RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms

RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (Full Version)

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freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 1:41:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul He is the one that is making the accusation repeatedly. Only in response to Bama's continued personal attacks on me. I didn't fire the first volley and I am not the one constantly bringing up irrelevant content. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And it doesn't matter what law you want to believe I broke to go to jail it is a lie. Just admit you screwed up and we can go on. I didn't say you broke the law - I said that I remember you mentioning it about yourself. Not the same thing Bama. And yet again we are derailing the thread because of personal insults that have no business here.

BamaD -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 1:49:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul He is the one that is making the accusation repeatedly. Only in response to Bama's continued personal attacks on me. I didn't fire the first volley and I am not the one constantly bringing up irrelevant content. And yet again we are derailing the thread because of personal insults that have no business here. Prove I said it or apologize or retract. I already know what you have to say. Guns are evil. Guns force people to commit crimes. Get rid of the 2nd If you were just as evolved and we Europeans you would get rid of guns. Basicly shut up and listen to your betters. You have demonstrated that you know nothing about the U S and yet you pontificate on why we do things how things work here and why we should grow up and be like you. You have demostrated that you know nothing about the use of firearms but we should listen to you about them. You can't understand that our society is much different from yours and if it is we should just change and be like you. Now admit I didn't say it and you can get back to talking down to us.

stef -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 2:25:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I distinctly remember you saying something about you having a criminal record somewhere on these forums or at least being convicted of something. Yeah, you also "distinctly remember" shooting targets at 400 yards with a pellet gun so forgive people if they question your "memory."

BamaD -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 2:40:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I distinctly remember you saying something about you having a criminal record somewhere on these forums or at least being convicted of something. Yeah, you also "distinctly remember" shooting targets at 400 yards with a pellet gun so forgive people if they question your "memory." lol

ifmaz -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 7:04:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Well, if you give drugs to an addict, and they die, you are in for some problems, if you leave gasoline around for a baby to take a swim in, you are in for some problems, if you buy alcohol for minors you are in for some problems (and I could go on and on) and if you leave a gun for a child, or a mental defective..........you should be in some problems. In the other cases, there is some agreement, but on this thing, one must perform due diligence, if that is done, fine, if not..........I am for clapping the darbys on ya. Your first three comparisons show intent: one intends to give a drug addict drugs, a baby to swim in gasoline, or minors to acquire alcohol. I know of no person that intentionally leaves a weapon out to purposefully enable a child to obtain and use it. What you are referring to are accidents, either via negligence, stupidity, or both. Parents whose children obtain a weapon and accidentally kill themselves or others already have unimaginable consequences, why do you feel a need to add insult to injury? If a baby intends to swim in gasoline? Uh, no. Your statement was if you leave gasoline around for a baby to take a swim in, as in one intentionally leaves a pool of gasoline around and puts a baby in it.

ifmaz -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 7:08:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Notice how all of the mass murders with guns are committed by gun nuts? I know of two mass murders on US soil, one involved box cutters and the other involved fertilizer and a truck. Sandy Hook, Aurora Theater, YWAM and New Life, Columbine, Chuck E Cheese, ad nauseam. Just because you personally don't know of them does not pretend that they didnt happen. The death toll from the Oklahoma bombing alone was far greater than the ones you've mentioned. If one is looking strictly at numbers, fertilizer and box cutters are deadlier than firearms.

ifmaz -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 7:28:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Campus Shooting Came After Fight Between Two Groups of Students A fight that broke out between two groups of students at Northern Arizona University’s Flagstaff campus left one person dead and three hospitalized after one of the students shot the others with a handgun. ... Yes, that is tragic. Additionally tragic were the 40+ miners stabbed and killed in China. Perhaps addressing the issue of why people wish to inflict violence upon others instead of the tool used to inflict said violence may yield some preventative measures.

Lucylastic -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 7:55:57 PM)
And then what. Change human nature with drugs? Education? Removal of likely suspects brains? Or just their rights? I mean basic human rights, not just one.....yanno...the gun one Meanwhile.......

ifmaz -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 8:09:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic And then what. Change human nature with drugs? Education? Removal of likely suspects brains? Or just their rights? I mean basic human rights, not just one.....yanno...the gun one Meanwhile....... I was thinking more along of the lines of appropriate anger management being taught in schools. I am concerned that you would seemingly advocate the removal of brains, forced drugs, treating people as sub-human, and curtailing rights (including, yanno, the gun one).

