quote:

to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate

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ORIGINAL: JVoV

And again, Cubans that make it to American soil cannot be deported. How can we embrace uncontrolled and unsanctioned immigration from one country while demonizing it from another?

With diplomatic relations reestablished with Cuba, our immigration policy must change. This cannot be ignored in the conversation.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Who said I don't want them to come here? Since I want immigration policies to improve, to legally allow more into the country, and to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate, how does that in any way, shape, or form, translate into me not wanting people to want to immigrate?

My desire for illegal immigration to drop in no way impacts my desire for legal immigration to expand.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate

I think today this needs to be just the opposite... I would limit immigration to those with needed skills... those with fiscally responsible US citizen relatives or sponsors and no one else.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate

I think today this needs to be just the opposite... I would limit immigration to those with needed skills... those with fiscally responsible US citizen relatives or sponsors and no one else.

Butch

that is pretty much what you have today as your immigration policies.. doesnt seem to be working very well tho.. [8|]

I have spoken about this before.. In reality, there is no reasonable and efficient way for immigrants to get a visa/green card to start a business here without $1 million (verifiable) in the bank, which means you are losing a ton of jobs that would be created by immigrants who want to and can start businesses and create jobs with less than that.. In a previous thread I posted an article by an American that went to Spain to start a business and within a couple of months she had been approved (and she didnt go there with a bag full of cash either), plus she could qualify for a govt loan from Spain for her small business.. there are plenty of other examples of how stupid the US govt is about immigrant entrepreneurs.. some of those entrepreneurs are the undocumented immigrants y'all want to chuck over the (yet to be built) fence..

"more than 40 percent of the Fortune 500 companies in 2010 were founded by an immigrant or the child of an immigrant. Yet, despite their vast economic contributions, U.S. law provides no dedicated means for immigrant entrepreneurs to launch innovative companies in the United States. "

http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/resources/entrepreneurship-policy-digest/the-economic-case-for-welcoming-immigrant-entrepreneurs

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ORIGINAL: SirMatty1

Let me think.

Trump is hardly a full "American" neither is "Bobby" and who was beating up Obama?

Those jerks need some therapy.

We should require that they can prove 3 generations of citizenship, which would eliminate a few idiots.
Make that four or five and the whole thing lightens up.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think the fastest way...is to remove the reason they are coming. All it would take would be strict penalties for hiring illegals. Say 20 years with no parole. After a few examples employers would not hire illegals and without jobs there would be no reason to come here... No need for expensive walls and immigration agents. Then with the remove of birthrights and requirements for needed skills for legal immigrants our troubles will be over. Our young people will again have decent entry level jobs and the welfare burden will be reduced... bah Humbug... yes eliminate the excess illegal population.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: Sanity


The illegals invading now are starting lawn companies, stealing masons jobs, framing jobs and other construction obs. Pushing our kids out of the jobs they used to do to work their way through high school and college

You dont have this problem up in Canada yet you feel entitled to preach to us about our problems like you have half a clue

Fuck off eh

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think the fastest way...is to remove the reason they are coming. All it would take would be strict penalties for hiring illegals. Say 20 years with no parole. After a few examples employers would not hire illegals and without jobs there would be no reason to come here... No need for expensive walls and immigration agents. Then with the remove of birthrights and requirements for needed skills for legal immigrants our troubles will be over. Our young people will again have decent entry level jobs and the welfare burden will be reduced... bah Humbug... yes eliminate the excess illegal population.

Butch

not really, independent contractors (who work for themselves) would still be working and that is how a fair amount of undocumented immigrants get work and have a tax #.. its not difficult to hire them and still be within the law.. and removing birthrights aint gonna happen either..

Really, if it were as easy to fix as you claim, it would have happened decades ago..

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think the fastest way...is to remove the reason they are coming. All it would take would be strict penalties for hiring illegals. Say 20 years with no parole. After a few examples employers would not hire illegals and without jobs there would be no reason to come here... No need for expensive walls and immigration agents. Then with the remove of birthrights and requirements for needed skills for legal immigrants our troubles will be over. Our young people will again have decent entry level jobs and the welfare burden will be reduced... bah Humbug... yes eliminate the excess illegal population.

