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Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 1:09:43 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		A friend of mine shared a animated short on the other site. It was called, simply, "consent is like a cup of tea."

"If you are still struggling with the idea of consent, think of it like you were making someone a cup of tea.

You say, "hey, would you like a cup of tea?'

And the other person says, "fuck yea! I would love a cup of tea. Thank you. OMG. Tea!"

Then, you know, they want a cup of tea.

Instead, if you offer a person a cup of tea, and they are, like, "ummm, I'm not really sure..."

Then, you can make them a cup of tea, or not. And, it's really ok if they don't really want a cup of tea.

Here's the important part... If you've made them a cup of tea and they decide they don't want it. DON'T TRY TO MAKE THEM DRINK THE F^CKING TEA.

Just because you made it, doesn't mean you are entitled to watch them drink it.

And, if they said "no, thank you," then, don't make them tea... At all. Just don't make them tea. Don't try to make them drink tea. Don't get annoyed that they don't want tea. Don't try to force them to drink tea. They just don't want tea.

They might say, "yes, please... That's kind of you." And then, when the tea arrives, they have changed their mind about wanting tea. Sure, that's kind of annoying after you've boiled the water, brewed the tea, done all of the work just to find out the other person doesn't want tea. But, even then, you don't get to force the other person to drink tea.

They wanted tea.. Now, they don't. Just because you made the tea doesn't mean that they are under any obligation to drink it. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO WATCH THEM DRINK THE TEA.

And, if they are unconscious, they really don't want the tea. They might have wanted the tea when they were awake, but they are unconscious now, so don't try to make them drink tea.

UNCONSCIOUS PEOPLE DON'T WANT TEA.

They can't answer the question about wanting tea. OK, maybe they were conscious when you asked them about wanting tea. They said "yes" but by the time you got the kettle, boiled the water, and brewed the tea, and came back with the lovely cup of tea, they passed out. That means, they no longer want tea. Because...

UNCONSCIOUS PEOPLE DON'T WANT TEA.

Just put the tea down.

Don't try to force the unconscious person to drink tea.

Make sure the unconscious person is safe. 'Cause if you don't, there's not chance of them sharing tea with you again.

Oh, and this is really important...

If somebody passed out in the middle of having tea... DON'T KEEP POURING IT DOWN THEIR THROAT.

UNCONSCIOUS PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TEA!!!

Oh, and if somebody said they wanted tea last week, that doesn't mean they want tea today. You don't get to show up at their door saying that, once they've had tea, they have to drink it all of the time. You don't get to waterboard someone by forcing the tea down their throat.

So, if you can understand why someone might not want tea, why is it so hard when it comes to sex?

Consent is like a cup of tea.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread
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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 1:40:44 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Love this!

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Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 1:48:27 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Nice one LP. Very appropriate.

I just wish some asshats would remember that.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 1:57:09 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline 		I thought I followed the analogy and I enjoyed and will never forget the analogy, because it's apropos (although I changed tea, to pee, just for fun, but, that's a minor switch).

However ... I didn't quite get the triple emphasis on being unconscious.

Might you kindly expound on the unconscious part, more so than just restating the obvious (which would have only taken one statement, and not thrice that)?

Why the special emphasis on being unconscious?

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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 2:03:09 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Cartoon for reference: https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 2:04:12 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

Why the special emphasis on being unconscious?


Because of the fact that a lot of consent violations where the perpetrator later claims they didn't know they didn't have consent happen with the victim unconscious.

E.G. drunken passed out frat girls getting raped.

Consent violations still happen with conscious people who actively and loudly say "no", but it those cases, it's less likely for the perpetrator to later claim that they were completely unaware of the fact that the victim refused consent (though they might still claim that they didn't think she REALLY meant "no" when she said "no").

BTW, thanks for that LP. I'm so sharing it every fucking possible place where it's even slightly appropriate.



< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 9/27/2015 2:09:52 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 2:11:45 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

I thought I followed the analogy and I enjoyed and will never forget the analogy, because it's apropos (although I changed tea, to pee, just for fun, but, that's a minor switch).

However ... I didn't quite get the triple emphasis on being unconscious.

Might you kindly expound on the unconscious part, more so than just restating the obvious (which would have only taken one statement, and not thrice that)?

Why the special emphasis on being unconscious?

Because, dingbat, those that are not able to to make any consentual agreement or otherwise doesn't automatically mean "Yes".
The point being made here is that "the norm" should be a resounding 'NO', not an assumption of 'Yes'.
And it needs to hammered into the heads of people because so far, 'the norm' is to assume a 'yes'.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 2:34:21 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Because, dingbat, those that are not able to to make any consentual agreement


Ummm... I'm gonna follow UllrsIshtar's lead, and be super polite by simply saying that this was quite obvious the first time it was said.

