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RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 4:45:58 PM   
BamaD


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Wriggling again.
Perhaps you need reminding that your original statement specifically brought up the fact that the 20% were black.
"where the unemployment rate among young blacks is upwards of 20%"
That makes the statement racist.


No that means that I am blaming it on the high unemployment.
That is only racist if you are determined to see racism in everything.
A Most crime is in the inner city undisputable fact
B The unemployment among young blacks is in the area of 20% and up this too is an undisputable fact
C The vast majority in the inner city is black again a simple fact
D People without hope go to crime more readily than those who can see another way out. fact
E Not once did I say that blacks are more to prone to crime than anyone else.
F You, in your hypersensitive politically correct mindset, injected racism where it had no part.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 4:46:06 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Now that you can kill with a car, a knife, and a baseball bat, what the fuck you need a gun for?


The implication being that you wouldn't want a gun unless your intent was to kill.

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RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 4:49:48 PM   
BamaD


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Tell that to the 2million+ Syrian refugees in Jordan where the hopeless and jobless are running at about 98%.
Do you see a high crime rate there??
No. They forage, beg, and manage to survive; they don't turn to crime.
Some very few manage to get very low paid work - they are the lucky few.


Apples and oranges, do they see a drug dealer on every corner being the only person in the hood with money, get real.
Also you had to disconnect what I said into multiple part so you could pretend that the individual segments were saying something that no reasonable person would see in it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 5:30:21 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Wriggling again.
Perhaps you need reminding that your original statement specifically brought up the fact that the 20% were black.
"where the unemployment rate among young blacks is upwards of 20%"
That makes the statement racist.


No that means that I am blaming it on the high unemployment.
That is only racist if you are determined to see racism in everything.
A Most crime is in the inner city undisputable fact
B The unemployment among young blacks is in the area of 20% and up this too is an undisputable fact
C The vast majority in the inner city is black again a simple fact
D People without hope go to crime more readily than those who can see another way out. fact
E Not once did I say that blacks are more to prone to crime than anyone else.
F You, in your hypersensitive politically correct mindset, injected racism where it had no part.


Most other sensible people would have just quoted the unemployment stats and NOT included the fact that you were referring specifically to blacks.
I'm not disputing the numbers - just the way you expressed it in your post.
A and B may be true.
C isn't true for every town and city across the USA.
D could only be true IF the only way out was crime. I would bet that the people stuck in Jordan (where drugs are more prolific) have far less options than anyone in the USA. I think this is pure supposition and speculation than actual fact.
E is irrelevant because nobody said you did.
F is false because it was you who injected the race statement, not me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Tell that to the 2million+ Syrian refugees in Jordan where the hopeless and jobless are running at about 98%.
Do you see a high crime rate there??
No. They forage, beg, and manage to survive; they don't turn to crime.
Some very few manage to get very low paid work - they are the lucky few.


Apples and oranges, do they see a drug dealer on every corner being the only person in the hood with money, get real.
Also you had to disconnect what I said into multiple part so you could pretend that the individual segments were saying something that no reasonable person would see in it.

Nope. pretty much identical to the slur you were putting onto hopeless and jobless people.
In the example I gave, they didn't resort to crime and therefore didn't have drug dealers on every corner.
This is the point I'm making.... you slur and besmirch people and then have to qualify it when pulled up on it.
It's apples and apples - just a different country where the situation is the same.

I don't pretend anything of the sort - that would be your spin on it.
I split it up so it wasn't a wall of text to make it easier for people to read especially as you seem unable to use the quotes.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 5:52:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Wriggling again.
Perhaps you need reminding that your original statement specifically brought up the fact that the 20% were black.
"where the unemployment rate among young blacks is upwards of 20%"
That makes the statement racist.


