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Obama Pours Gas on the Mideast Fire

The nuclear deal with Iran will stoke more Sunni-Shiite violence, and the Saudis may go shopping for nukes.

While President Obama hopes his nuclear deal with Iran will burnish his presidential legacy as a great peacemaker, the near-term consequence will be more—and even bloodier—sectarian violence in the Middle East. In particular, security threats will escalate for Saudi Arabia and Israel, until now America’s two major Mideast allies.

The Israelis and Saudis, longtime adversaries, in recent years have joined in vehement opposition to Mr. Obama’s attempts to negotiate a nuclear deal with Tehran. For the Israelis the concern was entirely about an Iranian atomic weapon. But for the Saudis the fear was less about future nuclear capability than about the real and present threat that a deal would further enhance Iran’s regional stature and its capability to ratchet up the regime’s exploitation of regional sectarian divisions.

That nightmare has arrived...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-pours-gas-on-the-mideast-fire-1437087768

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US-Gulf summit: Saudi King 'snubs' President Obama over his perceived inattention to the region

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"I sometimes wonder if certain Islamist apologists and assorted far left trolls sometimes dream of having the ability to discuss and debate issues without having to resort to their standard ad hominems and other fallacies. In other words, if they have the capacity to understand how their constant over reliance on such fallacies and derailing topics etc undermines their arguments, as well as their long term credibility "

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ORIGINAL: Sanity


FR

I sometimes wonder if certain Islamist apologists and assorted far left trolls sometimes dream of having the ability to discuss and debate issues without having to resort to their standard ad hominems and other fallacies. In other words, if they have the capacity to understand how their constant over reliance on such fallacies and derailing topics etc undermines their arguments, as well as their long term credibility

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


FR

I sometimes wonder if certain Islamist apologists and assorted far left trolls sometimes dream of having the ability to discuss and debate issues without having to resort to their standard ad hominems and other fallacies. In other words, if they have the capacity to understand how their constant over reliance on such fallacies and derailing topics etc undermines their arguments, as well as their long term credibility

Now you realize how we see you. Interesting that you start your lament with your standard ad hominems and other fallacies, lacking the ability to discuss an
d debate issues without them. In other words, whether you have the capacity to understand how your constant reliance on such fallacies and derailing topics (even your own! lol), undermines your arguments (under that rare conditions that you actually pose one) as well as your long term credibility (which sailed years ago--you've been a joke here for as long as I can remember).

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Do with the information as you will, and tell yourself what you need to hear.

The point stands, illustrated by your own posts.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Thanks for that link to Patrick Cockburn's piece in the Independent. He and Robert Fisk are among the most incisive and well informed analysts of ME politics that I know of writing the mas media today.

The article provides a useful lens through which one can view the ME today, in particular the simmering religious civil war set off by the disastrous invasion of Iraq championed by Bush Blair Howard and the rest of the gang of neo con war criminals. The duplicitous role of the Saudis is prominent in stoking this civil war should be remembered when viewing Saudi aggression in Yemen and Bahrain, as well as their financing of IS and al Nusra jihadis in Syria Iraq and elsewhere. Yet Western Govts still propagate the lie that Iranian expansionism is the underlying cause, the threat than needs containing.

Those posters highlighting Saudi opposition to the Iran deal ought to remember the nature of the beast they are citing - medieval theocrats who adhere to an intolerant extremist Wahabbi sect of Islam, people who prefer IS and Islamist violence to democracy and human rights, amoral autocrats who prefer to instigate a religious civil war through out the ME than have their privileged existence challenged by the tens of millions of poor souls who labour under their tyrannical rule.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Laughable stuff sanity.......... Your own trolling and baiting is duly noted.

Quoting the Saudis or Israelis dosnt make you right, it just shows you politics at worst. Next you will be pissing and moaning again regards Obamas use of drones or his decision to carry out air strikes against ISIS.