Butch

not really, independent contractors (who work for themselves) would still be working and that is how a fair amount of undocumented immigrants get work and have a tax #.. its not difficult to hire them and still be within the law.. and removing birthrights aint gonna happen either..

Really, if it were as easy to fix as you claim, it would have happened decades ago..

We didnt have someone like Trump in office, decades ago

All we get are these wishy-washy wannabe politically correct, low testosterone career politician types who take a poll before deciding what to have for lunch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think the fastest way...is to remove the reason they are coming. All it would take would be strict penalties for hiring illegals. Say 20 years with no parole. After a few examples employers would not hire illegals and without jobs there would be no reason to come here... No need for expensive walls and immigration agents. Then with the remove of birthrights and requirements for needed skills for legal immigrants our troubles will be over. Our young people will again have decent entry level jobs and the welfare burden will be reduced... bah Humbug... yes eliminate the excess illegal population.

Butch

not really, independent contractors (who work for themselves) would still be working and that is how a fair amount of undocumented immigrants get work and have a tax #.. its not difficult to hire them and still be within the law.. and removing birthrights aint gonna happen either..

Really, if it were as easy to fix as you claim, it would have happened decades ago..

We didnt have someone like Trump in office, decades ago

All we get are these wishy-washy wannabe politically correct, low testosterone career politician types who take a poll before deciding what to have for lunch

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think the fastest way...is to remove the reason they are coming. All it would take would be strict penalties for hiring illegals. Say 20 years with no parole. After a few examples employers would not hire illegals and without jobs there would be no reason to come here... No need for expensive walls and immigration agents. Then with the remove of birthrights and requirements for needed skills for legal immigrants our troubles will be over. Our young people will again have decent entry level jobs and the welfare burden will be reduced... bah Humbug... yes eliminate the excess illegal population.

Butch

not really, independent contractors (who work for themselves) would still be working and that is how a fair amount of undocumented immigrants get work and have a tax #.. its not difficult to hire them and still be within the law.. and removing birthrights aint gonna happen either..

Really, if it were as easy to fix as you claim, it would have happened decades ago..

We didnt have someone like Trump in office, decades ago

All we get are these wishy-washy wannabe politically correct, low testosterone career politician types who take a poll before deciding what to have for lunch

lol.. and yet y'all just keep electing them! insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate

I think today this needs to be just the opposite... I would limit immigration to those with needed skills... those with fiscally responsible US citizen relatives or sponsors and no one else.

Butch

that is pretty much what you have today as your immigration policies.. doesnt seem to be working very well tho.. [8|]

I have spoken about this before.. In reality, there is no reasonable and efficient way for immigrants to get a visa/green card to start a business here without $1 million (verifiable) in the bank, which means you are losing a ton of jobs that would be created by immigrants who want to and can start businesses and create jobs with less than that.. In a previous thread I posted an article by an American that went to Spain to start a business and within a couple of months she had been approved (and she didnt go there with a bag full of cash either), plus she could qualify for a govt loan from Spain for her small business.. there are plenty of other examples of how stupid the US govt is about immigrant entrepreneurs.. some of those entrepreneurs are the undocumented immigrants y'all want to chuck over the (yet to be built) fence..

"more than 40 percent of the Fortune 500 companies in 2010 were founded by an immigrant or the child of an immigrant. Yet, despite their vast economic contributions, U.S. law provides no dedicated means for immigrant entrepreneurs to launch innovative companies in the United States. "

http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/resources/entrepreneurship-policy-digest/the-economic-case-for-welcoming-immigrant-entrepreneurs

The illegals invading now are starting lawn companies, stealing masons jobs, framing jobs and other construction obs. Pushing our kids out of the jobs they used to do to work their way through high school and college

You dont have this problem up in Canada yet you feel entitled to preach to us about our problems like you have half a clue

Fuck off eh

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ORIGINAL: cadenas

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

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No, it wasn't that he was born on a reservation, but that he had allegiance other than the US at birth.

