RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/19/2015 7:00:25 PM)

quote:

Yes but I was showing how stupid his argument is.


Looked to me like you were opening your mouth to change feet.

quote:

The real reason for the disparity in inprisonmnet is the disparity in commission of crimes. 


Are you saying that blacks are over represented  in prison because they commit more crimes...that they are inherently criminal...that it is in their dna? 




Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/19/2015 8:22:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Are you saying that blacks are over represented  in prison because they commit more crimes...that they are inherently criminal...that it is in their dna?

Ohferfucksake... somewhere a bridge is missing it's troll.

K.







BamaD -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/19/2015 9:40:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Are you saying that blacks are over represented  in prison because they commit more crimes...that they are inherently criminal...that it is in their dna?

Ohferfucksake... somewhere a bridge is missing it's troll.

K.





Didn't I have this same argument with FD yesterday because he didn't like the facts.




Greta75 -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/19/2015 10:39:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
In amerika the president is appointed by the electoral college.


That's exactly why I say he won popular vote as well. Which clearly means majority of Americans are not racist. I say this because Bush second term lost the popular vote despite being voted in.

quote:

It is the majority not the minority who are the racists.


Read above!




Greta75 -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/19/2015 10:42:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Why then are blacks represented in prison far beyond their demographic in the general population?

In Singapore, the race that most in prison are the Malays. They are just the least ambitious race, so they tend to fair less well economically. But they are also the only race with the most welfare. The only race who gets marry 4 wives legally, the only race that gets free education, just by default of their colour.

The free education thing is recognising that among all the races, that is the race that is struggling the most to move up. So some kind of help to give them no excuse not to get an education.

But yet, they are still the ones ending up in prison. And I say, this is simply because, they happen to be of the lower income sector. That's all there is to it.

If any other races, like Indians formed majority of the lower income sector, then the prisons will be filled with Indians too. Back in Singapore past when majority of the chinese were uneducated and poor, they form the majority in prison too. British were ruling us then, but we certainly didn't cry that British were intentionally throwing chinese people into jail.


Because poor environment leads to temptation to do more crimes. I wouldn't say it's a colour thing or police intentionally throw a certain colour person in jail intentionally.




Greta75 -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/19/2015 10:47:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The black man, a criminal who had just robbed a storekeeper , attacked the police officer and tried to take his gun… then charged the cop and ignored the command to stop…and viable witnesses testified to these facts…. The DOJ report exonerated the officer and found no wrong doing.

The prosecutor presented the case to a grand jury … which was reviewed by a judiciary and found to have been presented in a fair and unbiased manner and the result matched the DOJ investigation.

The DOJ did find fault…not in the Brown case…but in its dealings with the African American population and with the court system that was using fines to pad the city budget.

I thought you may want to know the real story.


I'm quoting KD, but am responding to Thompson and wayward. Those who keep mentioning the DOJ report. You know this is the big problem. Same Report, two conclusions. But I believe that, for gawd's sake. There is a black President at helm. IF a police wrongfully murdered a black dude, I bet Obama would be the first one, not letting it go, and going after it strongly until that police officer got convicted.

I do not believe a police will be released if he committed intentional murder of a black person.





Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/19/2015 11:15:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Disparities in data disaggregated by race are not evidence of disparities due to race. In social data disaggregated by race, race is an unavoidably overloaded proxy for multiple other factors. Until you identify them and control for them, you cannot say how much of the disparity (if any at all) is due to race qua race.

You are the one who claims that these factors affect the incarceration rate yet you fail to demonstrate any link. Should you do so it might make your opinions more substantial. Continuing to repeat your mantra would be prima facia evidence that you have no evidence to support your opinions.

We've been around this tree before, and you claimed that those factors were due to race too. But to reduce a complex problem to a single dimension like race, and equate racial disparity with racism, is just playing racial politics. Get yourself a real hobby.

K.




bounty44 -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 4:12:23 AM)

this will go over really well with liberals:

https://americanfreepress.net/obama-policies-leave-blacks-in-worse-plight/

"Obama Policies Leave Blacks in Worse Plight"

quote:

On October 11, 2013, Tavis Smiley, a well-known PBS commentator, said, when he was asked by Fox News talking head Sean Hannity: “Are black Americans better off five years into the Obama presidency?” “Let me answer your question very forthrightly,” Smiley said. “No, they are not. The data is going to indicate sadly that when the Obama administration is over, black people will have lost ground in every single leading economic indicator category. On that regard, the president ought to be held responsible.”


quote:

Of course, many black leaders and Democratic pundits blame this phenomenon on so-called “white privilege” and racism.


quote:

On February 6, this reporter spoke with Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson, founder of the Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny (BOND).

When asked why so many blacks were in this dire situation, Peterson responded, “More black babies are being born out of wedlock. When you have 74% of black children born to single mothers, your chances of doing well economically are very limited.”...