It is incredible that you are championing one of the very countries were ISIS and AQ get much of thier financial support from.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

If you really want a grown up debate, which I doubt, read the link, do some research and get back to me.

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Saudi Arabia Unveils Badass Anti-ISIS Wall That Makes US ...
www.ijreview.com/2015/01/233628-saudi-arabia-anti-isis-wall/
The prospect of this wall separating Iraq from Saudi Arabia is not a welcome one for ISIS, whose goals include capturing Saudi Arabia – home to the Holy ...
‎
Saudi Arabia ISIS - Huffington Post
www.huffingtonpost.com/news/saudi-arabia-isis/
The Huffington Post

Saudi Arabia Says Thwarts ISIS Attacks, Hundreds Arrested ... RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi Arabia announced Saturday it has broken up planned ...
The Coming ISIS Assault on Saudi Arabia Means Awful Things
www.nationaljournal.com/.../saudi-arabia-isis-threat-dam...

National Journal
May 29, 2015 - ISIS has its next target, and it's one that threatens U.S. interests in the region more than anything you've seen from the terrorist group so far.
Why ISIS Wants Saudi Arabia, But The Kingdom May Be ...
www.ibtimes.com/why-isis-wants-saudi-arab...

International Business Times
Dec 2, 2014 - While ISIS ideology and some fighters have quietly trickled into the 90 percent Sunni country, oil-rich and U.S.-friendly Saudi Arabia may be the ...

Links between Turkey and ISIS are now 'undeniable'
Business Insider‎ - 2 days ago
REUTERS/Umit Bektas An ISIS fighter walks near a black .... On the ground, this is effectively ISIS and it's allies in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE and

Packistan vs. Saudi Arabia: 44 ISIS terror suspects arrested

Gulf Digital News‎ - 1 day ago

Saudi Arabia says Turkey has right to self-defense

Fearing ISIS, Saudi Arabia Turns Back to Washington
www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabia-isis-islamic-state-united-states-299047
Jan 13, 2015 - In a predawn raid earlier this month, armed militants operating from the so-called Islamic State, or ISIS, breached the northern Saudi Arabia ...

Saudi Arabia arrests 431 with ISIS ties - CNN.com
www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/.../saudi-arabia-arrests-431-with-isis-ties/

CNN
Jul 18, 2015 - (CNN) Saudi Arabia has arrested 431 people who are part of a "network of cluster cells linked to the terrorist ISIS organization," according to the ...
Saudi Arabia Says It Stopped ISIS Attacks on Kingdom; 400 ...
www.nbcnews.com/.../isis.../saudi-arabia-says-it-stopped-i...

NBCNews.com
Jul 18, 2015 - RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Saudi Arabia announced Saturday it has broken up planned ISIS attacks in the kingdom and arrested more than 400 ...

The Who, What, and Why of ISIS' Bombings in Saudi Arabia ...
nationalinterest.org/.../the-who-what-why-isis-bomb...
The National Interest

Jun 5, 2015 - If, after the Islamic State (IS) claimed responsibility for the May 22 suicide bombing at a Shia mosque in Saudi Arabia's Qatif region, you pointed ...
Islamic State sets sights on Saudi Arabia - BBC News
www.bbc.com/.../world-europe-300611...

British Broadcasting Corporation
Nov 14, 2014 - In a 17-minute audio message, purportedly from its elusive leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the group sets its sights firmly on Saudi Arabia, ...

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Laughable stuff sanity.......... Your own trolling and baiting is duly noted.

Quoting the Saudis or Israelis dosnt make you right, it just shows you politics at worst. Next you will be pissing and moaning again regards Obamas use of drones or his decision to carry out air strikes against ISIS.

It is incredible that you are championing one of the very countries were ISIS and AQ get much of thier financial support from.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

If you really want a grown up debate, which I doubt, read the link, do some research and get back to me.

