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RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 11:16:14 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I definitely think the top 10 will shift dramatically for the next debate, if there's even that many standing by then.

Fiorina is probably the best bet on a VP nod to balance anybody but Trump.

But considering his comments about buying politicians on both sides, I see The Donald as a big part of the system's problem.

Interesting that Trump refused to agree not to run as an independent if somebody else gets the nomination.

He is certainly not my favorite but he said that was the problem. He is continually attacked for telling the truth.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 11:55:31 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3664
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Rand Paul looks (and acts) like a bratty 12yo with a labradoodle on his head.

Trump is quite opinionated, which is good in a lot of ways because it draws attention to issues people care about.

Illegal immigration has to be prevented, and a viable solution must be presented to deal with the ones already here. It has to be a package deal, otherwise this is going to be a topic discussed for the next 20 elections.

But realize there is still a huge difference in how illegal immigrants from Latin America are treated as opposed to how Cuban immigrants are treated. Cuba has been one of the top 10 countries of origin for immigrants to the US for quite some time. If they reach American soil, they're allowed to stay and can be legal residents in as little as a year. Yet Latin Americans and Mexicans that come to the US are being demonized as rapists, murderers, and drug dealers. And maybe some of them are good people.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 12:13:20 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Rand Paul looks (and acts) like a bratty 12yo with a labradoodle on his head.
Trump is quite opinionated, which is good in a lot of ways because it draws attention to issues people care about.
Illegal immigration has to be prevented, and a viable solution must be presented to deal with the ones already here. It has to be a package deal, otherwise this is going to be a topic discussed for the next 20 elections.
But realize there is still a huge difference in how illegal immigrants from Latin America are treated as opposed to how Cuban immigrants are treated. Cuba has been one of the top 10 countries of origin for immigrants to the US for quite some time. If they reach American soil, they're allowed to stay and can be legal residents in as little as a year. Yet Latin Americans and Mexicans that come to the US are being demonized as rapists, murderers, and drug dealers. And maybe some of them are good people.


Why is there a difference in the immigration policies, JVOV? Yes. there is a difference, but why? Did you look into that?


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 12:27:08 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3664
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		White guilt? Cuz JFK royally fucked up with the Bay of Pigs invasion? "Only communist government in the Western Hemisphere"? "Political refugees"? "The sharks will probably get them before they get here"?

I dunno. Pick one.

But tell me that there's a difference between the reasons for a Cuban family braving the trip to the US and a Venezuelan family, or Mexican family, or Chilean, or Nicaraguan.

Or tell me that you can prove none of the Cuban exiles have any sort of criminal past when they get here, possibly including things we'd consider terrorist activity.

< Message edited by JVoV -- 8/7/2015 12:29:04 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 12:46:13 PM   
JVoV


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Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Anyway, my point in bringing up the difference for Cuban immigrants is that it seems quite hypocritical for say Rubio & Cruz to discuss illegal immigrants when the policies are different for Cubans than other Latin Americans.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 1:22:38 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Rand Paul looks (and acts) like a bratty 12yo with a labradoodle on his head.

Trump is quite opinionated, which is good in a lot of ways because it draws attention to issues people care about.

Illegal immigration has to be prevented, and a viable solution must be presented to deal with the ones already here. It has to be a package deal, otherwise this is going to be a topic discussed for the next 20 elections.

But realize there is still a huge difference in how illegal immigrants from Latin America are treated as opposed to how Cuban immigrants are treated. Cuba has been one of the top 10 countries of origin for immigrants to the US for quite some time. If they reach American soil, they're allowed to stay and can be legal residents in as little as a year. Yet Latin Americans and Mexicans that come to the US are being demonized as rapists, murderers, and drug dealers. And maybe some of them are good people.

The Cubans risk everything to come here. They seek political asylum.
Political asylum has different rules from immigrants. You do understand that if they tried to follow the rules of normal immigration they would be in jail.
Latin Americans on the other hand show contempt for the law by ignoring it when they come here. A disproportionate number of them are criminals by any assessment of what makes a criminal.
The illegals can't be given any advantage over people who follow the rules, even if you don't like the rules.
If they are fast tracked it will get you more no matter what the agreement is.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 1:46:53 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The Cubans risk everything to come here. They seek political asylum.
Political asylum has different rules from immigrants.


They are allowed asylum only because of our official stance in their government. Many people from Latin American are fleeing conditions even worse than Cuba, conditions that have everything to do with their government, but due to political niceties we don't grant asylum status to them.

quote:

You do understand that if they tried to follow the rules of normal immigration they would be in jail.


No, if they tried to follow the rules of normal immigration they would never get here.

Because normal immigration is pretty much non-existent.