If we read the whole case we find that because he is a native American, not a U.S. citizen and part of a separate nation(to which he owed allegiance) within the boundaries of the U.S. he has no birthright. The fact that he renounced his tribal citizenship did not matter because he was more than 49% native American and not eligible to be a citizen. Native Americans were not made citizens until 1924. There were exceptions made for exceptional people but they were few and far between.

Yeah, no. He wasn't granted birthright citizenship not because he was 49% Native American, or because he wasn't born in the US. He was born with allegiance to his tribe first and foremost. Illegal immigrants still owe allegiance to their country of citizenship. Their kids, therefore, owe their allegiance to the same.

That's a misinterpretation of the clause. It's quite simple actually: illegal immigrants can be arrested by US police, and tried in US courts. Thus, they are subject to US jurisdiction. It has nothing to do with allegiance (which is a concept usually only monarchies and dictatorships have in the first place - "owing allegiance" is the difference between a citizen and a subject).
In the Elk case, allegiance only mattered because his allegiance made him subject to tribal justice first, and exempt from at least part of the US judicial system. That's still true today, BTW - this is why tribes can operate casinos in states that do not allow gambling. Today, that question is mostly moot. It still does have one impact: tribal members, even today, don't receive their US citizenship through the 14th Amendment, but through an ordinary law, and that could theoretically be repealed without a Constitutional Amendment.
Diplomats are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, meaning that diplomats cannot be arrested within the USA or tried in US courts. In fact, the "under the jurisdiction" clause in the 14th Amendment was specifically created only for diplomats.
But anybody who can be arrested by US police and tried in US courts is clearly subject to US jurisdiction - thus, the 14th Amendment guarantees birthright citizenship.

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ORIGINAL: cadenas

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: MercTech
There does seem to be a need for clarification of the "Law of the Land" and "law of the Blood" considerations for citizenship. If you are born of citizens; you are a citizen. If you are born of parents resident in the country; you are a citizen.
Is being a "resident" of the country the same for someone on a visa for employment in the country, a "resident alien" with a green card and lawfully registered with the State Department, Haitian boat people who manage to get above the high tide mark, or tunnel crawlers across the Mexican border?
To legally enter the U.S. for work; a person has to meet some selection criteria. The unskilled often just can't get in legally. No sponsor, no job, no Visa.

How's this for a birthright citizenship test?

• If a newborn's parents are both only US Citizens, the child is a US Citizen.
  
• If a newborn's parents hold dual Citizenship, including US Citizenship, the child is a US Citizen or holds dual Citizenship, like the parents, at the parents' choosing.
  
• If only one of a newborn's parents is a US Citizen, the newborn is either a US Citizen, a Citizen of the other parent's home country, or holds dual Citizenship, at the parents' choosing.
  
• If at least one of a newborn's parents is legally in the US, the newborn is either a US Citizen, a Citizen of the parents' home country, or holds dual Citizenship, at the parents' choosing.
  
• If a newborn's parents are not in the US legally, the newborn is a Citizen of the parents' country, and does not hold US Citizenship.

First of all, your rules would put us on a par with countries such as Iraq and Kuwait. Birthright citizenship is the standard nearly anywhere in the civilized world; even Germany has finally (at least partially) implemented it after holding on to Hitler's citizenship laws for nearly half a century. I think Japan is still a holdout, but they have a lot of other rules based on racial purity.
Also, your rules don't work, because the US has no say in what happens to foreign citizenships. Many countries don't grant citizenship to children born abroad (for instance, children of Indian citizens in the USA will never be Indian citizens).

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And even if the parents don't want their children to be US citizens, that wouldn't matter - parents aren't allowed to renounce citizenship on behalf of their children. Only the citizen personally can do that, and only after age 18.

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Your rules also fail in the case of parents without any nationality at all.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate

I think today this needs to be just the opposite... I would limit immigration to those with needed skills... those with fiscally responsible US citizen relatives or sponsors and no one else.
Butch