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The Iran Deal - 7/24/2015 10:27:53 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		It's come to my attention that many do not know what the treaty is that is in the news. That Kerry and many others have been working for months to create and finalize. That misinformation from the '24/7/365' propaganda machine in the conservative ideology area has done a good job in keeping the American people in the dark about our government.

It took me some time to hunt down the actual 159 page document. Reading through its pretty easy to understand the terms. Iran stands to loose more than they gain by screwing with the treaty. Which will hopefully motivate their moderates to keep the hardliners in-line and contained. Now all we have to do in the United States, is keep our hardliners in-line from their saber rattling rantings (i.e. Scott Walker).

The Treaty
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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/24/2015 10:31:09 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		FR

That's only if Iran complies with the terms of the treaty... That's a big fucking IF.

You may trust Iran, Obama may trust Iran, Kerry already stated he didn't then flip flopped to support the President... But the rest of the SANE world doesn't trust Iran... But then that's because we're sane.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/24/2015 10:45:17 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

That's only if Iran complies with the terms of the treaty... That's a big fucking IF.

You may trust Iran, Obama may trust Iran, Kerry already stated he didn't then flip flopped to support the President... But the rest of the SANE world doesn't trust Iran... But then that's because we're sane.


And we arent Shiite sympathizers

This deal blatantly tilts the balance of power in the Middle East toward militant Shiites in ways that are setting off alarm bells throughout the region

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/24/2015 10:48:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Uh, nobody trusts Iran. So, rather than a verifiable treaty, what do you propose? You are the problem, not the solution.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/24/2015 5:21:22 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

That's only if Iran complies with the terms of the treaty... That's a big fucking IF.

You may trust Iran, Obama may trust Iran, Kerry already stated he didn't then flip flopped to support the President... But the rest of the SANE world doesn't trust Iran... But then that's because we're sane.


And we arent Shiite sympathizers

This deal blatantly tilts the balance of power in the Middle East toward militant Shiites in ways that are setting off alarm bells throughout the region


Two joke posts. Firstly, only the insane would think there was a better solution at this moment in time. I certainly havent heard anyone give a good alternative, on here or in the media.

Secondly, Sanity is being quite the hypocrite (whats new) when he talks about the Shiite sympathisers. This is the man that told us Bush went into Iran to liberate the the peole from Saddam and his Bathist regime (All Sunni)

Sanity also forgets all the current troubles with terrorists have been from Sunni groups, sadly for him most of us are able to read the truth.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/24/2015 10:35:43 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		One of the requirements to the inspection process as I understand it is that Iraq can stall up to a month. With a portable generator

http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1536_web.pdf

(there are other references that I found) they could be disassembled and moved in that time frame.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/24/2015 11:31:23 PM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about.

What, Iran will have access to nuclear power? Like a number of other countries already do, run by leaders that are not well trusted by significant portions of their respective populations to begin with?

Stephen Harper is a frickin nutjob who has shown psychopathic tendencies and given more than one sidelong glance at restructuring the government of Canada to a dictatorship. This man can launch nukes. I trust Iran more than I trust him.

However, at the end of the day, we have the knowledge and it's NOT going to be unlearned. Fear is natural enough, but what you do with that fear is a whole nuther thing. We can moan and cringe and panic, or we can try to set up some kind of practical safeguards that in any reality, some portion of the global population is never going to trust no matter what. Sharing knowledge and ideas is not the worst start ever.

If the fear is that great, ask yourself why we haven't simply removed all of the accessible uranium from the planet altogether and sent it off-world to avoid the temptation. Realistically? Even if we lost the components to the closest thing we've invented to a world killer, we're going to just make another. So again it comes back to, how should it be handled, by whom, that freaks out the smallest portion of the world (because people in countries without nuclear power are still terrified of someone else pressing a button and being killed, just like you and anyone else).

Plans aimed towards peace don't always work, but I'm content in holding the opinion that this is big enough for the effort to be made. Consider the alternatives. One country with all the power will become a huge target. A bloc of countries will be distrusted no matter who is chosen. Destroying the ability to ever harness nuclear power again will only encourage people to find alternatives because war equals profit.

If you believe I missed something, feel free to point it out.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 7:56:33 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Sanity also forgets all the current troubles with terrorists have been from Sunni groups, sadly for him most of us are able to read the truth.



Thats just another lie on your part.

https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=iran+funding+wars

Why is it that leftists almost universally believe that their lies and ad hominems and other such brain dead debate fallacies are the same as factual debate

People are smarter than that

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 8:00:28 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about.

What, Iran will have access to nuclear power? Like a number of other countries already do, run by leaders that are not well trusted by significant portions of their respective populations to begin with?

Stephen Harper is a frickin nutjob who has shown psychopathic tendencies and given more than one sidelong glance at restructuring the government of Canada to a dictatorship. This man can launch nukes. I trust Iran more than I trust him.

However, at the end of the day, we have the knowledge and it's NOT going to be unlearned. Fear is natural enough, but what you do with that fear is a whole nuther thing. We can moan and cringe and panic, or we can try to set up some kind of practical safeguards that in any reality, some portion of the global population is never going to trust no matter what. Sharing knowledge and ideas is not the worst start ever.

If the fear is that great, ask yourself why we haven't simply removed all of the accessible uranium from the planet altogether and sent it off-world to avoid the temptation. Realistically? Even if we lost the components to the closest thing we've invented to a world killer, we're going to just make another. So again it comes back to, how should it be handled, by whom, that freaks out the smallest portion of the world (because people in countries without nuclear power are still terrified of someone else pressing a button and being killed, just like you and anyone else).