I was asking why it was said three times, as if there was a particularly egregious situation where it needed to be emphasized not only twice, but thrice.

Turns out, after reviewing the video, LadyPact was simply mirroring the triple emphasis in the aforementioned video.

Apparently, by the video repeating a trivially simple and painfully obvious statement three times, the point is that some people don't get it the first time, nor even the second time.

I hadn't known this was a problem, but, then again, I doubt I have ever even been next to an unconscious person in my entire life, so, it's not something I have any experience with. Apparently, the author of the video does.


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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 2:50:16 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
And it needs to hammered into the heads of people because so far, 'the norm' is to assume a 'yes'.


Precisely right!

Kind of backwards, isn't it? That we should *have* to tell people that we don't want tea?



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 3:03:09 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		I wanna add some things to that video specifically for the kink community, based on some of the weirdo misrepresentations of consent violations I've seen in the kink community over the years...

Seeing that "tea" stands for "sex", I will replace "kink" with "coffee" so that the issues don't get confused.

____

While pouring coffee down somebody's mouth without first asking them if they want you to pour coffee down their mouth is no cool under any circumstance, simple OFFERING them coffee, and waiting to see if they want it is not a consent violation.

Examples of the contrary to this I've seen in the kink community:

- The claim that, when meeting somebody for the first time, sticking out your hand to indicate that you'd like to shake hands is a consent violation, because you're "pressuring them" into bodily contact they may not want.
To be clear: going to somebody and grabbing their hand, or grabbing them for a hug, without first checking if it's cool, is not okay. Merely indicating that you would like to shake hands by sticking out yours is NOT a consent violation.

- The claim that asking a stranger in a club if they would like to engage in X-type play with you is a consent violation, again because you're "pressuring them" into play they might not want to have.
To be clear: nagging, peer pressuring, or forcing somebody to play is not cool. Merely asking them if they'd like to is not a consent violation.

____

You have the legal right to brew coffee ANY place where it's legal for you to brew coffee. If there happen to be third parties present who are uncomfortable at you brewing coffee in a place where it's legal for you to do so, you are NOT violating their consent, because, by being in a place where it's legal for your to brew coffee, they have implicitly consented to witnessing the brewing of coffee.
Brewing alcohol, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. It is generally not legal to brew alcohol in public places (in the US) and it's especially inappropriate to do so with kids around. Brewing alcohol in public places DOES violate third party's consent, because they did not implicitly agree to see you brew alcohol around their kids.

Examples of this I've seen in the kink community:

- The claim that a Little playing on a playground in a public park (without sexual subtext) is a third party consent violation, because she's "secretly" engaging in kink and exposing others.
- The claim that wearing an obvious collar in public is a consent violation, because adults are going to know what it is and what it means, and it's going to make them feel uncomfortable.
- The claim that gay guys kissing in front of the religious right (or their kids) is a consent violation, because the religious right did not consent to seeing gay guys kiss (in front of their kids).

To be clear: engaging in ILLEGAL behavior in public, be it kinky or otherwise, is a third party consent violation, because people did not implicitly agree to seeing illegal behavior in public. However, if you're legally engaging in kink by going down a slide, barking at another dog, wearing a collar, or calling your Top "Master", you are not violating others consent, EVEN if it makes them uncomfortable when you do so.
This is because, people who go to public places implicitly consent to seeing stuff that's legal to happen in such public places, even if it makes them uncomfortable due to their own believes.
This implied consent extends to mini-skirts and burkas, people of any gender kissing or holding hands with people of whichever other gender, punkers, hippies, mormons and kinksters wearing clothing outside of the norm (that's legal), and so on.
Other people's discomfort at legal behavior in a public place does not equate to consent violations.

____

If you ask somebody is they'd like coffee, and they're not sure because they've never had coffee before, it's a good idea to inform them of their options (coffee with milk/sugar/black). If they then tell you that they'd like to try coffee with milk and sugar (the way you tend to drink it) and you brew them a cup, they try it, and halfway through the cup they decide that they don't like milk and sugar in their coffee after all, and you smile, tell them "that's alright" and take away the cup, you did NOT violate their consent. Of course, if the moment they decide they don't like milk and sugar in their coffee after all, you force them to finish the cup, cause, after all, you already made it, you are violating consent...

Examples I've seen of this in the kink community:

- A scene gets negotiated with the bottom being unsure of what they want or like. The scene goes off without a glitch. At no point does the bottom complain. But then, a few days later (usually after talking to some 'friends') the bottom decides they didn't like the scene after all, and accuses the Top of consent violation.
- Or, the scene gets negotiated, and halfway through the scene the bottom safewords, so the Top stops the entire scene. Afterwards, despite the Top stopping at the first sign of trouble, they still get accused of a consent violation, because they didn't predict that to the bottom would want to safeword if they carried on until the point that the bottom did indeed safeword.