“Obama wants blacks dependent and reliant on Democrats so that his party stays in control,” Peterson continued. “If that means keeping blacks down for another 100 years, they’ll do it. They only care about power.”...

Speaking with a courage that’s rare in today’s politically-correct society, Peterson added: “Black leaders don’t want their people free. They want them demoralized, brainwashed and dumbed-down on the Democratic Party’s plantation where there’s free housing, food and healthcare. Relying on the government never brought anyone out of poverty.”...

Offering a historical perspective on how this trend transpired, Peterson added, “The civil rights movement brought in big government and told black America that they lived in a racist society. They were supposed to believe that the white man held them back because of slavery. So, blacks were given handouts. Since they couldn’t let black men remain in the home, government became their daddy. Plus, more children born out of wedlock equates to more government care. This notion became engrained in their heads: babies equal food stamps and welfare. It’s deeply rooted in the black mindset. Today, blacks believe more in government than they do in themselves.”...

“For the past 24 years we’ve tried to rebuild the black family through prayer, learning trades, teaching independence, and loving your country instead of hating it,” he said. “But corrupt black leadership, including Barack Obama, doesn’t want that. They prefer that black women look to the government instead of their own families.”...


quote:

Lloyd Marcus, chairman of the Conservative Campaign Committee, concurs. Since Marcus, a black man, has been welcomed to speak at over 400 tea party (oh no comrade bird brain, the dreaded tea party!) rallies, this newspaper decided to contact him on February 6, to discuss problems inherent within the black community....

“Blacks continually keep shooting themselves in the foot by sleeping with the enemy, namely Democrats and liberals,” he said. “These two institutions, along with the Congressional Black Caucus and liberal media, perpetually lower standards for blacks.”...

Marcus also cited the lack of two-parent households as a major factor facing blacks.

Data proves ["shows" is a better word] that black kids in fatherless households are more prone to doing drugs, joining gangs or ending up in prison,” he said. “Before LBJ’s so-called ‘War on Poverty,’ blacks were actually moving forward. But government intrusion destroyed the black family by saying, ‘We’ll be your daddy.’”








Greta75 -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 4:36:31 AM)

What is interesting is about that article is, it confirms what my white American friend is saying. I just didn't expect it to be like 74% of black people who grew up without their fathers, he says they do not have the proper role model and that makes it very difficult. It's a difficult situation, with added gangs and drugs.

My friend is involve in a local community where it's privately funded to help African American kids out of a life of crime. They sponsor their education and school buses to go to a school further away from their area, so they can attend a better school with better influence, and hopefully get out of the cycle. This is their idea of how to help, whether it will save some lives and help some lives, I don't know, as they still go back to their bad neighbourhood. I am sure there are many others like my friend working towards wanting the black community to get better, and trying to do something constructive to help the problem of too many black people ending up in jail.

People like Thompson, just keeps screaming racism, not helpful.





thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 5:29:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Are you saying that blacks are over represented  in prison because they commit more crimes...that they are inherently criminal...that it is in their dna?

Ohferfucksake... somewhere a bridge is missing it's troll.

K.






Ask a fool to explane himself and get called a troll???




thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 5:30:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Are you saying that blacks are over represented  in prison because they commit more crimes...that they are inherently criminal...that it is in their dna?

Ohferfucksake... somewhere a bridge is missing it's troll.

K.





Didn't I have this same argument with FD yesterday because he didn't like the facts.


So far I have only seen opinion from you. When were you planning on bringing some facts to the discussion?




thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 5:39:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
In amerika the president is appointed by the electoral college.


That's exactly why I say he won popular vote as well. Which clearly means majority of Americans are not racist.


Amerika has about 330 million people. In the last presidential election less than 130 million cast their votes. Only a little over half voted for the current president  63/330=does not a majority make. 




thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 5:45:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

I'm quoting KD, but am responding to Thompson and wayward. Those who keep mentioning the DOJ report. You know this is the big problem. Same Report, two conclusions.


Had you actually read the doj reports you would not try to stuff both feet  in your mouth at the same time. Only a fool would form an opinon about a document they had not read.
quote:


I do not believe a police will be released if he committed intentional murder of a black person.



You may believe any idiotic shit you choose. Do a little google searching and disabuse yourself of your ignorance.




thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 5:55:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

We've been around this tree before, and you claimed that those factors were due to race too.


Blacks are arrested and incarcerated at a rate much higher than their demographic in the general population. Our society has historically held this racist attitude for about 400 years. Nearly 4000 black people executed extra legally in about the last hundred years or so with the full knowledge and cooperation of the state. President roosevelt in his presidential inauguration address excorriated black americans for being rapist of white women and admonished those who would punish them that they must be careful not to let their vengence spill over onto white people.
It is from a history such as this you now wish to proffer some other reason why blacks are overrepresented in our prisons yet fail over and over to produce any sort of revelant data to support your claim.
I am here and anytime you wish to discuss this issue please feel free to post up your evidence.

