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Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/2/2015 7:40:35 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		http://www2.abc15.com/web/knxv/news/national/sdsu-students-facing-possible-expulsion-for-refusing-to-remove-american-military-flags-from-balcony-092815

Is this a safety issue?
Is this a first amendment issue?

I think it is first amendment issue. These two actors are expressing their pride in current/future employment, their country and their school (I think it is a school banner up there with the flags). On the safety issue, I think they just want to spy on the students.
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/2/2015 7:43:57 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www2.abc15.com/web/knxv/news/national/sdsu-students-facing-possible-expulsion-for-refusing-to-remove-american-military-flags-from-balcony-092815

Is this a safety issue?
Is this a first amendment issue?

I think it is first amendment issue. These two actors are expressing their pride in current/future employment, their country and their school (I think it is a school banner up there with the flags). On the safety issue, I think they just want to spy on the students.

From your link:

The SDSU living agreement reads: "No items, except patio furniture designed for outdoor use, may be placed on balconies and patios. Hangings, partitions, or curtains of any type may not be used on balconies or patios."

K.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/2/2015 7:51:48 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www2.abc15.com/web/knxv/news/national/sdsu-students-facing-possible-expulsion-for-refusing-to-remove-american-military-flags-from-balcony-092815

Is this a safety issue?
Is this a first amendment issue?

I think it is first amendment issue. These two actors are expressing their pride in current/future employment, their country and their school (I think it is a school banner up there with the flags). On the safety issue, I think they just want to spy on the students.

From your link:

The SDSU living agreement reads: "No items, except patio furniture designed for outdoor use, may be placed on balconies and patios. Hangings, partitions, or curtains of any type may not be used on balconies or patios."

K.



noun
1.
the movable articles, as tables, chairs, desks or cabinets, required for use or ornament in a house, office, or the like.
2.
fittings, apparatus, or necessary accessories for something.
3.
equipment for streets and other public areas, as lighting standards, signs, benches, or litter bins.
4.
Also called bearer, dead metal. Printing. pieces of wood or metal, less than type high, set in and about pages of type to fill them out and hold the type in place in a chase.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/furniture

The such as is not all inclusive and they meet the definition of movable articles and equipment for streets and other public areas.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/2/2015 7:59:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		se·man·tics
səˈman(t)iks/
noun
noun: semantics; noun: logical semantics; noun: lexical semantics

the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.
the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text.
plural noun: semantics
"such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/2/2015 9:00:40 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I have found that to military personnel, the display of the various flags are not "petty stuff"

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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 3:20:37 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Is this a safety issue?


Consider what we are discussing: college campus + young adults + alcoholic beverages + parties. What could....possibly go wrong? I've seen and heard plenty of drunk young adults being injured and killed while performing actions they might not have taken sober. In this instance, the school does have a valid point on the removal of flags from the balcony due to safety issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Is this a first amendment issue?


The students would have to form a better argument than "its my 1st amendment right" to display flags. Could someone make a flag of a student on campus naked and claim 1st amendment right? I think the naked person might have something to say to that. How about a flag that is something offensive or viewed in a manner to incite anger? If your going to state 'this is a 1st amendment right', one has to explain....how...its protected. They have the burden of evidence to produce.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
I think it is first amendment issue. These two actors are expressing their pride in current/future employment, their country and their school (I think it is a school banner up there with the flags). On the safety issue, I think they just want to spy on the students.


I see this more as a safety issue rather than 1st amendment issue. If the school wish to spy on the students, they just place a filter or two on all internet traffic coming and and going out.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 4:07:15 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr42/text

I believe that students have use of their rooms and balconey's Thus meeting the requirements of Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. Section 4 does give some relief to both parties.

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 4:15:44 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I have found that to military personnel, the display of the various flags are not "petty stuff"

You are a *****Ah ah! That's not allowed. Be nice or be moderated!*****. Just because you are a flag waving lifer does not mean that all military people feel the same way 

< Message edited by M38284 -- 10/6/2015 7:46:38 AM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 4:27:56 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: KenDckey

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr42/text

I believe that students have use of their rooms and balconey's Thus meeting the requirements of Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. Section 4 does give some relief to both parties.


I should think, as usual, you are full of shit.
First: This does not give them a right to put up the army flag or the coast guard flag.
Seccond: They do not have an ownership right. Take this opportunity to read the residence agreement between the state of california and the students in student housing.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 4:33:08 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr42/text

I believe that students have use of their rooms and balconey's Thus meeting the requirements of Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. Section 4 does give some relief to both parties.