No that means that I am blaming it on the high unemployment.
That is only racist if you are determined to see racism in everything.
A Most crime is in the inner city undisputable fact
B The unemployment among young blacks is in the area of 20% and up this too is an undisputable fact
C The vast majority in the inner city is black again a simple fact
D People without hope go to crime more readily than those who can see another way out. fact
E Not once did I say that blacks are more to prone to crime than anyone else.
F You, in your hypersensitive politically correct mindset, injected racism where it had no part.


Most other sensible people would have just quoted the unemployment stats and NOT included the fact that you were referring specifically to blacks.
I'm not disputing the numbers - just the way you expressed it in your post.
A and B may be true.
C isn't true for every town and city across the USA.
D could only be true IF the only way out was crime. I would bet that the people stuck in Jordan (where drugs are more prolific) have far less options than anyone in the USA. I think this is pure supposition and speculation than actual fact.
E is irrelevant because nobody said you did.
F is false because it was you who injected the race statement, not me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Tell that to the 2million+ Syrian refugees in Jordan where the hopeless and jobless are running at about 98%.
Do you see a high crime rate there??
No. They forage, beg, and manage to survive; they don't turn to crime.
Some very few manage to get very low paid work - they are the lucky few.


Apples and oranges, do they see a drug dealer on every corner being the only person in the hood with money, get real.
Also you had to disconnect what I said into multiple part so you could pretend that the individual segments were saying something that no reasonable person would see in it.

Nope. pretty much identical to the slur you were putting onto hopeless and jobless people.
In the example I gave, they didn't resort to crime and therefore didn't have drug dealers on every corner.
This is the point I'm making.... you slur and besmirch people and then have to qualify it when pulled up on it.
It's apples and apples - just a different country where the situation is the same.

I don't pretend anything of the sort - that would be your spin on it.
I split it up so it wasn't a wall of text to make it easier for people to read especially as you seem unable to use the quotes.


Where you as knowledgable as you think you are you would be aware that the unemployment rate for blacks is much higher than for whites. You would also know that it hits young blacks particularly hard. That is the reason that I mentioned the race in relation to blacks, that is their unemployment rate.

I didn't slur anyone, I stated facts, that those facts don't comply with your tender sensibilities is not my problem.

I don't break things up in sections like you do because I like to keep each area of discussion seperate, I also don't take peices of a statement like you do and twist them into something that was never said or intended.

In Syria they forage for food, and if the wrong person has it there is another casualty of war. You should, though apparently you don't that the civilian victims in a war zone routinely do things that would be criminal anywhere else, but since there are so many cases of ISIS burning people alive theft sort of fades into the background, or have you done a personal inspection to see for yourself.

And not one thing you have said in any way casts doubt on the wisdom of teaching gun safety.
Don't you want people to be safe.
Teach kids and you have a much larger portion of the population who know how to be safe.
Before you go on another rant, read this part carefully.

THIS DOES IN NO WAY MEAN THAT I THINK KIDS SHOULD RUN AROUND WITH GUNS UNSUPERVISED.
KIDS CAN GO HUNTING AS YOUNG AS 12 WITH ADULT SUPERVISION.
THIS MEANS THAT SAFETY TRAINING SHOULD BEGIN NO LATER THAN 10.
I know you will distort this too but it might be humorous to watch you try.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/18/2015 6:20:16 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 6:45:43 PM   
JVoV


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Responsible ownership of firearms is underrated in regards to the law. Each year, over 200,000 firearms are stolen in burglaries of homes, vehicles, and other properties in the US.

So nearly 1/4 million guns each year, unaccounted for, and controlled by criminals. That seems like reason enough to continue funding gun safety programs designed to teach responsible gun ownership.

quote:

ABOUT 1.4 MILLION GUNS STOLEN DURING HOUSEHOLD BURGLARIES
AND OTHER PROPERTY CRIMES FROM 2005 THROUGH 2010
WASHINGTON – About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year— about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes


http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fshbopc0510pr.cfm

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RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:14:38 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

Why not teach gun safety to kids so they don't, among other things, mistake a real gun for a toy. Teach them as kids and they will not need to be trained as adults.


