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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 7:37:39 AM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

There are NO RULES in the Christian religion about baking a cake for a gay wedding


Actually there is. God destroyed an entire city of homosexuals. Given that example not baking them a cake should be interpreted as a kindness.


Are there are any scriptures which state "Thou shalt not bake a cake for a gay wedding"?

(in reply to Arturas)
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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 7:46:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		What city was that? There is no such account in the bible. And before you say stupid shit, not Sodom, not Gomorrah, read the thing, you will see that you are projecting something into the facts of the case.

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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 9:42:53 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

There are NO RULES in the Christian religion about baking a cake for a gay wedding


Actually there is. God destroyed an entire city of homosexuals. Given that example not baking them a cake should be interpreted as a kindness.


Hmmm I wonder what the ratio of gays to straights needs to be before God destroys earth again... He would be a busy God trying to destroy gayness since it has always been a part of mankind... Hmmm again... if God made man in his image then he is 1/5 gay as well.

I guess under the Constitution he could always put a gun to his head and end his gayness.... that is if a gun can kill God... if not maybe a thunderbolt.... Either way get that queer out-a-here.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/29/2015 9:45:05 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 10:22:43 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

There are NO RULES in the Christian religion about baking a cake for a gay wedding


Actually there is. God destroyed an entire city of homosexuals. Given that example not baking them a cake should be interpreted as a kindness.


Hmmm I wonder what the ratio of gays to straights needs to be before God destroys earth again... He would be a busy God trying to destroy gayness since it has always been a part of mankind... Hmmm again... if God made man in his image then he is 1/5 gay as well.

I guess under the Constitution he could always put a gun to his head and end his gayness.... that is if a gun can kill God... if not maybe a thunderbolt.... Either way get that queer out-a-here.

Butch
God is 20% gay? Based on...what?

"The Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law, a sexual orientation law think tank, released a study in April 2011 estimating based on its research that 1.7 percent of American adults identify as gay or lesbian, while another 1.8 percent identify as bisexual."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

Like a lot of Americans, you're over-estimating:

Highlights

Estimate is similar to what was measured in 2011 and 2002

Latest estimate shows that 3.8% actually identify as LGBT

Estimates are lower among those with the most education

PRINCETON, N.J. -- The American public estimates on average that 23% of Americans are gay or lesbian, little changed from Americans' 25% estimate in 2011, and only slightly higher than separate 2002 estimates of the gay and lesbian population. These estimates are many times higher than the 3.8% of the adult population who identified themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender in Gallup Daily tracking in the first four months of this year.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183383/americans-greatly-overestimate-percent-gay-lesbian.aspx

So, by you stating God is 20% gay, you've made Him/Her 5 times more gay than He/She actually is.

BTW...as interesting as all this off-tangent stuff is, what does it have to do with a MUSLIM barber refusing to cut a woman's hair?

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/29/2015 10:25:03 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 10:59:31 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe...ok 1/20 gay... can God live with that? What is needed is a righteous God to smite the queer one... any idea where we can find a God of mankind that does not create homosexuals?... wait wait I know... ALLAH...Hey maybe a UFC match between the Gods... bet the queer God looses.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/29/2015 11:04:48 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 10:59:57 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD



So if I go into a Kosher Jewish deli and order a ham sandwich I can sue them if they don't provide it for me.


It's not the same argument. If they don't have ham anywhere in the store, then they can't make a sandwich out of what they don't have.

We're talking about specific religious beliefs here, and the argument the store owner is making "I can not [perform this service] because to do so would violate my beliefs." There are rules in the Jewish religion regarding the eating of pork. There are rules in the Muslim religion regarding whether a man can cut the hair or touch a woman who's not his wife or blood relative. These are specific, unambiguous rules which are documented in Scriptures and can be easily verified.

There are NO RULES in the Christian religion about baking a cake for a gay wedding. If there was, then maybe (just maybe) they'd have an argument. If there are any rules to that effect, then they've already ostensibly violated them by continuing to reside in a country where homosexuality has been made legal. So, it's too late for them to save their souls now; might as well just bake the cake.

And nowhere in the bakery did they have a two bride topper but we were told in that thread that they HAD TO GO GET ONE or they were bigots.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)
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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 11:01:56 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

There are NO RULES in the Christian religion about baking a cake for a gay wedding


Actually there is. God destroyed an entire city of homosexuals. Given that example not baking them a cake should be interpreted as a kindness.


Hmmm I wonder what the ratio of gays to straights needs to be before God destroys earth again... He would be a busy God trying to destroy gayness since it has always been a part of mankind... Hmmm again... if God made man in his image then he is 1/5 gay as well.

I guess under the Constitution he could always put a gun to his head and end his gayness.... that is if a gun can kill God... if not maybe a thunderbolt.... Either way get that queer out-a-here.

