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solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 1:42:57 AM   
KenDckey


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http://www.solareis.anl.gov/guide/environment/index.cfm

I am divided on solar power.
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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 2:04:02 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.solareis.anl.gov/guide/environment/index.cfm

I am divided on solar power.

So was BP. It wasn't that long ago that they decided to dump their investments in it entirely stating that they couldn't make enough profit to cover the costs.

In my opinion, despite some of the breakthroughs that have been made, the technology still needs improvements in efficiency and density before I'll consider spending my money on it.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 2:49:07 AM   
MrRodgers


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The problem with solar is on two fronts. One is that while its costs have come down to a small fraction compared to when first developed, the success of which is starting to make real dent in fossil fuel power, are heading into a nationwide assault by the established fossil fuel interests.

2nd the front in various state govts. by the fossile fuel establishment to tax, or 'fee' or limit and regulate solar out of competition to fossil fuel profits.

This causes a 3rd problem that results in a reduction not only in the supply of solar energy for electric power but slows the technological development that one day should outperform fossil fuel costs.

Why am I not surprised !!

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 4:57:02 AM   
servantforuse


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For practical reasons it doesn't work well here in Wisconsin. December is one of our coldest months and also one with the most cloud cover.

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 6:27:13 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

In my opinion, despite some of the breakthroughs that have been made, the technology still needs improvements in efficiency and density before I'll consider spending my money on it.



Is Storage Necessary for Renewable Energy?

http://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesignArticles/ArticleID/8272/Is-Storage-Necessary-for-Renewable-Energy.aspx

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 6:32:14 AM   
Thegunnysez


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Would you agree that Germany has similar weather conditions?

http://www.powermag.com/texas-and-germany-energy-twins/

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 6:36:26 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.solareis.anl.gov/guide/environment/index.cfm

I am divided on solar power.


Edison does not seem to be.

The Biggest Battery in North America Gets Unveiled by SCE Today


http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/The-Biggest-Battery-in-North-America-Gets-Unveiled-By-SCE-Today

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 6:47:36 AM   
tweakabelle


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The recent market release of a small cheap power conservation unit - Tesla's domestic 'battery' - is said by many to be a game changer.

By storing the electricity generated by solar power so that it can be used 24/7 it changes the economics of domestic solar power. I believe it's currently retailing at c$3,500 and the price is certain to be reduced as greater market penetration and economies of scale kick in.


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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 6:59:07 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The recent market release of a small cheap power conservation unit - Tesla's domestic 'battery' - is said by many to be a game changer.

By storing the electricity generated by solar power so that it can be used 24/7 it changes the economics of domestic solar power. I believe it's currently retailing at c$3,500 and the price is certain to be reduced as greater market penetration and economies of scale kick in.



That may be why Edison just bought 8 mw of them.


http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/The-Biggest-Battery-in-North-America-Gets-Unveiled-By-SCE-Today

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 7:23:40 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez


quote:

In my opinion, despite some of the breakthroughs that have been made, the technology still needs improvements in efficiency and density before I'll consider spending my money on it.



Is Storage Necessary for Renewable Energy?

http://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesignArticles/ArticleID/8272/Is-Storage-Necessary-for-Renewable-Energy.aspx

What I mean by density is watts/sq. ft. produced.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 8:01:07 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

What I mean by density is watts/sq. ft. produced.


I an not unaware of the meaning of density. How much density do you want. My first panel made about 4w per sq.ft. current stuff is almost 14 w/sq.ft. That coupled with the price dropping from $8/watt to about $1/watt.

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 8:25:06 AM   
kdsub


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I know it is a little down the road... but solar reflectors in geosynchronous orbit for solar generation seems to be a good way to go. But i can imagine a disaster if the aiming went nuts. It could be a weapon if a hacker or terrorist got control of it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/26/2015 8:26:50 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 8:30:34 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I know it is a little down the road... but solar reflectors in geosynchronous orbit for solar generation seems to be a good way to go. But i can imagine a disaster if the aiming went nuts. It could be a weapon if a hacker or terrorist got control of it.