lovmuffin -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/9/2015 11:28:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 If stupid people didn't have guns for the criminals to steal, they wouldn't have the guns to kill people with. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub If I wasn't such a level headed man I would say to the gun nuts here FUCK YOU DUMB ASS...each time this happens. Fucking simpletons, really, just pass a stupid law and problem solved ? We are not the UK with a land mass that fits inside Texas and Oklahoma, or Australia with its comparatively small population. With the comparatively few guns in private hands over there and a compliant populace, what makes you think those of us in the US with our shit load of guns have the same compliant attitude ? Not only that but the US with its land mass stretching from sea to shining sea is comprised of 50 fuckin states with their own seperate governments and their own and sometimes unique sets of laws. Your simpleton gun laws won't work in the US. Not only is gun control opposed by a huge segment of the population but a huge segment of the law enforcement population also. Unpopular laws plus massive noncompliance will just make things much worse. "If stupid people didn't have guns for the criminals to steal, they wouldn't have the guns to kill people with." Really Mr Genius ?? Try opening up a copy of the monthly Shotgun News. OOPs, my bad, ya probably don't get it over there in the UK. Try the internet. Maybe you can find it there. Inside you'll notice shitloads of wholesale military surplus firearms going as far back as beyond a century, Mousers, Enfield's, SKS rifles and all the rest of 'em. These come from stockpiles all over the world. Also stockpiled all over the world are later more modern arms. The number of AK47's produced worldwide alone are estimated to be in excess of 100 million. Top that off with the estimated 300 million guns in private hands here and only someone with the brain about the size of a piss ant would think criminals would be thwarted trying to obtain a gun. You guys need to go back to the drawing board. [sm=wtf.gif]

tweakabelle -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 1:57:25 AM)
One thing that emerges clearly from the various discussions of gun laws and gun violence here is that there are very different attitudes towards guns in the US than in comparable countries. Guns occupy a position in both US popular culture and official history that is unique to the US. Guns were allegedly the key to 'winning the West', they enjoy brandnames such as 'The Peacemaker' and it's rare to see a US crime or political drama that fails to grant an important role to guns and the people who use them, either for good or bad. To the bafflement of foreigners, guns are regarded by many as tools that enhance freedom rather than tools that take lives, even though they are used to take many more lives in the US than other comparable countries. The tone of many of the pro-gun posters here suggests that guns occupy a more important role in their lives than just about anything else, up to and including sex. The empassioned intransigence (that reaches belligerence on occasion) of their posts suggests that one is dealing with something that is important in their self image, their identities. To describe some people's attitudes towards their precious guns as obsessive is an understatement. While one cannot prove a simple causal connection between levels of gun availability ownership, gun laws and gun violence, one can state that guns are used to injure and kill people in the US at a far higher rate than other comparable countries. It seems to me that at least part of the explanation for this disparity can be found in the centrality of guns in US culture. Those who passionately defend their Second Amendment rights are as complicit in this regard as any gunslinger - both groups place a grossly over inflated value on guns in their lives and their participation in US society/culture. If this perspective has merit, then it follows that a revision of the role of guns in US culture and society if significant progress is to be made towards reducing the levels of gun violence. The halving of the numbers of active hunters in recent years indicates that this revision is already happening regardless of whether it is acknowledged as such or not. The pro-gun lobby has a critical role in revising the role of guns in US life for the betterment of all. If the pro-gun lobby are as serious about reducing the levels of gun violence as they insist they are, then they must accept this responsibility, as indeed must all sectors of US life

Lucylastic -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 3:49:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic And then what. Change human nature with drugs? Education? Removal of likely suspects brains? Or just their rights? I mean basic human rights, not just one.....yanno...the gun one Meanwhile....... I was thinking more along of the lines of appropriate anger management being taught in schools. I am concerned that you would seemingly advocate the removal of brains, forced drugs, treating people as sub-human, and curtailing rights (including, yanno, the gun one). You go right ahead with your concerns. Please tell me what part of my post speaks to me advocating anything i mentioned?

