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American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/3/2015 2:59:46 PM   
MrRodgers


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Americans are just as productive as ever, they're just not getting paid for it and have had their hours reduced.

Item: A Bloomberg poll on the 2016 presidential horse race found that 72 percent of the people surveyed said the U.S. isn't as great as it once was. No big shock there. Polls have been picking up the America-in-decline lament for years.

Item: .....another poll, released last week, found that 27 percent of respondents thought "our own lagging work ethic" was the greater threat to American greatness, behind only "moral decay," chosen by 32 percent.

Item:.....poor work ethic was ranked as a larger peril than, say, the rise of Islamic State (26 percent), wealth concentration among the very few (25 percent) and competition with China (21 percent).

Anyone slightly familiar with data comparing global economies knows Americans work harder and more efficiently than workers in most other countries.

Hours worked per employee per year -- the U.S. isn't a standout among industrialized countries. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development in 2014 ranked the U.S. 23rd out of 38 countries. Mexico 1, Germany last, Greeks the most in Europe.

Total hours worked tells us very little. Some can do in a 40/wk what others take, say 60 hrs. So that age old productivity comes into play.

And on this score, the U.S. excels. The OECD ranked it third in productivity relative to gross domestic product, behind only tiny, homogenous and wealthy Luxembourg and oil-rich Norway. Germany, by comparison, is No. 8.

The OECD also tallies work-life balance, and on this score, Americans rank near the bottom, at 29 out of 36 countries. When compared with Europeans, Americans get less time off, family leave and sick days. Americans are working so hard that they sacrifice time with their families and don't take enough vacation, even when earned.

My point: So if the data dispute the "lagging work ethic" claim, why do people believe it's true? We can guess they weren't referring to their own lack of industriousness.

Presidential candidates' recent pronouncements about a declining American work ethic are promoting this false impression. True, Jeb Bush was derided when he said at a campaign stop in New Hampshire in July that "People need to work longer hours."

Trump's position paper on immigration says taxpayers have had to absorb billions in health care, housing, education and welfare costs, despite economic studies (even from conservative think tanks) showing immigrants are a net benefit to the economy.

Bush went down the same path a week ago when he said he would appeal to black voters with an aspirational message, not by promising "free stuff."

Then there was Rand Paul's August comment that immigrants are able to get jobs because "we've almost defeated the work ethic in our country. We're rotting from the inside." Did he mean that, because native-born Americans are no longer willing to take low-paying, menial jobs, including picking crops, processing meat and cleaning homes, the economy is forced to rely on immigrants ?

Romney's 47% comment, did it mean he was out of touch with the voters, not to mention economic realities ? "There's no question that hurt and did real damage," he said four months after the election.

Is it possible that "lagging work ethic" at least on the Republican side...is just another, more acceptable way of referring to Romney's 47 percent? ?

I say most politicians and yes, most on the right are in fact way out of touch with economic realities of the poor, poor working people and the 'American work ethic.'

HERE

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 10/3/2015 3:03:03 PM >
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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/3/2015 3:08:13 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Was there a point to all this waffle and provarication or are you just bored and letting off steam??

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/3/2015 4:25:42 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Was there a point to all this waffle and provarication or are you just bored and letting off steam??

From the OP: Is it possible that "lagging work ethic" at least on the Republican side...is just another, more acceptable way of referring to Romney's 47 percent? ?

I say most politicians and yes, most on the right are in fact way out of touch with economic realities of the poor, poor working people and the 'American work ethic.'

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/3/2015 5:37:51 PM   
MercTech


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Why work hard when the government is going to take away half and anything you save will be eaten up by inflation? The average person has to work until May or June just to cover taxes. 3% is a good return for a middle class savings program but the inflation rate has been over 5% per annum for decades.

On the average; U.S. workers have longer work weeks and less time off than the rest of the, so called, civilized nations. Germany does a 36 hour work week and 30 days of paid vacation a year. And if you actually take your two weeks of vacation; you may as well volunteer for the next layoff with many companies.

The "American Dream" has been replaced by a debt treadmill nightmare. We are no longer citizens but "human resources" to be exploited as much as possible.