Butch

The stuff I have seen written up has the electricity being beamed back to earth not the concentrated light. I can't find the link but I think they have been successful at transmitting something in the millivolt range. Yes that is about enough to light a headlamp for a gnat but it is a start. In the meantime terrestrial sites seem to be gaining traction.

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 10:27:12 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
http://www.solareis.anl.gov/guide/environment/index.cfm
I am divided on solar power.


I'm not.

I don't think anyone should be forced to invest in solar, to use solar, or forced to include renewables (not just solar) in their mix of production capabilities.

I want to put solar up, but it's not high on my list of priorities, and I don't have the money or time to get my priority list cleared. For instance, I'd like to put panels and a water heating panel on my garage roof (it has the most space facing the proper direction), but I need a new garage roof first. Not only would it be difficult to re-roof the garage (needs replacement of underlay sheathing, too) with a solar installation on it, but the stability of a solar installation would be jeopardized by being up on an unsound roof.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 10:36:46 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:


I don't think anyone should be forced to invest in solar, to use solar, or forced to include renewables (not just solar) in their mix of production capabilities.


If we are discussing home owners I think incentives are better than force. If we are discussing power plants then since they are govt. monopolies that are created for the good of the users they should be made up of the most productive and environmentally sound products. This can be done simply by mandate.

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 10:43:44 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

I'd like to put panels and a water heating panel on my garage roof (it has the most space facing the proper direction)


You will get the most bang for your buck with the water heating panel. For hot water it will take a smaller footprint than an equal amount of space dedicated to electricity producing panels.
Do you have any yard space close to the house with the appropriate view? Here insulated storage is the way to get more mileage out of your heater.
Best of luck in your enterprise.



(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 10:56:04 AM   
joether


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One of the key concepts from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Obama), was to allow more US Citizens the option to purchase solar power units. To help off set problems in many parts of the nation (and to help create demand in the marketplace). It was largely torn down by conservatives and libertarians, whom, were told by 'big conservative media' that the President was trying to do something evil. If one listened (not just passively heard) the President, they would have understood he was trying to create another 'DOT COM' boon in America. The Internet did not really flourish until Americans started getting into it. That companies were wholly created by the technology. Amazon, Google, and others have their origins during this economic era of technology accessibility to the general public. Solar power technology is accessible to the general public. Therefore, the President was trying to make not just an argument, but a financial way of obtaining solar power. If only to create not just the industry, but more options and ways to use the technology.

Germany has twice the usage of Solar Power (see the graph on the right). Yet the amount of sunlight it gets year round is less than many states in the northern parts of America. There is a total 10 listing of Solar Power for the United States. My state, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, beats down Texas! How does my state, which is geographical smaller and see's less sunlight; beat out a big state where half of it is turning into a desert (do to climate change)?

Solar Power is not to be the 'end all, be all' of power creation. Its just one system of many. So if one system is down, the others can help with 'the load' until its back into operation. That was actually one of the concepts from the 9/11 commission report. Having just one power source/type makes it an effective target for terrorism. Yet having backup after backup system in place, largely reduces the problems if one facility is attacked/destroyed. Reducing fossil fuel and coal usage helps the environment. The technology keeps expanding and going in several new areas. An we as Americans should encourage our countrymen to invest into solar, wind, and hydro systems.

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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 11:14:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

I don't think anyone should be forced to invest in solar, to use solar, or forced to include renewables (not just solar) in their mix of production capabilities.

If we are discussing home owners I think incentives are better than force. If we are discussing power plants then since they are govt. monopolies that are created for the good of the users they should be made up of the most productive and environmentally sound products. This can be done simply by mandate.


I don't believe anyone should be forced to use renewables. That includes both home owners, and power plants.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

I'd like to put panels and a water heating panel on my garage roof (it has the most space facing the proper direction)

You will get the most bang for your buck with the water heating panel. For hot water it will take a smaller footprint than an equal amount of space dedicated to electricity producing panels.
Do you have any yard space close to the house with the appropriate view? Here insulated storage is the way to get more mileage out of your heater.
Best of luck in your enterprise.