Butch

The baker one wasn't about the right to be gay, and this one most assuredly isn't. They are both about forcing people to violate their religion so you will feel good.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 11:35:47 AM   
Zonie63


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From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And nowhere in the bakery did they have a two bride topper but we were told in that thread that they HAD TO GO GET ONE or they were bigots.


As I recall, the issue of the topper was relatively minor. If they don't have it, they don't have it. But the lawsuit was about a total refusal of service, cake and all. If they made the cake and just didn't have a topper, I don't see how they could be sued over just that.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 12:26:44 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD



So if I go into a Kosher Jewish deli and order a ham sandwich I can sue them if they don't provide it for me.


It's not the same argument. If they don't have ham anywhere in the store, then they can't make a sandwich out of what they don't have.

We're talking about specific religious beliefs here, and the argument the store owner is making "I can not [perform this service] because to do so would violate my beliefs." There are rules in the Jewish religion regarding the eating of pork. There are rules in the Muslim religion regarding whether a man can cut the hair or touch a woman who's not his wife or blood relative. These are specific, unambiguous rules which are documented in Scriptures and can be easily verified.

There are NO RULES in the Christian religion about baking a cake for a gay wedding. If there was, then maybe (just maybe) they'd have an argument. If there are any rules to that effect, then they've already ostensibly violated them by continuing to reside in a country where homosexuality has been made legal. So, it's too late for them to save their souls now; might as well just bake the cake.

And nowhere in the bakery did they have a two bride topper but we were told in that thread that they HAD TO GO GET ONE or they were bigots.

Oh dear God. That's just good business.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 12:27:58 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And nowhere in the bakery did they have a two bride topper but we were told in that thread that they HAD TO GO GET ONE or they were bigots.


As I recall, the issue of the topper was relatively minor. If they don't have it, they don't have it. But the lawsuit was about a total refusal of service, cake and all. If they made the cake and just didn't have a topper, I don't see how they could be sued over just that.

And they wanted them to be forced to participate in a gay wedding when there were lots (and closer) ones who had no problem doing it.
At the time they were "refused service" they didn't even know when (as in what year) they were going to have the wedding as they waited till it was legal in Oregon. So the baker was sued for not wanting to participate in something that wasn't even legal at the time. That alone should have given them a pass. The case this thread is about is simply a case of PC gone mad.
If you didn't hold Christians in the kind of contempt that you pretend Christians have for gays you would see that.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 1:33:21 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Latest estimate shows that 3.8% actually identify as LGBT



Perhaps, but in terms of the % of people who are bi or gay, in practice, it is as safe as houses to say that is higher than 3.8%

You would be very, very surprised at the amount of married and self-proclaimed straight men who are bi.

I think the levels would shock some people on these threads. If you don't mix in those circles then you wouldn't know and it would be an eye-opener for many.




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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 2:10:25 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD



So if I go into a Kosher Jewish deli and order a ham sandwich I can sue them if they don't provide it for me.


It's not the same argument. If they don't have ham anywhere in the store, then they can't make a sandwich out of what they don't have.

We're talking about specific religious beliefs here, and the argument the store owner is making "I can not [perform this service] because to do so would violate my beliefs." There are rules in the Jewish religion regarding the eating of pork. There are rules in the Muslim religion regarding whether a man can cut the hair or touch a woman who's not his wife or blood relative. These are specific, unambiguous rules which are documented in Scriptures and can be easily verified.

There are NO RULES in the Christian religion about baking a cake for a gay wedding. If there was, then maybe (just maybe) they'd have an argument. If there are any rules to that effect, then they've already ostensibly violated them by continuing to reside in a country where homosexuality has been made legal. So, it's too late for them to save their souls now; might as well just bake the cake.

And nowhere in the bakery did they have a two bride topper but we were told in that thread that they HAD TO GO GET ONE or they were bigots.

source please

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(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 2:11:06 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		How about we just all go to our local muslim resturant and order bacon? Seems fair to me.

Then we can all go to our local photography studio and demand nude pics of us in the mall.

There is no end.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 2:31:31 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Latest estimate shows that 3.8% actually identify as LGBT



Perhaps, but in terms of the % of people who are bi or gay, in practice, it is as safe as houses to say that is higher than 3.8%

You would be very, very surprised at the amount of married and self-proclaimed straight men who are bi.

I think the levels would shock some people on these threads. If you don't mix in those circles then you wouldn't know and it would be an eye-opener for many.

I'm sure the percentage is higher...but 16.2% more? Do you honestly think 20% of the population, either in the U.S. or worldwide...identifies as gay, lesbian or bisexual? As a matter of fact, the percentage in Lation or African countries is reported as much lower. Culture is one big reason, I know, but how long do you think it will be before they come close to the true percentage in those countries?