It depends on what you mean as kids... if you are talking 15 to 21 then they are adult enough... anyone below does not have the common sense and maturity for gun safety... So spend it where it will do the most good... with adults... they sure as hell need it... for some damn reason they can't seem to keep guns out of the hands of their children...Given a limited amount of money who should be trained... children or adults... I would say good sense says adults.... Do you want to trust your 8 year old child with a gun? Let the people who legally buy guns learn how to properly secure them from children so children can lead children lives without having to learn about killing machines...sheeee

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/18/2015 7:22:57 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:15:20 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Responsible ownership of firearms is underrated in regards to the law. Each year, over 200,000 firearms are stolen in burglaries of homes, vehicles, and other properties in the US.

So nearly 1/4 million guns each year, unaccounted for, and controlled by criminals. That seems like reason enough to continue funding gun safety programs designed to teach responsible gun ownership.

quote:

ABOUT 1.4 MILLION GUNS STOLEN DURING HOUSEHOLD BURGLARIES
AND OTHER PROPERTY CRIMES FROM 2005 THROUGH 2010
WASHINGTON – About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year— about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes


http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fshbopc0510pr.cfm

Another good point.
Gun safes are a good idea.
I have one, actually two.
The lock broke on one of them and I had to drill out much of the front in order to get in.
Of course, as soon as possible I got another.
It took me several hours to break into it giving me some faith in it's protective value.

Responsible gun ownership is like responsible auto ownership, if you can't be responsible you shouldn't own one.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/18/2015 7:16:36 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:26:00 PM   
kdsub


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If things have gotten so bad in this country to where it is necessary teach our children how to handle guns then it is time to take the guns away because we are too irresponsible to own them.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:35:43 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If things have gotten so bad in this country to where it is necessary teach our children how to handle guns then it is time to take the guns away because we are too irresponsible to own them.

Butch
Well, I don't want cars taken away because we have to teach people how to drive them.

I see this much the same.


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:51:29 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Why not teach gun safety to kids so they don't, among other things, mistake a real gun for a toy. Teach them as kids and they will not need to be trained as adults.


It depends on what you mean as kids... if you are talking 15 to 21 then they are adult enough... anyone below does not have the common sense and maturity for gun safety... So spend it where it will do the most good... with adults... they sure as hell need it... for some damn reason they can't seem to keep guns out of the hands of their children...Given a limited amount of money who should be trained... children or adults... I would say good sense says adults.... Do you want to trust your 8 year old child with a gun? Let the people who legally buy guns learn how to properly secure them from children so children can lead children lives without having to learn about killing machines...sheeee

Butch

There you go accusing me of the very thing I put in caps that wasn't saying.
You contradict yourself, if the parent leaves a gun where a kid can find it wouldn't it be nice if the kid knew what to do.
I most emphatically stated that I was not promoting kids running around with guns.
You say they shouldn't be taught gun safety till they are 18 to 21. Here and other states they can hunt younger than that, shouldn't they have safety training well before that. Saying they have to take a test when they get the license doesn't cut it, safety should be ingrained in them well before they go into the field.
Teaching safety, not only with guns but with everything is always a good thing.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:52:49 PM   
kdsub


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Do you think you need to teach your 8 year old child how to drive your car?

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/18/2015 8:05:53 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:54:33 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If things have gotten so bad in this country to where it is necessary teach our children how to handle guns then it is time to take the guns away because we are too irresponsible to own them.

Butch

No wanting to see to it that kids have training to be responsible gun owners is a sign that gun owners are responsible themselfs.
If this was being fought by the NRA you would love the program and the fact that someone didn't want kids to be safe would be terrible.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:56:24 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If things have gotten so bad in this country to where it is necessary teach our children how to handle guns then it is time to take the guns away because we are too irresponsible to own them.