You are confusing my posting a news article about the Saudis as reference, with my championing them. I quoted the news sources that I did for a specific reason. That you try and twist that into a personal attack is a sad comment on your state of mind

If ever you and your friends were to try to address the topics here rather than constantly obsess with trying to make other posters look bad perhaps you would learn a thing or two here, and membership could increase as the boards became more enjoyable

Re the topic, the political reality is that we have historically been allied with the Saudis for good reason, up until Obama managed to upend everything in the region either out of maliciousness or stupidity, or possibly both. Threw gasoline on the fires, as stated in the first news source I quoted above

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Laughable stuff

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Obama's Ludicrous Middle East Policy

President Obama flirts with chaos.

The Middle East is in meltdown. The Syrian civil war is unrestrained. Tens of thousands have died. Saudi Arabia and Turkey are considering direct intervention. Syria’s mayhem threatens to spill into Lebanon, and in Beirut, Iran and Hezbollah wage terrorism against their political opponents.

Jordan is overwhelmed by a refugee crisis of staggering proportions.

Iraq teeters on the brink of collapse. Its government remains divided and weak. Unsupported by America, the Sunni tribes are wedged between the jackboot of Iran and the horrors of ISIS.

Yemen is a Mad Max battleground between Saudi Arabia and Iranian-supported Houthi rebels (and nationalists, separatists, and al-Qaeda).

But while the operative cause of this disaster is authoritarianism and the rot of political Islam, President Obama’s strategy is certainly catalyzing the catastrophe. And now, thanks to his delusion, the chaos is about to get a thermonuclear injection. Just read what one Gulf leader currently visiting Washington told the New York Times: “We can’t sit back and be nowhere as Iran is allowed to retain much of its capability and amass its research.”

The Saudis have made themselves clear. As I explained in February, Iran’s acquisition of a nuclear capability will lead to reciprocal action by the Saudi government. After all, Saudi Arabia’s long-term financial support for Pakistan’s nuclear program has never been just about Islamic beneficence. Instead, that funding was a down payment for future opportunity.

This speaks to the great failing of President Obama’s Middle East policy: its narrow focus.

President Obama believes rapprochement with Iran is fostered by his tangible support for the more moderate elements of that regime. But he neglects two undeniable facts. First, Iran’s policy toward the United States is shaped not only by deep mistrust but also by outright hatred. To be sure, President Obama has forged trust with more-moderates like Foreign Minister Zarif and President Rouhani. Yet he has neglected the simultaneous need to deter regime hard-liners who hate America and hold great influence over the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei. Today, those hard-liners are empowered by President Obama’s strategic hesitation.

Don’t believe me? Just look at what they’re doing.

Two weeks ago, Iran seized a Marshall Islands–flagged cargo ship. Last week, an Iranian general said, “We welcome war with the Americans.” This week, the Iranians sent a cargo ship to Yemen to test whether Obama would prevent them from supplying the Houthi rebels. Yesterday, the Iranians fired on a Singapore-flagged cargo ship in the Strait of Hormuz. The U.S. Navy’s response? To send an unarmed plane that arrived too late to do anything. As CNN noted, “The Pentagon recently stopped escorting commercial vessels through the Strait of Hormuz, and it’s not clear if those operations will resume.”

Of course, Iran’s growing hostility was entirely predictable...

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418410/obamas-ludicrous-middle-east-policy-tom-rogan

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The list of links included in post 52 are almost all very recent, and inhindsight the Saudis have woken up to the threat they helped create. There is no doubt almost all of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, nor that Saudi Arabia and Qatar helped arm IS.

Here is more food for thought. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9547142/why-saudi-arabia-is-kicking-back-against-the-usa/

Huckabee should be deeply ashamed of his slur on the President, anywhere else in the Western World and he would have been forced to resign by public pressure...... democracy in action. Add that to his slurs in beyonce, the mentally ill etc and it beggars belief that he could run for probably the highest office in the west.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

If you think I am okay with the bloodlust of IS, you can get fucked.