< Message edited by MercTech -- 10/3/2015 5:43:13 PM >

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/3/2015 6:11:09 PM   
thompsonx


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Anyone slightly familiar with data comparing global economies knows Americans work harder and more efficiently than workers in most other countries.

Humor me and give me a cite to validate that opinion
 
 
 

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/3/2015 9:09:48 PM   
KenDckey


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I personally believe that we are producing, however, we are increasing the use of automation to accomplish that. With the reduction of hours for Obamacare, economy, etc, and the increase in benefits from the government rewarding us for not working, the declining work ethic makes sense to me. When the rich put in automation they save a bundle long term. I also think that unions are one major driver of this move to automation because they push for higher and higher wages without regard to other issues have reduced the workforce. The change in the skill levels of jobs also have an impact upon the workforce. Low skill jobs are increasingly being automated and thus eliminated. You get a one time opportunity to get 6 weeks of occupational training thru the government. I personally have been denied jobs because of being overly qualified. I have also been denied jobs because of being underqualified even tho I met or exceeded the requirements listed in the job description.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/3/2015 11:30:35 PM   
Termyn8or


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"Was there a point to all this waffle and provarication or are you just bored and letting off steam?? "

What prevarication ? That means lies. Is that your accusation ?

Anyway, on to the subject. There are many factors here, one is of course cheap foreign labor, and then we got some big biz guys want to destroy the middle class so they'll have a pool of low wage workers in the future. Then we have a government that stifles small business right out of existence.

But there are other factors not taken into consideration. While I think Keynes is an asshole, he did make some points on running an economy like a Ponzi scheme. But the bottom line is all these professional economists, who have by the way run most of the world into the fucking ground, fail to realize that it is not sustainable indefinitely. If you want life, you find a way to sustain it, indefinitely. What, school taughten economists know that your great grandkids will live in grass huts and be slaves, but you do not care because you want yours NOW ? Good for you, makes me hope there is a hell. but I know there isn't.

The other thing is we got to get out of this "life is precious" shit. We have to kill criminals, I would like to see half the people on the streets armed so if some thug or nutcase gets any ideas he is likely to wind up dead. Not in prison for murder and getting a sex change operation out of my tax money.

But poverty will drive more people to do crime, and that is why we need guns. Give me that drivel about "Is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family" and then "what if your family doesn't like bread, they like whiskey ?". Well that is the average morality in this country. I argue this shit all the time. We got alot of killings because we got alot of people who need to be killed. You can bemoan the prison population, but the fact is that most of them did something.

And sometimes it is just to make money to live. Dealing pot for example. So the fuck what, and now the move is on to make it legal. But then nobody who smokes it will be able to get most jobs. That is OK though, I got a skill :-) (kinda)

But the bottom line is that these jobs are never coming back. You bitch about the jobs gong to China, those jobs would be gone if China fell off into the sea. The main reason is that with automation, one Man can do the work of ten. Well what happens to the other nine ?

Mathematically, and I think they are carefully hiding this from math and economics students to prevent depression, it is NEVER coming back. Even Germany, where they make half of all the fuel injectors for cars in the world, they are bitching about having "McJobs". They went down to a four day work week decades ago, and that didn't do it. While they do enjoy a quite high wage level, they simply re not getting enough hours and have to room up two and three to an apartment just to eek out an existence.

We have to find a new way to do this. Everyone has to work, but probably alot less. We cannot create the demand for products, and as they try, the stupid fucks waste their capital, which is probably more important now than ever. I actually DO know what to tell them but they will not listen. And the fuck up the (_|_) might not even come to them, but to their kids. If you think that you prove you are smarter because you have more money, you prove yourself a fucking idiot. It costs money to be stupid, try doing it poor. I have been almost dirt poor in my life, you have to THINK to be able to LIVE.

Bottom line, it is all falling apart. What will people do for money when machines build damnear everything ? You will have one guy working at the Ford plant watching the machine, when it makes a funny noise he presses a button and calls the guy who knows what he is doing. He comes and fixes it and that is that and 10,000 cars get built. This is the way it is going.