Butch
Well, I don't want cars taken away because we have to teach people how to drive them.

I see this much the same.


Bravo


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 7:59:25 PM   
kdsub


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Bama... parents leave guns where the child can get it all the time... and even children that have been taught about guns still pull the damn trigger... so no!!! Teach the parents that are supposed to be responsible how to keep guns away from children... who is responsible for the guns... adults or children?

I do believe it is YOUR responsibility to teach your child about guns... that is if you know what the hell you are doing... if you were required to take a mandatory class on gun safety maybe you would... Unless you are like the thousands of dumb ass men and women that kill their children with stupidity.

We are talking a funded program... are you too dumb to teach your child... do you need a program to teach them... if so give up your guns.

Every single gun owner should teach their children not to touch mom or dad's guns... but first THEY need to know what to teach and how... this is where the money needs to be spent.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/18/2015 8:09:33 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 8:18:27 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama... parents leave guns where the child can get it all the time... and even children that have been taught about guns still pull the damn trigger... so no!!! Teach the parents that are supposed to be responsible how to keep guns away from children... who is responsible for the guns... adults or children?

I do believe it is YOUR responsibility to teach your child about guns... that is if you know what the hell you are doing... if you were required to take a mandatory class on gun safety maybe you would... Unless you are like the thousands of dumb ass men and women that kill their children with stupidity.

We are taking a funded program... are you too dumb to teach your child... do you need a program to teach them... if so give up your guns.

Butch

I taught my son.
And I taught my nephew.
And I have taught several other kids.
Some younger than 8.
Total accidents among them 0 count em 0.
So yes I know how to do it.
When I was young they didn't have gun safes.
My father had to teach us gun safety.
Since you don't want to spend any govenment money to help make kids safe (or is it that you only don't want them to be safe with guns) you must support the Eddie Eagle program since it is free.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 8:52:05 PM   
cloudboy


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With so many guns out there, it's important to invest in safety training. I find it a bit funny that in order to truly make a gun safe, it has to be inaccessible to the people who might use it. Seems like it's easier to simply not have a gun in the house.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 8:59:26 PM   
cloudboy


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Yes, the problem is guns in the wrong type of household. I don't imagine that the guns you've described (rifles) were kept loaded -- and the ammo might have been stored somewhere secure.

My sense also tells me that more gun accidents result from loaded guns in the house -- especially hand guns.


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RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 9:08:24 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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I want to spend my tax dollar teaching adults how to keep children safe... Did you need government money to teach your child?

You may think you do not need instruction to own a weapon... But would you feel safe if auto drivers did not have to take a certification test...Or your pilot on your next vacation.... Should we need to teach children how to fly planes as well?

Let spend the money to teach adults then let them teach their children.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The Coalition to Stop Gun ...Safety? - 9/18/2015 9:25:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I want to spend my tax dollar teaching adults how to keep children safe... Did you need government money to teach your child?

You may think you do not need instruction to own a weapon... But would you feel safe if auto drivers did not have to take a certification test...Or your pilot on your next vacation.... Should we need to teach children how to fly planes as well?

Let spend the money to teach adults then let them teach their children.

Butch

Who said anything about not needing instruction.
I recieved instruction further back than I remember, and I remember back to about the time I was 5 or 6.
I started shooting when I was 8.
Always with adult supervision.
You favor kids being able to be taught how to use tools safely (shop class)
and how to drive safely (drivers ed) both at government expense. Don't you favor sex education, why not just let the parents do it, you don't need money to teach your kids about sex do you?

But God forbid we should have firearms safety classes if it costs the govenment one dime. You didn't answer about the Eddie Eagle program which is free. But if there is an accident involving a kid that, in your mind, is an excuse to collect guns. Yet you tell yourself you don't want to ban them. Finish your argument with yourself before you try to argue with me.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/18/2015 9:30:32 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 80
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