slavemali -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 4:34:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 If stupid people didn't have guns for the criminals to steal, they wouldn't have the guns to kill people with. quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub If I wasn't such a level headed man I would say to the gun nuts here FUCK YOU DUMB ASS...each time this happens. Fucking simpletons, really, just pass a stupid law and problem solved ? We are not the UK with a land mass that fits inside Texas and Oklahoma, or Australia with its comparatively small population. With the comparatively few guns in private hands over there and a compliant populace, what makes you think those of us in the US with our shit load of guns have the same compliant attitude ? Not only that but the US with its land mass stretching from sea to shining sea is comprised of 50 fuckin states with their own seperate governments and their own and sometimes unique sets of laws. Your simpleton gun laws won't work in the US. Not only is gun control opposed by a huge segment of the population but a huge segment of the law enforcement population also. Unpopular laws plus massive noncompliance will just make things much worse. "If stupid people didn't have guns for the criminals to steal, they wouldn't have the guns to kill people with." Really Mr Genius ?? Try opening up a copy of the monthly Shotgun News. OOPs, my bad, ya probably don't get it over there in the UK. Try the internet. Maybe you can find it there. Inside you'll notice shitloads of wholesale military surplus firearms going as far back as beyond a century, Mousers, Enfield's, SKS rifles and all the rest of 'em. These come from stockpiles all over the world. Also stockpiled all over the world are later more modern arms. The number of AK47's produced worldwide alone are estimated to be in excess of 100 million. Top that off with the estimated 300 million guns in private hands here and only someone with the brain about the size of a piss ant would think criminals would be thwarted trying to obtain a gun. You guys need to go back to the drawing board. [sm=wtf.gif] yaa relatively small population statement, indicates to me at least a minority opinion, that likely should not be applied to the world in general... Slave actually lives in countries were people actually want to live so you might be comparing apples to oranges. Umm remember my ancestors left because of crazy King George and at that time the Brits sure liked using guns to control and enslave people....lol wow you must of ate a poorly prepared Wimpy burger meal and are feeling out of sorts.... If you could remove all guns from the world are you prepared to than remove all the sharp pointy sticks and or make it a felony to possess an unlicenced stick or rock....

slavemali -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 4:45:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul He is the one that is making the accusation repeatedly. Only in response to Bama's continued personal attacks on me. I didn't fire the first volley and I am not the one constantly bringing up irrelevant content. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And it doesn't matter what law you want to believe I broke to go to jail it is a lie. Just admit you screwed up and we can go on. I didn't say you broke the law - I said that I remember you mentioning it about yourself. Not the same thing Bama. And yet again we are derailing the thread because of personal insults that have no business here. wow freedondwarf1 got to ask why do you think you have so many problems with people??? Bama and me being a few of the untold thousands that you seem to have a hard on for? It is only someone opinion it is not designed normally to shake you out your tree...lol

ifmaz -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 9:28:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic And then what. Change human nature with drugs? Education? Removal of likely suspects brains? Or just their rights? I mean basic human rights, not just one.....yanno...the gun one Meanwhile....... I was thinking more along of the lines of appropriate anger management being taught in schools. I am concerned that you would seemingly advocate the removal of brains, forced drugs, treating people as sub-human, and curtailing rights (including, yanno, the gun one). You go right ahead with your concerns. Please tell me what part of my post speaks to me advocating anything i mentioned? You suggested those as preventative measures.

kdsub -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 9:58:03 AM)
tweak... the gun culture is a recent development in America... It has just become popular in the last 20 years or so when savvy Republican political consultants were looking for a wedge to sway the American public. They conspired to convince America that the Democratic party wanted to take away their guns... force gay marriage... and take away their religious rights. Of course none of this was true at the time but lets face it... any public of any nation is easy to manipulate with enough money and they did a good job. But it will backfire on them and it is beginning to happen now...as with Gay marriage and the soon to be enacted gun laws. The American people can be manipulated...for awhile... but we are not stupid and will eventually come to our senses. Butch

Kirata -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 10:02:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub the gun culture is a recent development in America... [8\|] K.

Kirata -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 10:19:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle One thing that emerges clearly from the various discussions of gun laws and gun violence here is that there are very different attitudes towards guns in the US than in comparable countries. It would be more relevant to note that there are very different attitudes toward guns within the United States, and I don't mean pro- versus anti-gun. There are two very different "gun cultures" in America. This one: [image]http://ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Wisconsin-4-H-Shooting-Sports.jpg[/image] And this one: [image]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEkyFP9WAAEzRFB.jpg[/image] quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle If the pro-gun lobby are as serious about reducing the levels of gun violence as they insist they are, then they must accept this responsibility, as indeed must all sectors of US life We already have laws against illegal possession and trafficking. But in many states the penalties for illegal possession are trivial, and too little effort is made to track down the traffickers and prosecute them. The problem lies where it always has, with our legislatures. You won't find any law-abiding gun owners objecting to stiffer penalties and more enforcement. Every time some new gun law is proposed, they're the first to suggest that we enforce the ones we already have. Wayne LaPierre: Not Enforcing Existing Gun Laws—That’s A Crime NRA Chief: Feds Should Enforce Existing Gun Laws; Out of 76,000 Denied Permits Only 44 Prosecuted Gun Control Facts: Existing Gun Laws Would Reduce Crime, But These Are Not Enforced K.