(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 2:34:53 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Latest estimate shows that 3.8% actually identify as LGBT



Perhaps, but in terms of the % of people who are bi or gay, in practice, it is as safe as houses to say that is higher than 3.8%

You would be very, very surprised at the amount of married and self-proclaimed straight men who are bi.

I think the levels would shock some people on these threads. If you don't mix in those circles then you wouldn't know and it would be an eye-opener for many.

I'm sure the percentage is higher...but 16.2% more? Do you honestly think 20% of the population, either in the U.S. or worldwide...identifies as gay, lesbian or bisexual? As a matter of fact, the percentage in Lation or African countries is reported as much lower. Culture is one big reason, I know, but how long do you think it will be before they come close to the true percentage in those countries?





Maybe not identify, as some people like to keep these things private; but at least 16% gay or bi? - yes.

There will be people on this board chatting regularly who identify as purely straight, but aren't.


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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 2:41:47 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Latest estimate shows that 3.8% actually identify as LGBT



Perhaps, but in terms of the % of people who are bi or gay, in practice, it is as safe as houses to say that is higher than 3.8%

You would be very, very surprised at the amount of married and self-proclaimed straight men who are bi.

I think the levels would shock some people on these threads. If you don't mix in those circles then you wouldn't know and it would be an eye-opener for many.

I'm sure the percentage is higher...but 16.2% more? Do you honestly think 20% of the population, either in the U.S. or worldwide...identifies as gay, lesbian or bisexual? As a matter of fact, the percentage in Lation or African countries is reported as much lower. Culture is one big reason, I know, but how long do you think it will be before they come close to the true percentage in those countries?





Maybe not identify, as some people like to keep these things private; but at least 16% gay or bi? - yes.

There will be people on this board chatting regularly who identify as purely straight, but aren't.

16%? Do you have some source that states that or even suggests it?

And while I agree with you...and the original article...that there are people who won't identify as anything other than straight even though they are, I find it hard to believe that it is 4 times the number that do.

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 2:47:15 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Latest estimate shows that 3.8% actually identify as LGBT



Perhaps, but in terms of the % of people who are bi or gay, in practice, it is as safe as houses to say that is higher than 3.8%

You would be very, very surprised at the amount of married and self-proclaimed straight men who are bi.

I think the levels would shock some people on these threads. If you don't mix in those circles then you wouldn't know and it would be an eye-opener for many.

I'm sure the percentage is higher...but 16.2% more? Do you honestly think 20% of the population, either in the U.S. or worldwide...identifies as gay, lesbian or bisexual? As a matter of fact, the percentage in Lation or African countries is reported as much lower. Culture is one big reason, I know, but how long do you think it will be before they come close to the true percentage in those countries?





Maybe not identify, as some people like to keep these things private; but at least 16% gay or bi? - yes.

There will be people on this board chatting regularly who identify as purely straight, but aren't.

16%? Do you have some source that states that or even suggests it?

And while I agree with you...and the original article...that there are people who won't identify as anything other than straight even though they are, I find it hard to believe that it is 4 times the number that do.



No, no. No source. Purely anecdotal derived from conversations with people I know who are bi.


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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 2:52:38 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

16%? Do you have some source that states that or even suggests it?

This research brief discusses challenges associated with collecting better information about the LGBT community and reviews eleven recent US and international surveys that ask sexual orientation or gender identity questions... Key findings from the research brief are as follows:

An estimated 3.5% of adults in the United States identify as lesbian, gay, or bisexual and an estimated 0.3% of adults are transgender.

Estimates of those who report any lifetime same-sex sexual behavior and any same-sex sexual attraction are substantially higher than estimates of those who identify as LGB. An estimated 19 million Americans (8.2%) report that they have engaged in same-sex sexual behavior and nearly 25.6 million Americans (11%) acknowledge at least some same-sex sexual attraction

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf

K.


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RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 4:33:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And nowhere in the bakery did they have a two bride topper but we were told in that thread that they HAD TO GO GET ONE or they were bigots.


As I recall, the issue of the topper was relatively minor. If they don't have it, they don't have it. But the lawsuit was about a total refusal of service, cake and all. If they made the cake and just didn't have a topper, I don't see how they could be sued over just that.

If it was so minor why did not having it make them bigots?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Religious Rights Not "Good Enough" to Ref... - 7/29/2015 5:49:15 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And nowhere in the bakery did they have a two bride topper but we were told in that thread that they HAD TO GO GET ONE or they were bigots.


As I recall, the issue of the topper was relatively minor. If they don't have it, they don't have it. But the lawsuit was about a total refusal of service, cake and all. If they made the cake and just didn't have a topper, I don't see how they could be sued over just that.

If it was so minor why did not having it make them bigots?


They were called bigots for not having a topper?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 140
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