain things, try to talk down to those who actually are knowledgeable Wikipedias definition isnt entirely accurate, but it is much closer to the proper definition than tweakas will ever be: quote: Islamist views emphasize the implementation of Sharia (Islamic law); of pan-Islamic political unity; and of the selective removal of non-Muslim, particularly Western military, economic, political, social, or cultural influences in the Muslim world that they believe to be incompatible with Islam. Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A lot more information here

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 10:27:56 AM)
FR Have any of your Obama News Networks shown you this? [img]http://www.rushimg.com/cimages//media/images/ts-protest2/1400255-1-eng-GB/TS-protest.jpg[/img] Thousands Rallied Against the Iran Deal in Times Square

tweakabelle -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 10:33:31 AM)
If you know what you were talking about, rather than having to refer to unreliable sources such as wiki you would know that Iranians don't share an ethnic heritage or a desire for pan-political unity with Arab and/or Sunni Muslims. The term Islamist in common parlance refers to Sunni extremist sects such as Al Quada and IS, groups that have nothing in common with the Iranian 'agenda'. They believe Shia are for killing, not forming political alliances with. It is not helpful to confuse the two - rather like saying the IRA and the UVF shared a political agenda. In reality those two groups hated each other murderously. There is enough ignorance about Middle Eastern politics in the West without your adding to it, which you seem to do every time you post on the topic.

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 11:00:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle If you know what you were talking about, rather than having to refer to unreliable sources such as wiki you would know that Iranians don't share an ethnic heritage or a desire for pan-political unity with Arab and/or Sunni Muslims. The term Islamist in common parlance refers to Sunni extremist sects such as Al Quada and IS, groups that have nothing in common with the Iranian 'agenda'. They believe Shia are for killing, not forming political alliances with. It is not helpful to confuse the two - rather like saying the IRA and the UVF shared a political agenda. In reality those two groups hated each other murderously. There is enough ignorance about Middle Eastern politics in the West without your adding to it, which you seem to do every time you post on the topic. From Webster: quote: Definition of ISLAMISM 1 : the faith, doctrine, or cause of Islam 2 : a popular reform movement advocating the reordering of government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam — Is·lam·ist \-mist\ noun Youll never find a legitimate source to back your wild guess about what Islamism is, they all say the same thing I do.

Politesub53 -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 4:29:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Sanity also forgets all the current troubles with terrorists have been from Sunni groups, sadly for him most of us are able to read the truth. Thats just another lie on your part. https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=iran+funding+wars Why is it that leftists almost universally believe that their lies and ad hominems and other such brain dead debate fallacies are the same as factual debate People are smarter than that It isnt a lie, it is just you are too fucking stupid to read any of your links, or comprehend what I said.

MrRodgers -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 4:55:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity FR Have any of your Obama News Networks shown you this? [img]http://www.rushimg.com/cimages//media/images/ts-protest2/1400255-1-eng-GB/TS-protest.jpg[/img] Thousands Rallied Against the Iran Deal in Times Square Looks like they are rallying in favor of the deal.

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 5:54:04 PM)
Ad hominems, lies, BS, nothing else - typical post from those with your views, and the inherent lack of ability to defend them.

Sanity -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 5:55:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity FR Have any of your Obama News Networks shown you this? [img]http://www.rushimg.com/cimages//media/images/ts-protest2/1400255-1-eng-GB/TS-protest.jpg[/img] Thousands Rallied Against the Iran Deal in Times Square Looks like they are rallying in favor of the deal. I can see how a person who cannot read might think that

MrRodgers -> RE: The Iran Deal (7/25/2015 6:01:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Ad hominems, lies, BS, nothing else - typical post from those with your views, and the inherent lack of ability to defend them. There is nothing in your post or link from which one could reliably draw the conclusion that this rally was against the deal.

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