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RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 4:53:37 PM   
KYsissy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: KYsissy

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
your entire premise rests on the veracity of petroleum being a finite resource.

im far from a geology expert, but it seems debatable as to whether or not that's true. there seems to be plenty of folks who think it isn't.


Then present evidence to the contrary.

Google abiotic oil. The Russians have claimed to have drilled for oil far far below where it cannot possibly be dino oil. NASA has found hydrocarbons in large quantities on one of Saturn's moons. It could be that hydrocarbons are more mineral in nature and the heat and pressures of the planet make oil. The theory has been around a while but evidence is starting to back the theory up.

Also there are many technical publications on this subject at www.gasresources.net


Ok, explain how we get to and from Saturn in a logical manner. Do you know how long it takes to travel to Saturn one way? Here's a hint: Takes us 1.2 years to go from Earth to Mars. So while there might be loads of the stuff on that planet, the logistics are just unfeasible to make a 'go at it'. Lets just say we got the stuff and came back to Earth; how do we get it planet side? One would think 'like we do astronauts; one spark later, the whole thing becomes a fireball.

Getting fuel from Saturn is a silly idea at best.

The Russians would claim they have the best anima artists if they thought that would make them sound like a strong nation. There is stating stuff, and actual evidence. Two different things.

No, this nation would be wise to not only shift over to renewable energies, but pour researches into making it better than anyone else!


Evidence to the contrary presented. That is all.


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:01:37 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		What future do you want for your grandchildren?

A: Citizens of the leading nation on the planet?

B: Lackeys of China

Pick one.

I would suspect that even a blind pig might be able to find more than just two posibilities

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:19:40 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

What future do you want for your grandchildren?

A: Citizens of the leading nation on the planet?

B: Lackeys of China

Pick one.

I would suspect that even a blind pig might be able to find more than just two posibilities

You didn't posit any additional so I must come to one conclusion.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 10/1/2015 5:20:39 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:24:15 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Again.
It is a FINITE resource.


Technically speaking, solar power is also finite.

quote:

The rest of the world is going to renewables.
What future do you want for your grandchildren?
A: Citizens of the leading nation on the planet?
B: Lackeys of China


We may yet become lackeys of China due to economic actions, anyway.

From your OP:
quote:

If we lead the charge, within a generation, our nation will once again be the industrial and intellectual center of the planet. Thousands of AMERICAN millionaires will be created and tens to hundreds of thousands of AMERICAN jobs will be created.


There are already calls for redistribution of income on a global/country level.

Plus, there's this...
    quote:

    Wealth United States
    Mark Williamson | Oxford Scientific | Getty Images
    America may have a dysfunctional political system, but it continues to lead the world in significant wealth creation.
    A new report from Credit Suisse shows that 1.7 million of the 1.8 million millionaires added to the ranks in the past year were created in the U.S., which now boasts 13.2 million millionaires. Rising stock markets, the housing rebound and a broader increase in asset values have fueled the surge.


A paltry "thousand of American millionaires" will be made? From 2012 to 2013, the US made 1.7 million new millionaires.

And, how are these millionaires going to be made? Are we going to have government increase spending in renewables to the point where private citizens are going to be raking in the dough? Are these millionaires going to be made off the public dole, or from other sources? Who are these sources of money (someone has to be spending money to make others millionaires)?

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(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:27:15 PM   
KYsissy


Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline 		Nuclear scares me for obvious reasons. Yeah the track record is pretty good but when things go bad, they go bad in a big way.
Ethanol from cellulose has promise though the few commercial sized operations are either out of business or will be soon.
Wind and solar work, except on calm cloudy days.
I Dont think there is a magic bullet. It will be a combination of all things. I think there is far more oil than the peak oil group would have us believe but as was stated before, usage has to be far exceeding creation, no matter how its formed.
The price of solar has been dropping fast making it a viable alternative. We should build small scale solar facilities that are easily upgraded and add on when feasible. Triple or quadruple redundancy would need to be built in for, ya know, weather. But scattered sites all over the country plugged into the grid would work. Start now so its not this massive undertaking that needs to be done all at once.