Plans aimed towards peace don't always work, but I'm content in holding the opinion that this is big enough for the effort to be made. Consider the alternatives. One country with all the power will become a huge target. A bloc of countries will be distrusted no matter who is chosen. Destroying the ability to ever harness nuclear power again will only encourage people to find alternatives because war equals profit.

If you believe I missed something, feel free to point it out.


Not every country preaches about how great it will be to murder other entire nations (Israel and the US). Not every country whips itself into a frenzied mob over the prospect of martyrdom in the name of Allah

Islamists dont think like you and me. They dont even think as well as your average three-year-old does, and so you want to do everything you can to keep them from getting nuclear weapons

(Just one more reason to never vote Democrat)

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 9:10:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Actually, it is 'republicans' and 'conservatives' you don't want to vote for, all this happened when they were in office.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 9:26:01 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Islamists dont think like you and me. They dont even think as well as your average three-year-old does, and so you want to do everything you can to keep them from getting nuclear weapons

(Just one more reason to never vote Democrat)

Iranians are Shia Muslims Sanity. Islamists such as AQ or IS come from the Sunni sect of Islam, and they regard Shias as apostates, heretics. So Iranians aren't Islamists. Please get your terminology right - it helps to convey the impression that you know what you are talking about.

(Just one more reason not to pay any attention to looney right wingers who generally don't know what they are talking about, and have a disastrous record on interventions in the Middle East {remember Iraq?})

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 7/25/2015 9:27:10 AM >

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 10:24:05 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Islamists dont think like you and me. They dont even think as well as your average three-year-old does, and so you want to do everything you can to keep them from getting nuclear weapons

(Just one more reason to never vote Democrat)

Iranians are Shia Muslims Sanity. Islamists such as AQ or IS come from the Sunni sect of Islam, and they regard Shias as apostates, heretics. So Iranians aren't Islamists. Please get your terminology right - it helps to convey the impression that you know what you are talking about.

(Just one more reason not to pay any attention to looney right wingers who generally don't know what they are talking about, and have a disastrous record on interventions in the Middle East {remember Iraq?})


Funny how some who obviously dont know even the basics about certain things, try to talk down to those who actually are knowledgeable

Wikipedias definition isnt entirely accurate, but it is much closer to the proper definition than tweakas will ever be:

quote:



Islamist views emphasize the implementation of Sharia (Islamic law); of pan-Islamic political unity; and of the selective removal of non-Muslim, particularly Western military, economic, political, social, or cultural influences in the Muslim world that they believe to be incompatible with Islam.

Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A lot more information here



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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 10:27:56 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
FR

Have any of your Obama News Networks shown you this?



Thousands Rallied Against the Iran Deal in Times Square

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 10:33:31 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		If you know what you were talking about, rather than having to refer to unreliable sources such as wiki you would know that Iranians don't share an ethnic heritage or a desire for pan-political unity with Arab and/or Sunni Muslims.

The term Islamist in common parlance refers to Sunni extremist sects such as Al Quada and IS, groups that have nothing in common with the Iranian 'agenda'. They believe Shia are for killing, not forming political alliances with. It is not helpful to confuse the two - rather like saying the IRA and the UVF shared a political agenda. In reality those two groups hated each other murderously.

There is enough ignorance about Middle Eastern politics in the West without your adding to it, which you seem to do every time you post on the topic.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 11:00:56 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If you know what you were talking about, rather than having to refer to unreliable sources such as wiki you would know that Iranians don't share an ethnic heritage or a desire for pan-political unity with Arab and/or Sunni Muslims.

The term Islamist in common parlance refers to Sunni extremist sects such as Al Quada and IS, groups that have nothing in common with the Iranian 'agenda'. They believe Shia are for killing, not forming political alliances with. It is not helpful to confuse the two - rather like saying the IRA and the UVF shared a political agenda. In reality those two groups hated each other murderously.

There is enough ignorance about Middle Eastern politics in the West without your adding to it, which you seem to do every time you post on the topic.


From Webster:

quote:


Definition of ISLAMISM
1
: the faith, doctrine, or cause of Islam
2
: a popular reform movement advocating the reordering of government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam
— Is·lam·ist
\-mist\ noun


Youll never find a legitimate source to back your wild guess about what Islamism is, they all say the same thing I do.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 7/25/2015 11:01:23 AM >

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 4:29:18 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Sanity also forgets all the current troubles with terrorists have been from Sunni groups, sadly for him most of us are able to read the truth.



Thats just another lie on your part.

https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

https://www.google.com/search?q=iran+terror&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=iran+funding+wars

Why is it that leftists almost universally believe that their lies and ad hominems and other such brain dead debate fallacies are the same as factual debate

People are smarter than that


It isnt a lie, it is just you are too fucking stupid to read any of your links, or comprehend what I said.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 4:55:54 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


FR

Have any of your Obama News Networks shown you this?



Thousands Rallied Against the Iran Deal in Times Square

Looks like they are rallying in favor of the deal.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 5:54:04 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Ad hominems, lies, BS, nothing else - typical post from those with your views, and the inherent lack of ability to defend them.

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 5:55:28 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


FR

Have any of your Obama News Networks shown you this?



Thousands Rallied Against the Iran Deal in Times Square

Looks like they are rallying in favor of the deal.


I can see how a person who cannot read might think that

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RE: The Iran Deal - 7/25/2015 6:01:22 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ad hominems, lies, BS, nothing else - typical post from those with your views, and the inherent lack of ability to defend them.

There is nothing in your post or link from which one could reliably draw the conclusion that this rally was against the deal.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 7/25/2015 6:02:05 PM >

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