Thanks for the tip and well-wishes. There are trees (some mine, and some belonging to neighbors) that shade much of my yard behind the garage (garage faces N/S, but my property is a rectangle with the long side going E/W), but there is less coverage in the area of the garage (due to the roof being higher than the ground). The garage is detached. I would consider a water heating panel on the roof of the house, but would need a much larger area due to the slope of the roof not being in optimal position.

I've considered a wind power generator, but there is a local zoning restriction on those for lot sizes of less than 3 acres (I have 2), and am still not sure if I'd rather go with horizontal axis or vertical axis. I like the idea of VAWTs, but still undecided. Plus, neither solar, nor wind power are high on my list. Geothermal is higher, even. lol


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 11:57:14 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

I don't think anyone should be forced to invest in solar, to use solar, or forced to include renewables (not just solar) in their mix of production capabilities.

If we are discussing home owners I think incentives are better than force. If we are discussing power plants then since they are govt. monopolies that are created for the good of the users they should be made up of the most productive and environmentally sound products. This can be done simply by mandate.


I don't believe anyone should be forced to use renewables. That includes both home owners, and power plants.


By all means, prove in court, that your energy that you received, came directly from renewable power plants. Since energy, whether generated by fossil, nuclear, solar, or even methane gas burning; is STILL energy. The energy from a nuclear system is the same as fro a hydro-electric. Unless it comes solely from a 'renewable' power source; you'll have an impossible time in court. The court would call up one or more physicists to explain how power is generated. An after that '7th grade science and engineering' class; the court would rule against you.

Since if a power company uses several different sources of energy production; you have to prove, in court, that your energy came ONLY from one source. As I state, in physics, energy is energy. There is not 'nuclear energy', 'fossil fuel energy' or 'solar energy'; there is only energy. And its generated in similar ways to other power producing systems.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

I'd like to put panels and a water heating panel on my garage roof (it has the most space facing the proper direction)

You will get the most bang for your buck with the water heating panel. For hot water it will take a smaller footprint than an equal amount of space dedicated to electricity producing panels.
Do you have any yard space close to the house with the appropriate view? Here insulated storage is the way to get more mileage out of your heater.
Best of luck in your enterprise.


Thanks for the tip and well-wishes. There are trees (some mine, and some belonging to neighbors) that shade much of my yard behind the garage (garage faces N/S, but my property is a rectangle with the long side going E/W), but there is less coverage in the area of the garage (due to the roof being higher than the ground). The garage is detached. I would consider a water heating panel on the roof of the house, but would need a much larger area due to the slope of the roof not being in optimal position.

I've considered a wind power generator, but there is a local zoning restriction on those for lot sizes of less than 3 acres (I have 2), and am still not sure if I'd rather go with horizontal axis or vertical axis. I like the idea of VAWTs, but still undecided. Plus, neither solar, nor wind power are high on my list. Geothermal is higher, even. lol


When most of the homes in America were built (pre-WW2 to about 20 years ago); the creation of solar power usage at the individual unit level, was never considered. Nor for most other forms of power generation. It was assumed by all (ok, the grand majority of sane people), that everyone would use power from the power company (whom was regulated). In the past twenty years, things have changed.

So it would take changes to legal books and opinion to make useful changes. You might not be able to make many changes to your house. Have you considered 'co-oping' with neighbors/town to create a solar panel system to which feeds power to each contributing member? Everyone divides up the cost to create and maintain the system; but also generate an equal amount of power. I have heard it done in several communities across the nation. From what I can tell, it does bring neighbors closer together as a community.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: solar power impacts - 8/26/2015 12:07:40 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.solareis.anl.gov/guide/environment/index.cfm

I am divided on solar power.



Ken, there's only one of you. How can you be divided?


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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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