I am all for more alternatives and true energy independance.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:29:32 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

[
A paltry "thousand of American millionaires" will be made? From 2012 to 2013, the US made 1.7 million new millionaires.


That would mean a new millionaire pre hundred families.

Do you know a hundred families? I know several.

Know any new millionaires?
I don't
I'm calling BS.

At least I didn't give Obama credit for all the new millionaires.

I also said "Thousands", not a thousand. You read better than that.
As for where the money comes from, maybe we can export something besides refined petroleum. (our major export)

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 10/1/2015 5:31:03 PM >

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:30:38 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I would suspect that even a blind pig might be able to find more than just two posibilities

You didn't posit any additional so I must come to one conclusion.

Since I am not a blind pig I am content to point out my firm grasp of the obvious

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:32:13 PM   
Extravagasm


Posts: 230
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		Production does not take away atmospheric CO2. I hope you don't hold that, as a dogma.
quote:

Hill post 40: If production exceeded usage, then atmospheric CO2 would decrease.
Atmospheric CO2 is increasing.
No, the atmospheric CO2 is effected by above ground energy use (burning) and by above ground human interventions such as deforestation -- not effected by deep earth resource production.
The necessary organic raw materials for deep earth production were down there millions of years ago and still are. It's a bit like light coming from far away galaxies, it began millions of years ago and there almost nothing we can do now to fuck it up. Only isolated fields go empty. But others are eventually discovered.

BTW I've nothing against US leadership, as long as it does not translate into military theft of foreign resources, as it often does. And I know that's not what you advocate. But please note, the same US leadership argument can (and is) being made by those who believe preventable-climate change is what we need to lead on. It's not unique or preferable coming from your depleting resources argument. Peace.


< Message edited by Extravagasm -- 10/1/2015 5:37:40 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:38:41 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I would suspect that even a blind pig might be able to find more than just two posibilities

You didn't posit any additional so I must come to one conclusion.

Since I am not a blind pig I am content to point out my firm grasp of the obvious

Ohhhhhhhh, I dunno. You seem to accept those 2

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:39:31 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		From 2012 to 2013, the US made 1.7 million new millionaires.

How much of that was due to inflation?
Have we caught up to the 2008 level yet?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:41:10 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		No, the atmospheric CO2 is effected by above ground energy use

Not in my english book is isn't.

(in reply to Extravagasm)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:41:31 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

Production does not take away atmospheric CO2. I hope you don't hold that, as a dogma.
quote:

Hill post 40: If production exceeded usage, then atmospheric CO2 would decrease.
Atmospheric CO2 is increasing.
No, the atmospheric CO2 is effected by above ground energy use (burning) and by above ground human interventions such as deforestation -- not effected by deep earth resource production.
The necessary organic raw materials for deep earth production were down there millions of years ago and still are. It's a bit like light coming from far away galaxies, it began millions of years ago and there almost nothing we can do now to fuck it up. Only isolated fields go empty. But others are eventually discovered.

BTW I've nothing against US leadership, as long as it does not translate into military theft of foreign resources, as it often does. And I know that's not what you advocate. But please note, the same US leadership argument can (and is) being made by those who believe preventable-climate change is what we need to lead on. It's not unique or preferable coming from your depleting resources argument. Peace.


Any carbon that is that deep is in the form of diamond or carbonates, not hydrocarbons.

Again, C increasing in the atmosphere means that more is being added than taken out.
3rd grade math.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Extravagasm)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:42:15 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Technically speaking, solar power is also finite.

Not in it's relationship with homo-sapians

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 5:43:32 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		 I dunno. You seem to accept those 2

Nope

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 6:05:55 PM   
Extravagasm


Posts: 230
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		What you have here is a tautology, not 3rd grade math.
quote:

Hill post 52: Again, C increasing in the atmosphere means that more is being added than taken out. 3rd grade math.