To be clear: if a bottom changes their mind during the scene and lets the Top know, and the Top refuses to stop, that IS a consent violation. However, you cannot accuse somebody AFTER the fact that they violated your consent if you first said "yes" and then at no point in time indicated that you changed your mind by saying "no/safeword" DURING the scene.
The Top isn't a mindreader, they're going to go on based on your previous consent UNTIL you indicate that that consent changed. Them doing so when you secretly changed you mind but didn't say so is NOT a consent violation.

___


I'm sure there are more, but those are some of the bizarre ones off the top of my head I've seen in kink-land over the past decade or so.





< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 9/27/2015 3:10:04 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 3:41:48 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		She's so smart. Watch this!


quote:

The claim that, when meeting somebody for the first time, sticking out your hand to indicate that you'd like to shake hands is a consent violation, because you're "pressuring them" into bodily contact they may not want.


Kind of like offering them a cup of tea. They can choose to take the tea, or not. Offering a person a cup of tea gives them the option.

quote:

The claim that asking a stranger in a club if they would like to engage in X-type play with you is a consent violation, again because you're "pressuring them" into play they might not want to have.


Offer tea or force the tea? I can ask for anything I like, really. If you say no, I need to take my tea and go somewhere else.

quote:


- A scene gets negotiated with the bottom being unsure of what they want or like. The scene goes off without a glitch. At no point does the bottom complain. But then, a few days later (usually after talking to some 'friends') the bottom decides they didn't like the scene after all, and accuses the Top of consent violation.


So, we had tea on Thursday, and Sunday, you regretted having tea with me. Maybe, we had milk and sugar in our tea, which was fine when we were having tea, but then later, you thought, "Damn! I shouldn't have had that sugar in my tea!" Now, you have to exercise more because we had sugar, rather than Sweet -N- Low.

quote:

Or, the scene gets negotiated, and halfway through the scene the bottom safewords, so the Top stops the entire scene. Afterwards, despite the Top stopping at the first sign of trouble, they still get accused of a consent violation, because they didn't predict that to the bottom would want to safeword if they carried on until the point that the bottom did indeed safeword

Maybe, halfway through your tea, you decided that tea wasn't a good idea at all. I can't take back making the tea, or that you drank half a cup. All I can do is take the tea away.

She's got this entire concept.





_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 3:45:36 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		I have been known to have my moments.

But hey, tea is sex... kink is coffee (cause everybody knows that coffee gets you more jacked up than tea ).

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 3:48:56 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'd better hope not. Maybe I should have made a diet pepsi analogy.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 10:57:46 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Kind of backwards, isn't it? That we should *have* to tell people that we don't want tea?

Three times, no less.

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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/27/2015 11:13:10 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		The best I can suggest is to skip being hung up on the three mentions of folks being unconscious. I happen to think they way they did that was kind of funny but I have a weird sense of humor.

Rather, it could be more interesting to talk about the topic of consent. At least it's kink related.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/28/2015 12:32:00 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Love the analogy.
Im gonna share that, and remember it.
Ive not dealt with an unconscious person outside of nursing...I know what NOT to do, and a faint is slightly different to complete unconsciousness. But its good medical advice:)
Tea in the lungs is a deal breaker.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

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RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/28/2015 12:38:24 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Tea in the lungs is a deal breaker.


See, my instructor told me certain types of tea add and extra torture dimension to waterboarding that I've been curious about ever since. Though I've yet to get to try it out so far. Ullr is all paranoid about slowly easing into the "potentially lethal, and can serious fuck you up even when things go right" type play. He's such a party pooper.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/28/2015 12:49:53 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		unfortunately most medical type play, (enemas, catheters, breaking bones, water play/ breath play and cutting) im so objective or detached, I cant get pleasure from it. Im more than competent with accidents, but it is objective, there is just no emotional attachment to it.
Maybe if I should find myself in a long term bdsm partnership, it might be different.
I can understand the desire.... and yes hes a party pooper, but I get that too:)
Btw You had me purring at your heavy bondage kink the other day.... LOVE It.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/28/2015 1:02:04 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Btw You had me purring at your heavy bondage kink the other day.... LOVE It.


You should like our latest new toy then: http://winterfetish.com/catalog/Darlex-Sleepsack.html

Matching hood. Though I prefer our heavy duty leather sensory deprivation one (but again he's being a party pooper, apparently I need to be able to breath unrestricted at night or something... pfffff).

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 9/28/2015 1:03:37 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Best. Analogy. Ever! (Look inside) - 9/28/2015 1:11:49 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		heheheh Yes I have that marked myself.. ALtho the one I have my eye on I cant find the link for is a heavy rubber one with all the ties s buckles. Ill see if I can find the link.
Not realistic right now, but a wish list top item.


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 20
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