RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/27/2015 9:28:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The number of deaths due to drug poisoning is still more than by gun fire in the US. Drugs are outlawed completely, or extremely controlled by pharmacists, doctors, and responsible patients.

Yet we keep funding the war on drugs, which supports, finances, and contributes to many of the gun deaths each year as well.

Motor vehicles still cause more deaths than guns each year too. And this is before we add in the number of people suffering permanent damage and injury which will require a lifetime of medications.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

If you take the "gun related" deaths caused by the drug money fueled gangs our murder rate is close to that of England.




tweakabelle -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/28/2015 4:05:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Thinkprogress? That's your idea of a reliable source? Heh. Here's what Thinkprogress didn't report...

To try to further speculate on the prevalence of mass shootings in the U.S. and to look beyond firearm ownership rates, Lankford turned to his own and others’ previous research to ask: Is there something about American culture that incubates more mass shooters?

"At least one explanation" about violence in the U.S. has suggested that "crime and deviance occur when there’s an unhealthy gap between people’s dreams and aspirations and their ability to reach those dreams," Lankford explains. In the U.S. in particular, he writes, success and fame are idolized. "Everybody is shaped by culture in a way," says Lankford. "Our culture has people reaching for the stars and slipping and falling probably more often."




It may be that there is a lot of merit in the argument that there is something in American culture that is at least in part related, possibly causally related, to the high numbers of gun related fatalities.

There may well be merit in the view offered in the text you quoted that these high numbers are related to the gap between aspirations and reality but my suspicion is that there is a more fundamental relationship.

The gun occupies an exalted place in US history. It is commonly held to be the reason why the West was 'won' or more accurately why native American opposition to European expansion was unsuccessful. Gun slingers share this exalted position, Every American boy grows up hearing stories about legendary outlaws such as Jesse James. This ambivalence towards gun slingers and outlaws continues through the years right up to our age through figures like Al Capone, Bonnie and Clyde and John Gotti.

There is also a tradition of self reliance and the notion that guns are effective conflict resolution mechanisms, both of which encourage the use of guns to defend oneself and to settle problems as opposed to reliance on a State legal system to have rights enforced and conflicts resolved. There is also the widely held view that an armed population is the only effective guarantee of avoiding government tyranny. The gun occupies a central place in the mythology* of the USA.

I am not in a position to assess how valid (historically accurate) some of these myths are but it is clear that they are accepted in various sectors of the US population. Nor do I know of any scholarly research focussing on this perspective. I would like to see some if anyone has any links.

The relevance of these myths to today's world is questionable. I rather suspect that until Americans have a discussion reassessing the role and place of the gun in their history, culture and society, the current high levels of gun related violence and fatalities will continue.


* I am using the term 'myth' in its anthropological sense which treats the truth value of a myth as irrelevant or more accurately accepts that if enough people believe a myth to be true, then it takes on a truth value purely as a consequence of its popular acceptance and regardless of its objective truth value.




BamaD -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/28/2015 9:43:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Thinkprogress? That's your idea of a reliable source? Heh. Here's what Thinkprogress didn't report...

To try to further speculate on the prevalence of mass shootings in the U.S. and to look beyond firearm ownership rates, Lankford turned to his own and others’ previous research to ask: Is there something about American culture that incubates more mass shooters?

"At least one explanation" about violence in the U.S. has suggested that "crime and deviance occur when there’s an unhealthy gap between people’s dreams and aspirations and their ability to reach those dreams," Lankford explains. In the U.S. in particular, he writes, success and fame are idolized. "Everybody is shaped by culture in a way," says Lankford. "Our culture has people reaching for the stars and slipping and falling probably more often."




It may be that there is a lot of merit in the argument that there is something in American culture that is at least in part related, possibly causally related, to the high numbers of gun related fatalities.

There may well be merit in the view offered in the text you quoted that these high numbers are related to the gap between aspirations and reality but my suspicion is that there is a more fundamental relationship.

The gun occupies an exalted place in US history. It is commonly held to be the reason why the West was 'won' or more accurately why native American opposition to European expansion was unsuccessful. Gun slingers share this exalted position, Every American boy grows up hearing stories about legendary outlaws such as Jesse James. This ambivalence towards gun slingers and outlaws continues through the years right up to our age through figures like Al Capone, Bonnie and Clyde and John Gotti.

There is also a tradition of self reliance and the notion that guns are effective conflict resolution mechanisms, both of which encourage the use of guns to defend oneself and to settle problems as opposed to reliance on a State legal system to have rights enforced and conflicts resolved. There is also the widely held view that an armed population is the only effective guarantee of avoiding government tyranny. The gun occupies a central place in the mythology* of the USA.

I am not in a position to assess how valid (historically accurate) some of these myths are but it is clear that they are accepted in various sectors of the US population. Nor do I know of any scholarly research focussing on this perspective. I would like to see some if anyone has any links.

The relevance of these myths to today's world is questionable. I rather suspect that until Americans have a discussion reassessing the role and place of the gun in their history, culture and society, the current high levels of gun related violence and fatalities will continue.


* I am using the term 'myth' in its anthropological sense which treats the truth value of a myth as irrelevant or more accurately accepts that if enough people believe a myth to be true, then it takes on a truth value purely as a consequence of its popular acceptance and regardless of its objective truth value.

The obsession you and Europeans have with the "American gun culture" ignores that American society is as different from European society as Mexican society is from American. To the north Canada has tight gun control and a low crime rate.
To the south Mexico has even tighter gun control and an astronomical crime rate. In the middle the U S has less gun control (but more than foreigners seem to think we do) and a crime rate much closer to Canada than Mexico.
This seems to point to the fact that it is not the guns so much as the societies.
You, as a group also ignore that the US has a higher murder rate with knives than England has total. Again pointing to the fact that it isn't guns.




