RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 4:28:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
How then do you redress the extortion of those peoples assets?

No idea what issue you are talking about, citation please.


How can you be part of this discussion and not know what I am talking about?
Have you heard of fergustan?
Have you heard that a cop in that town shot a black man to death?
Have you heard that the prosecutor did not indict the shooter?
Have you heard that the doj investigated this?
Have you heard that the doj issued two reports concerning this incident?
If you cannot answer yes to the above questions why are you posting on this thread?
If you can answer yes to the above then simply read the doj reports to bring yourself up to speed on this discussion. That way you will not appear as an ignorant troll asking for information that would be necessary to even post on this thread.



Greta75 -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 4:32:42 AM)

quote:


]The history books are pretty clear that the white ones were given preferential treatment for several hundred years. How do you deal with that? How do you address hundreds years of extortion? How do you make those who were deprived equal?


Actually I should ask you that. What else do you want to do to compensate enough? That's just like us Chinese people still hating the Japanese for life for enslaving our women and making them into whores and murdering all the children of these women infront of their eyes in the most brutal way possible to kill a baby. Just to psychologically destroy them as well, and prepare them for slavery.

We don't, we move on and those were the deeds of evil Japanese people in the past.

Our women are no longer sex slaves. The blacks are no longer slaves. They are free to build their own destiny.

I got to admit if you ask my grandma who was around when the Japanese were most brutal, she is racist towards all Japanese people and hates them like hell, but you know, that's her generation. It doesn't make any sense to keep harping on the past to new generation of peaceful Japanese. Like harping on the past to new generation of peaceful white Americans.

I bet not one white American in this forum ever wants slavery in the US again and I believe all of them want the black community to get the help they need to live meaningful lives.

So it's basically a ruckus caused by some bad people who doesn't represent what the majority wants.

But things like "black lives matter" is blowing up the issue and practically painting all with the same brush.



Greta75 -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 4:49:09 AM)

To thompsonx

I have heard of the series of rukus of any American cop shooting in self-defense of any black person that gets overblown into such a big race issue yes.

But the problem lies with, two side of the story.

So the problem is, is the lack of faith in your justice system to prosecute the cop IF he indeed was in the wrong.

But don't make this like a wide spread race issue.

If there was one evil cop, it's just that one evil cop. Jail him!

But if evidence points to him not being at fault, and people are mad just because he shot a black person, this is just fanning the flames intentionally to create more racial tension. NOT productive in improving race relations.



thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 6:03:36 AM)

quote:

Black Lives Matter is about All Lives Matter.


No it is not. It is about cops killing black people...please pay attention.


quote:

That's the whole concept of BLM. I am assuming they aren't asking for super duper special treatment, but to be treated equally. So what's the point of highlighting the word "Black"?


Perhaps because black people are not treated equally.



Wayward5oul -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 6:04:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
If there was one evil cop, it's just that one evil cop. Jail him!


So that would be a 'no' on reading the DOJ reports. Nor reading about them, as well?



thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 6:06:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Has that dream come true yet?

American President is black. And his President by popular vote as well.


In amerika the president is appointed by the electoral college.

quote:

So I would say, it's already there.


Then you would be speaking from a position of ignorance

quote:

There will always be minorities who will always be racist,


It is the majority not the minority who are the racists.





thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 6:12:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Thompson, are you saying ALL cops are racist towards the blacks or something?


I am sure there are some who are not.

quote:

I mean, the fight against corrupted law enforcement is still work in progress, but I believe most cops are colour blind.


There would be a very easy way to disabuse yourself of this ignorance. Come to amerika,buy a book called "black like me" follow the directions.

quote:

And the baddies are being punished when found outot according to the doj report


Obviously you have not read the doj report, because it did not say that.

quote:

Technically, there isn't like any kind of epidemic, AS IF there is a specifically black persecution or something by the police department.


Why then are blacks represented in prison far beyond their demographic in the general population?



Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 8:56:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Technically, there isn't like any kind of epidemic, AS IF there is a specifically black persecution or something by the police department.

Why then are blacks represented in prison far beyond their demographic in the general population?

Do you imagine that to be a rhetorical question? Higher incarceration rates in data disaggregated by race do not by themselves support a conclusion that the disparity observed is due to race. There are myriad factors in play, and race could be acting as an overloaded proxy for multiple other variables. Bald political claims that disparities in incarceration rates implicate a racist justice system, a racist society, a racist God and whatever else, are anti-scientific tripe.

K.



Lucylastic -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 9:06:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


There are myriad factors at play, and race can be acting as an overloaded proxy for multiple other variables; poverty, unemployment, lack of opportunity, etc.
K.

Yet so few on the right agree with that....
not just since obama took office but as far back I can remember there was rampant racism, and unemployment, poverty, lack of opportunity. generational poverty, no matter what fucking colour, is devastating. That people are angry with the situation now, with more information available, realising there is corruption and fucking over of their abilities to have a LIVING wage, that the brutality of the police IS worse than anyone wants or expects SHOULD make people angry.
Look at right wingers that blame the poor, the sick, the minorities, women, immigrants. People who have never had the opportunity to fight back. Now they are.
Of course the radicals on all sides make it worse. Some people are pissed enough to get violent.
SUPRISE.



Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 9:24:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

There are myriad factors at play, and race can be acting as an overloaded proxy for multiple other variables; poverty, unemployment, lack of opportunity, etc.

Yet so few on the right agree with that....

You caught me between edits on that one. The list was getting longer and longer, and I finally just dropped it from the sentence. But thanks!

K.




cloudboy -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 9:46:37 AM)


But all lives haven't mattered. Not by a long shot.



thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 10:15:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Why then are blacks represented in prison far beyond their demographic in the general population?

Do you imagine that to be a rhetorical question?


no


quote:

Higher incarceration rates in data disaggregated by race do not by themselves support a conclusion that the disparity observed is due to race.



Can the conclusion that the disparity is due to race be shown without the evidence of higher incarceration rates for blacks?

quote:

There are myriad factors in play,


What are these factors?


quote:

and race could be acting as an overloaded proxy for multiple other variables.


Could you list these multiple other variables for us?


quote:

Bald political claims that disparities in incarceration rates implicate a racist justice system, a racist society, a racist God and whatever else, are anti-scientific tripe.

K.


Until substantive evidence is produced to the contrary that will have to remain simply your opinion.





stef -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 10:29:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Double standards here. If someone held a "White Lives Matters" something, I am sure you wouldn't be calling people idiots who see that as racist.

No double standard at all. If black cops were killing unarmed white people at the rate that white cops are killing unarmed black people, then that would certainly be the case. You let me know when that starts happening and we'll chat about it.

quote:

Black Lives Matter is about All Lives Matter. That's the whole concept of BLM. I am assuming they aren't asking for super duper special treatment, but to be treated equally. So what's the point of highlighting the word "Black"?

Did you hear that *WHOOOOSH* again?



Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 10:52:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Bald political claims that disparities in incarceration rates implicate a racist justice system, a racist society, a racist God and whatever else, are anti-scientific tripe.

Until substantive evidence is produced to the contrary that will have to remain simply your opinion.

Evidence to the contrary isn't required when a claim has no evidence supporting it in the first place.

K.





thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 11:01:18 AM)

quote:

Evidence to the contrary isn't required when a claim has no evidence supporting it in the first place.


The evidence is prima facia and stands as fact until rebuted.



Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 11:11:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Evidence to the contrary isn't required when a claim has no evidence supporting it in the first place.

The evidence is prima facia and stands as fact until rebuted.

Disparities in data disaggregated by race are not evidence of disparities due to race.

K.




kdsub -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 11:12:19 AM)

The black man, a criminal who had just robbed a storekeeper , attacked the police officer and tried to take his gun… then charged the cop and ignored the command to stop…and viable witnesses testified to these facts…. The DOJ report exonerated the officer and found no wrong doing.

The prosecutor presented the case to a grand jury … which was reviewed by a judiciary and found to have been presented in a fair and unbiased manner and the result matched the DOJ investigation.

The DOJ did find fault…not in the Brown case…but in its dealings with the African American population and with the court system that was using fines to pad the city budget.

I thought you may want to know the real story.



thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 11:44:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The black man, a criminal who had just robbed a storekeeper , attacked the police officer and tried to take his gun… then charged the cop and ignored the command to stop…and viable witnesses testified to these facts…. The DOJ report exonerated the officer and found no wrong doing.


That is not true. The doj report did not exonerate the shooter. They found that he was unindictable those are not the same thing.

quote:

The prosecutor presented the case to a grand jury … which was reviewed by a judiciary and found to have been presented in a fair and unbiased manner and the result matched the DOJ investigation.


That is not what the doj report said.

quote:

The DOJ did find fault…not in the Brown case…



That is not what the doj report said




quote:

but in its dealings with the African American population and with the court system that was using fines to pad the city budget.


Actually the doj report said that the cops and the courts and the city council were criminals who were arresting, incarcerating and fining black people for things that were not against the law. That is somewhat diffeerent than the story you tell.

quote:

I thought you may want to know the real story.


I should think that if someone wanted to know the real story they would read the doj report and not depend on someone elses opinion of it.



thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 11:46:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

Evidence to the contrary isn't required when a claim has no evidence supporting it in the first place.

The evidence is prima facia and stands as fact until rebuted.

Disparities in data disaggregated by race are not evidence of disparities due to race.

K.




Until proof of contrary interpretation is submitted that would remain simply your opinion. You have mentioned that there are other causes for the over representation of blacks in prison but so far have not felt it important enough to share.



Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/17/2015 11:56:48 AM)


Wash, rinse, repeat:
    Until substantive evidence is produced to the contrary that will have to remain simply your opinion.
    Evidence to the contrary isn't required when a claim has no evidence supporting it in the first place.
    The evidence is prima facia and stands as fact until rebuted.
    Disparities in data disaggregated by race are not evidence of disparities due to race.
    Until proof of contrary interpretation is submitted that would remain simply your opinion.
    Evidence to the contrary isn't required when a claim has no evidence supporting it in the first place.
    The evidence is prima facia and stands as fact until rebuted.
    Disparities in data disaggregated by race are not evidence of disparities due to race.
    Until proof of contrary interpretation is submitted that would remain simply your opinion.
K.




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