C increasing in the atmosphere means that more C is being added to the atmosphere than taken out of the atmosphere. Okkkkkk. . .

And speaking of 3rd grade, you would make an ineffective teacher since you either cannot or will not explicate how that has something to do with inner earth energy production and sequestering rates. There's some dogma lurking in your premises that you honestly seem unwilling to expose.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 6:46:03 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown



Did you miss what I posted earlier,we(humanity)now have the ability to creat fuel from shit......Last time I checked,we have a lot of shit(not just in these forums)

The only thing that makes ethonal an unsuitable replacemeant for petrolium is that the production of ethonal consumes alot of agraculteral resources that are normally devoted to,you know,food production.




I didn't miss it at all.

You are talking about renewable, non petroleum energy.

This and other sources is what our nation needs to be leading the charge in, not waiting for someone else.


I figured you had seen it,I was asking the missguided fellow who suggests Nuclear energy is a viable solution to our energy needs

Using nuclear energy to power our society is like doing meth to stay awake for work/study. It may seem like a greate idea at first,but the negatives quickly out weigh the positives


Not if we perfect the use of Thorium and it's high time we did.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 7:13:19 PM   
PyrotheClown


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown



Did you miss what I posted earlier,we(humanity)now have the ability to creat fuel from shit......Last time I checked,we have a lot of shit(not just in these forums)

The only thing that makes ethonal an unsuitable replacemeant for petrolium is that the production of ethonal consumes alot of agraculteral resources that are normally devoted to,you know,food production.




I didn't miss it at all.

You are talking about renewable, non petroleum energy.

This and other sources is what our nation needs to be leading the charge in, not waiting for someone else.


I figured you had seen it,I was asking the missguided fellow who suggests Nuclear energy is a viable solution to our energy needs

Using nuclear energy to power our society is like doing meth to stay awake for work/study. It may seem like a greate idea at first,but the negatives quickly out weigh the positives


Not if we perfect the use of Thorium and it's high time we did.


Or you know,not use thorium

Use something like this instead

It's able to pull power even on cloudy days,even from MOON light,and with enough development,it can be made much cheaper,since the biggest component is a giant lens....

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 10:05:27 PM   
Extravagasm


Posts: 230
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline 		Crude energy fuels, form down within the earth, from organic material, inorganic materials, pressure, and time. All of those are already in the earth. There's some debate about exactly how the components merge, but it's never said to involve things happening above the surface. Things like the CO2 in the upper atmosphere don't influence, or act as markers for energy resource production rate, down within the earth. They could act as by-product markers for USE of fuel, because that happens above the surface.

But all that is a red herring on the matter of depletion. Regarding depletion, what matters is (not the method but) the RATE of energy extraction, vs (not the method but) the rate of resource production down within the earth. Shocking as is it, that rate of production was roughly determined millions of years ago, by the rate of inputs at that time.

Now it is possible that earthlings could reach a rate of use greater than the earth's rate of production. No one has yet conclusively established that this has happened, or when it would.

< Message edited by Extravagasm -- 10/1/2015 10:53:56 PM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/1/2015 10:10:28 PM   
Extravagasm


Posts: 230
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Extrava: No, the atmospheric CO2 is effected by above ground energy use . .
thompson: Not in my english book is isn't.
Lol Thanx for the spelling correction.

_____________________________

BDSM operates on submission. Not on love, fairness, or convention.

The way to a Dom . . is to follow his karma, wallow in his grime, Swim in his heart.©

Yeah, fantasy is not reality. That's how it gives direction to the truly gifted.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Global warming............................doesn't m... - 10/2/2015 1:48:43 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extravagasm

Now it is possible that earthlings could reach a rate of use greater than the earth's rate of production. No one has yet conclusively established that this has happened, or when it would.



I may have this wrong but I think there was a guy named Hubbert, who, back in the 50s said we'd run out of oil by the 70s. Ooooops!

Wasn't there a report, just in the last couple of years that we'd hit a world peak like ... about ... last Thursday??



Michael

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Profile   Post #: 60
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