ifmaz -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 10:37:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata ... quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle If the pro-gun lobby are as serious about reducing the levels of gun violence as they insist they are, then they must accept this responsibility, as indeed must all sectors of US life We already have laws against illegal possession and trafficking. But in many states the penalties for illegal possession are trivial, and too little effort is made to track down the traffickers and prosecute them. The problem lies where it always has, with our legislatures. You won't find any law-abiding gun owners objecting to stiffer penalties and more enforcement. Every time some new gun law is proposed, they're the first to suggest that we enforce the ones we already have. K. And indeed the firearm industry has been serious about reducing firearm violence. The National Shooting Sports Foundation created a campaign to fix the National Instant Criminal Background Check system (NICS) in addition to numerous other campaigns to promote firearm safety and prevent 'straw-man' purchasers. I would disagree that the firearm industry needs to 'accept responsibility' for firearm-related violence; Sig Sauer has as much to do with gun violence as Henkel's has to do with stabbings or BMW with vehicular homicide.

lovmuffin -> RE: Oregon Shooter had fifteen firearms (10/10/2015 11:47:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle One thing that emerges clearly from the various discussions of gun laws and gun violence here is that there are very different attitudes towards guns in the US than in comparable countries. Guns occupy a position in both US popular culture and official history that is unique to the US. Guns were allegedly the key to 'winning the West', they enjoy brandnames such as 'The Peacemaker' and it's rare to see a US crime or political drama that fails to grant an important role to guns and the people who use them, either for good or bad. To the bafflement of foreigners, guns are regarded by many as tools that enhance freedom rather than tools that take lives, even though they are used to take many more lives in the US than other comparable countries. The tone of many of the pro-gun posters here suggests that guns occupy a more important role in their lives than just about anything else, up to and including sex. The empassioned intransigence (that reaches belligerence on occasion) of their posts suggests that one is dealing with something that is important in their self image, their identities. To describe some people's attitudes towards their precious guns as obsessive is an understatement. While one cannot prove a simple causal connection between levels of gun availability ownership, gun laws and gun violence, one can state that guns are used to injure and kill people in the US at a far higher rate than other comparable countries. It seems to me that at least part of the explanation for this disparity can be found in the centrality of guns in US culture. Those who passionately defend their Second Amendment rights are as complicit in this regard as any gunslinger - both groups place a grossly over inflated value on guns in their lives and their participation in US society/culture. If this perspective has merit, then it follows that a revision of the role of guns in US culture and society if significant progress is to be made towards reducing the levels of gun violence. The halving of the numbers of active hunters in recent years indicates that this revision is already happening regardless of whether it is acknowledged as such or not. The pro-gun lobby has a critical role in revising the role of guns in US life for the betterment of all. If the pro-gun lobby are as serious about reducing the levels of gun violence as they insist they are, then they must accept this responsibility, as indeed must all sectors of US life The only thing my tone and beligerance suggests is my opposition to gun control. As a young hunter growing up, I was allowed by age 14 to be out on my own or with friends in the field with my Shotgun that I had access to at anytime. When old enough to drive, durring fall bird season we took our shotguns to school (left concealed in the vehicle) so we could get to our hunting areas quickly and would have extra time before it got dark. During this time growing up I didnt give gun politics a second thought. Nor did I give any status or anything sexual to shooting, hunting or owning a shotgun. It was all perfectly normal. Fast forward to sometime after 1981 when Reagan and Jim Brady were shot and calls were coming in from political types for handgun control, I started paying attention. Shortly thereafter in 1989 some idiot (who had a record of felony gun violations and was on parole for said violations) shot up a school yard and killed 5 kids with a Chinese AK type semi auto converted to full auto. Then come the calls for bans on so called "assault weapons / rifles" whatever. The language of proposed legislation in effect would have banned semi automatics (an entire fucking class of firearms). At that point I got more involved, joined the NRA and became more beligerant. So your perspective on gun culture in the US, and especially where I'm concerned, starts out with some truth but goes off on a tangent of bullshit. See bolded parts. When the constitution was written, the founders believed the Second Amendment would guarantee the rest of our rights. Considering the corruption in politics and government, the Second Amendment is as legitament a concept in modern times as it was back in the day. Now back to your regularly scheduled bullshit. I'm off to fondle my .45[8D]

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