 
 
 
 
quote:

 But to reduce a complex problem to a single dimension like race, and equate racial disparity with racism, is just playing racial politics. Get yourself a real hobby.

K.



While you claim this is a complex problem you fail to substantiate your opinion with any data. Why is that?




Kirata -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 8:19:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Blacks are arrested and incarcerated at a rate much higher than their demographic in the general population. Our society has historically held this racist attitude for about 400 years.

Except for the fact that disparities in racially disaggregated data are not prima facie evidence of racism, which puts you in the position of a lunatic raving that God looks like Kermit the Frog and challenging anyone to produce evidence to the contrary.

K.






thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 10:37:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Blacks are arrested and incarcerated at a rate much higher than their demographic in the general population. Our society has historically held this racist attitude for about 400 years.

Except for the fact that disparities in racially disaggregated data are not prima facie evidence of racism,


What is it then? About 4000 black people hanging from trees is prima facia evidence of what? If it is not racism what is it? You have mentioned poverty as a posibility yet you offer no evidence to support that or any of the other "what if" proffered.
 
 
 
 
quote:

 which puts you in the position of a lunatic raving that God looks like Kermit the Frog and challenging anyone to produce evidence to the contrary.

K.

That would be your opinion valid only to yourself. I have not spoken of kermit or any other fantasies. I have mentioned the facts and have asked you or anyone else to explane some other reason besides racism. In return what you have done is to  call me names and accuse me of things I have not said. What you have not done is provide any evidence to support your opinions.





Wayward5oul -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 12:14:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I'm quoting KD, but am responding to Thompson and wayward. Those who keep mentioning the DOJ report. You know this is the big problem. Same Report, two conclusions.


But not two conflicting conclusions...the report was twofold, an examination of 1) an incident and 2) a system. A conclusion was given regarding the events surrounding one event, and a second conclusion regarding a study of the larger judicial system.

So again, have you even read the report? How is the fact that it drew two conclusions a problem? Please explain.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
But I believe that, for gawd's sake. There is a black President at helm. IF a police wrongfully murdered a black dude,


This was a case where a cop was not convicted of what many perceived to be the wrongful murder of a black dude

quote:

I bet Obama would be the first one, not letting it go, and going after it strongly until that police officer got convicted.


so the DOJ stepped in and investigated it themselves.

Or do you believe that the DOJ routinely involves itself in local affairs? Does it just up and investigate anything it wants to across the nation, without cause, just because they have nothing better to do?









thompsonx -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 1:35:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

What is interesting is about that article is, it confirms what my white American friend is saying. I just didn't expect it to be like 74% of black people who grew up without their fathers, he says they do not have the proper role model and that makes it very difficult. It's a difficult situation, with added gangs and drugs.


Did you know that there are fewer unwed single mothers than there are divorced/widowed single mothers?  

quote:

My friend is involve in a local community where it's privately funded to help African American kids out of a life of crime. They sponsor their education and school buses to go to a school further away from their area, so they can attend a better school with better influence, and hopefully get out of the cycle.




Please tell us the name of this philantropic organization that is doing so much good.

quote:

 This is their idea of how to help, whether it will save some lives and help some lives, I don't know, as they still go back to their bad neighbourhood. I am sure there are many others like my friend working towards wanting the black community to get better, and trying to do something constructive to help the problem of too many black people ending up in jail.


Would it not be cheaper to upgrade the schools so that everyone got a good education and not just the few getting bussed?


quote:

People like Thompson, just keeps screaming racism, not helpful.


We all appreciate your input...no matter how ignorant,unsubstantiated or ill formed it may be.  I on the other hand live here. That coupled with being old gives me a special perspective on my country and "race relations" there in.  I have lived with segregation and racism, you have not. You have no frame of reference for it. Wouldn't it behove your post for you to have done a bit of research on the history of "race relationship" rather than rely on anectdotal "evidence" from your "friend"?




BamaD -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 1:49:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
In amerika the president is appointed by the electoral college.


That's exactly why I say he won popular vote as well. Which clearly means majority of Americans are not racist. I say this because Bush second term lost the popular vote despite being voted in.

quote:

It is the majority not the minority who are the racists.


Read above!

Bush first term.




BamaD -> RE: On the All Lives Matter Issue (9/20/2015 6:04:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Disparities in data disaggregated by race are not evidence of disparities due to race. In social data disaggregated by race, race is an unavoidably overloaded proxy for multiple other factors. Until you identify them and control for them, you cannot say how much of the disparity (if any at all) is due to race qua race.

You are the one who claims that these factors affect the incarceration rate yet you fail to demonstrate any link. Should you do so it might make your opinions more substantial. Continuing to repeat your mantra would be prima facia evidence that you have no evidence to support your opinions.

We've been around this tree before, and you claimed that those factors were due to race too. But to reduce a complex problem to a single dimension like race, and equate racial disparity with racism, is just playing racial politics. Get yourself a real hobby.

K.


He doesn't seem to understand that equal oppotunity does not mean equal outcome.




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