Well, they claim it's a safety concern because they can block visibility. Sounds pretty thin to me, but here's an even worse one:



MURRAY, Utah -- Homeowners in Murray say they are being fined by their home owner's association for flying the American Flag. Chestnut Place is a condominium community consisting of about 60 homeowners. Up until last week, those living in the community say they were free to fly their flags without regulation or restriction, but recently that changed.

"After the last board meeting, we were leaving and two members of the board and a resident said they were tired of looking at the flag," said Jo Ann Dugay, who is one of the five board members on the Home Owners Association... last week those living in the community were warned to take down the flags. ~Source

Thanks for the legal reference.

K.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 5:03:56 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I have found that to military personnel, the display of the various flags are not "petty stuff"

You are a lying little pogue. Just because you are a flag waving lifer does not mean that all military people feel the same way 



Neither of us can prove or disprove this. I reported what I have found. Doesn't make me a liar. You can't prove that what I have found in my lifetime is wrong. Yes, I am a lifer under the military context. Do I wave a flag? Not normally. After some idiot cut down my flag pole and stole my American and Blue Star Service Flags, I quit flying them.

quote:


I should think, as usual, you are full of shit.
First: This does not give them a right to put up the army flag or the coast guard flag.
Seccond: They do not have an ownership right. Take this opportunity to read the residence agreement between the state of california and the students in student housing.


I think you read that "or" as an "and"

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 5:06:18 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr42/text

I believe that students have use of their rooms and balconey's Thus meeting the requirements of Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. Section 4 does give some relief to both parties.

Well, they claim it's a safety concern because they can block visibility. Sounds pretty thin to me, but here's an even worse one:



MURRAY, Utah -- Homeowners in Murray say they are being fined by their home owner's association for flying the American Flag. Chestnut Place is a condominium community consisting of about 60 homeowners. Up until last week, those living in the community say they were free to fly their flags without regulation or restriction, but recently that changed.

"After the last board meeting, we were leaving and two members of the board and a resident said they were tired of looking at the flag," said Jo Ann Dugay, who is one of the five board members on the Home Owners Association... last week those living in the community were warned to take down the flags. ~Source

Thanks for the legal reference.

K.

I read several different versions of this. Seems the HOA President feels that to fly the flag on anything other than a holiday is against the law. I found nothing in the code to support her and if they go to court, I feel quite confident that she will lose.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 6:28:38 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I have found that to military personnel, the display of the various flags are not "petty stuff"

You are a lying little pogue. Just because you are a flag waving lifer does not mean that all military people feel the same way 



Neither of us can prove or disprove this. I reported what I have found. Doesn't make me a liar. You can't prove that what I have found in my lifetime is wrong. Yes, I am a lifer under the military context. Do I wave a flag? Not normally. After some idiot cut down my flag pole and stole my American and Blue Star Service Flags, I quit flying them.

quote:


I should think, as usual, you are full of shit.
First: This does not give them a right to put up the army flag or the coast guard flag.
Seccond: They do not have an ownership right. Take this opportunity to read the residence agreement between the state of california and the students in student housing.


I think you read that "or" as an "and"



ken, that guy is way up there on my list of vile people I wish would just go the heck away...your gentleness with such a schmuck is really commendable.



< Message edited by bounty44 -- 10/3/2015 6:36:03 AM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 7:20:33 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		out for a clock, out for a flag. no difference.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 7:25:36 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

ken, that guy is way up there on my list of vile people I wish would just go the heck away...


In the adult world, it doesn't work that way.

(in reply to bounty44)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 7:26:47 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

home owner's association
K.

THIS is among the reasons I love living in the country -- not a lot of rules, and we work things out with our neighbors.

(in reply to Kirata)
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RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 7:46:17 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

home owner's association
K.

THIS is among the reasons I love living in the country -- not a lot of rules, and we work things out with our neighbors.

Yup Yup Yup

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 8:44:13 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3679
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Maybe they should buy flame retardant flags.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 8:45:46 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr42/text

I believe that students have use of their rooms and balconey's Thus meeting the requirements of Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. Section 4 does give some relief to both parties.


You are incorrect. There is no ownership interest by the tenants and school dorms are none of the above.


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Potential Student Expulsion for Flag Display - 10/3/2015 10:16:59 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

SEC. 3. RIGHT TO DISPLAY THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES.

A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr42/text

I believe that students have use of their rooms and balconey's Thus meeting the requirements of Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005. Section 4 does give some relief to both parties.


You are incorrect. There is no ownership interest by the tenants and school dorms are none of the above.


I disagree

1 - It is a public university and the individuals are members of the public, thus an extremely minute ownership trail can be made. Not a real good argument tho.

2 - You forgot the "OR" clause. Please don't read it as and. I didn't create it but that is the will of two branches of government (legeslative and executive)

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 20
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