Because of the US does not want to endanger its 'friendly' status with these countries, the laws are incredibly stringent. People who follow the rules may have to wait 20 years get legal status. Hell, even people from countries that the US has had recent wars with (like Iraq) can gain legal status easier than Latin Americans can.

quote:

I've tried to explain before.


As have I.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 2:14:45 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The Cubans risk everything to come here. They seek political asylum.
Political asylum has different rules from immigrants.


They are allowed asylum only because of our official stance in their government. Many people from Latin American are fleeing conditions even worse than Cuba, conditions that have everything to do with their government, but due to political niceties we don't grant asylum status to them.

quote:

You do understand that if they tried to follow the rules of normal immigration they would be in jail.


No, if they tried to follow the rules of normal immigration they would never get here.

Because normal immigration is pretty much non-existent.

Because of the US does not want to endanger its 'friendly' status with these countries, the laws are incredibly stringent. People who follow the rules may have to wait 20 years get legal status. Hell, even people from countries that the US has had recent wars with (like Iraq) can gain legal status easier than Latin Americans can.

quote:

I've tried to explain before.


As have I.


Come on now, you know that the reference to being jailed was what would happen if we had the same rules for Cubans as for others.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 2:27:16 PM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		I truly wonder how someone seeking political asylum can go back home for cheap dental work or holidays.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/fears-of-immigration-policy-change-triggers-new-wave-of-cuban-migrants/2015/01/27/8d6ca65c-a0e5-11e4-91fc-7dff95a14458_story.html

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 2:50:31 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		FR

Is there are genuine chance of Trump winning? I mean, ye gods and little fishes ... Trump in the White House? The world would be shaking in horror ....


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 3:07:21 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Is there are genuine chance of Trump winning? I mean, ye gods and little fishes ... Trump in the White House? The world would be shaking in horror ....



I think there isn't---based on this premise: even though he's presently leading, its because there are so many other candidates. its what karl rove is calling a high floor but a low ceiling.

there's a good chance he is not the 2nd choice of most people (his unfavorability numbers are pretty high), so as each of the other candidates drop away, his fan base will (if what im saying is true) stay about the same size, while his competitors' will grow.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 3:30:07 PM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		Polls will be all over the place, but the first actual GOP Primary isn't until February 2nd, at the earliest.

Meaning we'll have to listen to all of them for at least six months.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 3:31:52 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Thank god for that. I mean, the man is clearly a narcissistic, sociopathic fruitcake. I'd put him in the same box as Saddam Hussein. You *cannot* let someone like that get anywhere near real political power in the most powerful nation on the planet.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 4:23:14 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Is there are genuine chance of Trump winning? I mean, ye gods and little fishes ... Trump in the White House? The world would be shaking in horror ....



Trump even complained about the questioning from Fox News, he obviously thought they were too left wing for him.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 4:34:28 PM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		Trump may still go independent. (run as)

I hope he's pissed at the repubs because that would be a godsend for the dems and likely put Hillary the white house.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 4:35:14 PM   
DaddySatyr


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The only reason a "President Trump" would be amusing is to watch all of the PPLs, moaning and wailing and gnashing their teeth.

The only way I'd vote for Donald Trump was if the Anti-Christ is the alternative (and I'll turn a blind eye to voter fraud for anyone willing to vote for him, too).



Michael

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 4:38:11 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Is there are genuine chance of Trump winning? I mean, ye gods and little fishes ... Trump in the White House? The world would be shaking in horror ....



I think there isn't---based on this premise: even though he's presently leading, its because there are so many other candidates. its what karl rove is calling a high floor but a low ceiling.

there's a good chance he is not the 2nd choice of most people (his unfavorability numbers are pretty high), so as each of the other candidates drop away, his fan base will (if what im saying is true) stay about the same size, while his competitors' will grow.

As I was telling my son the other day. Trump is like when Jackson ran for president. At first in a field of 7 or 8 (I don't remember the number) he did real well. Something like 25%. When there were five it was still 25%.
When there were 3 it was still 25%. When it was one it was Mondale.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 4:39:46 PM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Trump may still go independent. (run as)

I hope he's pissed at the repubs because that would be a godsend for the dems and likely put Hillary the white house.


Unless you realize that Trump basically admitted to buying access to politicians, including Hillary. In which case both of them should be under investigation.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 4:40:09 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Polls will be all over the place, but the first actual GOP Primary isn't until February 2nd, at the earliest.

Meaning we'll have to listen to all of them for at least six months.

No some will drop out before then.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: an early start on the fox news republican candidate... - 8/7/2015 4:41:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


The only reason a "President Trump" would be amusing is to watch all of the PPLs, moaning and wailing and gnashing their teeth.

The only way I'd vote for Donald Trump was if the Anti-Christ is the alternative (and I'll turn a blind eye to voter fraud for anyone willing to vote for him, too).



Michael

So he would get your vote against Hillary.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 60
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