Politesub53 -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/28/2015 4:13:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

If you take the "gun related" deaths caused by the drug money fueled gangs our murder rate is close to that of England.


Is it bollocks.




Lucylastic -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 1:42:21 AM)

He tried to float that particular turd before. No cite, no site, just wanting to blame it on gangs n drug, Yanno, the non white merrycans.
Ignoring the other deadly "accidents"




Sanity -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 4:37:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

He tried to float that particular turd before. No cite, no site, just wanting to blame it on gangs n drug, Yanno, the non white merrycans.
Ignoring the other deadly "accidents"



He doesn't need a cite because he is a citizen in the location you British know-it-alls think you are lecturing him about

You don't live here and you don't have the first fucking clue

Even if your arrogance and stupidity swears otherwise




Lucylastic -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 4:44:43 AM)

following me around sanity>?
sad little troll
edited to fix typo




BamaD -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 4:46:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

He tried to float that particular turd before. No cite, no site, just wanting to blame it on gangs n drug, Yanno, the non white merrycans.
Ignoring the other deadly "accidents"



He doesn't need a cite because he is a citizen in the location you British know-it-alls think you are lecturing him about

You don't live here and you don't have the first fucking clue

Even if your arrogance and stupidity swears otherwise

I guess they are too ignorant to know that not all gangbangers are non-white.
And for such experts they don't know that all the crime statistics show that the vast majority of crime is in the same places overrun by gangs and drugs.
My question would be how could anyone think that wouldn't be the case.
They have never explained why, if guns are the cause of crime, with twice as many legally owned guns in America as there was 20 years ago there is only half as much crime.
Anyone as big as they are on stats would have to know this.
The doubling of guns is not the sole reason for the crime drop, maybe not even the main reason. But if they had a leg to stand on it would have caused an increase in crime.




Lucylastic -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 5:04:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD



I guess they are too ignorant to know that not all gangbangers are non-white.
And for such experts they don't know that all the crime statistics show that the vast majority of crime is in the same places overrun by gangs and drugs.
My question would be how could anyone think that wouldn't be the case.




Ive presented the evidence before Bama , the fact that you have me on hide, just means you missed it. And you looked like a damn fool at the time...as normal.
Plus with that hells angels shooting it was certainly evident that gang members arent all non white, derp. even for the dumbest of americans.

You think the UK or Canada doesnt have gangs? white and otherwise? thats dumb of you.
If we pull out gang murder/drug related gun murders in the UK and or Canada, it would almost decimate their murder figures.
FACT.

Now how many non drug/gang deaths by guns happened in the USA say any year?





JVoV -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 6:53:31 AM)

Personally, I think we as a nation give far too much attention to the lunatics that perpetrate these heinous crimes, which sadly adds fuel to the next one.




BamaD -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 7:11:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Personally, I think we as a nation give far too much attention to the lunatics that perpetrate these heinous crimes, which sadly adds fuel to the next one.

You are correct. These people are generally losers who see something like this as their only path to fame. The press should adopt a policy of not printing (broadcasting) their names.




Lucylastic -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 8:08:29 AM)

Yet giving recognition to the victims is called playing politics with a tragedy.




Sanity -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 8:20:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

following me around sanity>?
sad little troll
edited to fix typo


Try not to flatter yourself too much, hag




Sanity -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 8:22:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I guess they are too ignorant to know that not all gangbangers are non-white.
And for such experts they don't know that all the crime statistics show that the vast majority of crime is in the same places overrun by gangs and drugs.
My question would be how could anyone think that wouldn't be the case.
They have never explained why, if guns are the cause of crime, with twice as many legally owned guns in America as there was 20 years ago there is only half as much crime.
Anyone as big as they are on stats would have to know this.
The doubling of guns is not the sole reason for the crime drop, maybe not even the main reason. But if they had a leg to stand on it would have caused an increase in crime.


What are you talking about

They claim that Hispanics are white, anyway

Right




Lucylastic -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 8:27:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

following me around sanity>?
sad little troll
edited to fix typo


Try not to flatter yourself too much, hag

hahahahah and again:) bless




Lucylastic -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 8:29:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

following me around sanity>?
sad little troll
edited to fix typo


Try not to flatter yourself too much, hag

fem hominem and strawman...
bless




MercTech -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 9:09:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

^^^ Having a gun in the house is just plain dangerous.


As is having volatile fuels for the lawn mower. As is having cleaning supplies that can be made to explode. As is having sharp edges that could be fatal if you take a fall.

We live in a dangerous world no matter how much nanny state advocates want to give the appearance of protecting people. No one protects you but yourself after you are adult.




Lucylastic -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 9:23:51 AM)

3rd grader took gun to school....shot his class mate... thursday?




Sanity -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 10:36:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

3rd grader took gun to school....shot his class mate... thursday?


The kid who was accidentally shot was treated and released, and is now home resting comfortably

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/georgia-elementary-student-accidentally-shot-school-33310379

Not quite the horror story leftists like to use to try to deny people of their rights but anything in a pinch eh




BamaD -> RE: TV news reporter and cameraman shot and killed. (8/29/2015 10:54:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

3rd grader took gun to school....shot his class mate... thursday?


The kid who was accidentally shot was treated and released, and is now home resting comfortably

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/georgia-elementary-student-accidentally-shot-school-33310379

Not quite the horror story leftists like to use to try to deny people of their rights but anything in a pinch eh

Three cops were murdered this week (on duty) but apparently that is no big deal.
One in a traffic stop, one while pumping gas (shot in the back, going to be hard to blame that one on the cop) and one was shot by his cousin who he was trying to arrest for knifing a woman (killed her).




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