joether
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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:
ORIGINAL: bounty44
perhaps the point then is to look at the nature of the executive orders? I could be wrong, but I don't remember these conversations going on when carter, or Clinton were presidents.
have any of the republican presidents created executive orders that were in the eyes of some, unconstitutional?
its laughable to think if that were the case, despite how much liberals don't like the constitution really, that they wouldn't be calling republicans on that very thing.
at the moment, you don't have a "hypocrisy" case to make unless you answer the two points above.
I don't recall anybody debating whether or not any exec. orders were unconstitutional...until now. That's regardless of the nature of the order. Gee...I wonder why.
It is quite possible that they ALL are, seeing as how...they are not law. There might be a narrow bureaucratic allowance but I am sure it would take the courts a long time to sort through them all.
Plus, I've seen at least as much or in fact more disregard for the constitution from the right than from the left in this country.
and your argument for the sudden revelation and charge of the unconstitutionality of some executive orders is what? am sorry to ask this but i don't see another option in the left's mind---that Obama's black?
An set of executive orders to place 'prisoners' whom were 'accused of crime(s)' against the United States of America in a place called Guantanamo Bay, Cuba? (violations of the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments). Executive orders allowing for 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques on said prisoners'? (Violation of the 8th amendment). An whom allowed all of this? George W. Bush. Where were all the conservative and libertarian outrage to Mr. Bush doing all this? Or His admnistration? Or towards the GOP/TP for allowing it? Particularly that Repbulican-controlled Congresss whom gave a blind eye towards the whole state of affairs.
If a Democrat had done any of that, you and every other conservative and libertarian would be all over them for it. So why is it your totally silent when your party and ideology breaks constitutional laws?
The purpose of the US Constitution is two fold:
1 ) To define the rules by which the federal government exists and its level of power/control over all persons found within its domain.
2 ) The limits of those powers by the federal government over all persons found within its domain.
Did the federal government control the area that the prisoners were located? Yes. Therefore, the US Constitution applies. Which means if the government takes someone into custody as either a 'prisoner of war' or a 'suspect accused of a crime'; they are afforded a number of rights (humanitarian and constitutional).
Why did we not declare war on Iran? The feeble-minded 'yes men' of the Republican controlled Congress would have signed off on it. Its because if they took prisoners 'of interest' they would have to give them all the same rights as any POW due to all the international treaties.
Why not treat them like anyone else the government takes into custody and accused of a crime? Because then they would have access to a lawyer, right to see the evidence against them, and be treated fairly under the law.
Nope, they were defined as 'Enemy Combatants'. What is an 'Enemy Combatant'? A person with no rights. Neither constitutional nor human. They have....NOTHING. So if they are tortured, 'oh well....'.
Many conservatives and libertarians at large and within this forum (like you) bitch constantly about the government doing evil things towards US Citizens. Of jailing them, torturing them, and other draconian measures that you feel are unconstitutional. Jade Helm 15 was/is a great example that the delusion still has not dissipated from reality for you guys. If its wrong for the US Government to perform these actions.....
.....WHY.....
Was it 'OK' for the George W. Bush administration, through a series of executive orders and privileges, to perform these actions? Your the ones that not only voted Republican then, but do so now! The reason is easy....
You feel you can bash the current administration for far less questionable actions as they relate to the US Constitution, and are pissed off angry when you learn that the rest of the nation does not see it that way. Your side has lost credibility and integrity in an irresponsible bid to claim power. Kinda of like what a tyrant does....
You justify in your mind that the 'Ends Justify the Means' with the actions Republican have taken, and are currently taken. That in the 'end', you'll be vindicated of all crimes and punishments.
You wont be. Because the liberals and moderates have long memories and consult history books quite often. You do not hold the people you desire in power to the same level of accountability and responsibility with power, as you slam Democrats and the President on the hour of every day! Until you, and all the other conservatives and libertarians do so; you'll NEVER get anything you want.
In ways you understand that. Hence why so many conservatives and libertarians have talked about taking the country by force. Planting a new 'constitution' that is pro-conserative in its ideology. Taking steps that are ever increasingly evil and vile towards other people (basically non-white males). Or I could just dumb down the 'tyrannical process' to just a word. Since conservatives and libertarians are not know for their 'in-depth' thinking processes. NAZIS!
Yes, that evil bunch whom used misdirection, lies, and propaganda in the media to spread the message that 'undesirables' cost their country greatly (not the evil people, but the good people). Kinda of like how modern day conservatives and libertarians view illegal immigrants. And that there should be two ways the US Constitution works. One for US Citizens and one for all others. Of course as time progresses even that is modified so only those preaching conservative ideology gets 'constitutional' rights and all other US Citizens are lumped in with the undesirables.
Kind of like what conservatives and libertarians do towards liberals and moderates....
Your side is 'OK' with hatred. Even trying to use religion, to justify why a group of people can not marry; even though when one removes the religion from the equation there is no arguments left to fall back upon. Your afraid of the illegal immigrants and what they might do. Unscrupulous people, like those in the higher end of the GOP/TP and corporations know this. And they know how to harness that fear. Turn it into more rage and hatred. Once your that level of anger; your MUCH EASIER to manipulate and control for evil purposes.
Kind of like what conservative media is doing right now.....
They have conditioned you so well to obedience while ignoring reality. Which is what happen to many whom joined the Nazis. When their nation was utterly destroyed, and saw the stuff they did not want to see nor listen to; did they realize their mistakes. They paid a very heavy price.
Why allow this to happened to the United States of America?
You can not form even an ounce of a decent reply. You do not hold the people you want in power (or are in power) to even a billionth of the level you attack Democrats and the President on issues. If you were ever to do such a thing.....
...We'd have awesome government overnight! You can't do that. Not enough education. Not enough thought processing. Not enough courage. That's why the liberals and moderates have to pull double-duty shifts to keep this nation going; because 30% of this nation has been compromised by those with evil intent masquerading around as 'your friends'. The founding fathers warned about tyranny. An in their times, things were much more simple. In 2015, everything is much more sophisticated. From firearms to ships. From roadways to medicine.
Should we not expect tyranny to become the same? More so, should we not guard against it?
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