You want to pay people for arts ? Well the people who have taken over the MPAA and the RIAA have seen to that, nobody wants to pay for their new shit, and it is shit. There is no art anymore. Anything less than 20 years old is trash IMO. And the royalty system is all fucked up so GOOD new artists are held back while those with an "in" are promoted to the nth degree. So much for that.

New inventions. Well I guess we should have taught our kids physics and math, mechanics and electronics if we wanted that. If we start today we might be able to fix that in about 25 years.

I did not take lightly re-de-lurking here. But I want some opinions on just how the fuck anyone thinks we are going to get better as a country, and in fact as a world. Got any bright ideas ?

Really.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 10/3/2015 11:40:46 PM >

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/4/2015 10:22:42 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

My point: So if the data dispute the "lagging work ethic" claim, why do people believe it's true?

Well, because you're conflating two different issues -- productivity does not necessarily rely on the work ethic of labor.

New procedures, better automation, tighter systems -- all these contribute to better productivity (which increased throughout the last recession) without increasing "working harder."

I myself work far less and get far more accomplished, for example, than 30 years ago, simply because I have tools like computers and the Internet that speed things along.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/4/2015 4:47:19 PM   
MercTech


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Gad, I can't find that cartoon from the 90s... but...

Once America was great. We made stuff.
Then we figured out we could design stuff and let other people make the stuff for us.
Then we found out it was cheaper to let the other people design the stuff and make it.
Now all we do is make websites for people that actually make stuff.

If you look at things from a good distance; the U.S. no longer makes much at all. The CEO of GM was caught on video talking about 7 out of 10 Chevys being made in China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

So may things that the U.S. pioneered are now owned by companies based elsewhere. There is no longer a U.S. company capable of building a nuclear power plant.

I think a lot of the reason that European and Japanese companies overtook the U.S. and flew past them in productivity was that the U.S. had no bombing during World War II. We gave interest free loans for industrial recovery in Japan and Europe and they retooled with state of the art 1950s-1960s tech wile the U.S. was still clinging to the the 1930s tech that already existed in factories.
Today, the manufacturing left in the U.S., still works to the ANSI standards that originated in the 1930s and ignores the ISO standards that the rest of the civilized world got together and adopted. It makes it hard to sell American Made anywhere but inside the country.
For example, a U.S. made hard hat is not acceptable for use at an industrial site in Canada because it lacks some of the safety features required by ISO standards (and CanOSH).

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/4/2015 8:39:22 PM   
Musicmystery


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In the most recent data, manufacturers contributed $2.09 trillion to the economy. This figure has steadily risen since 2009 when manufacturers contributed $1.73 trillion. The sector accounts for 12.0 percent of GDP.1 For every $1.00 spent in manufacturing, another $1.37 is added to the economy, the highest multiplier effect of any economic sector.2

Manufacturing supports an estimated 17.6 million jobs in the United States—about one in six private-sector jobs. More than 12 million Americans (or 9 percent of the workforce) are employed directly in manufacturing.3

In 2013, the average manufacturing worker in the United States earned $77,506 annually, including pay and benefits. The average worker in all industries earned $62,546.4

Manufacturers in the United States are the most productive in the world, far surpassing the worker productivity of any other major manufacturing economy, leading to higher wages and living standards.5

Manufacturers in the United States perform more than three-quarters of all private-sector R&D in the nation, driving more innovation than any other sector.6

Taken alone, manufacturing in the United States would be the ninth-largest economy in the world.7

- See more at: http://www.nam.org/Newsroom/Facts-About-Manufacturing/#sthash.Pc7f7Idp.dpuf

1 Bureau of Economic Analysis, Industry Economic Accounts (2014).

2 Bureau of Economic Analysis, Industry Input-Output Tables (2013).

3 Bureau of Labor Statistics (2014), with estimate of total employment supported by manufacturing calculated by NAM using data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis (2013, 2014).

4 Bureau of Economic Analysis, National Economic Accounts by Industry (2013).

5 NAM calculations based on data from the United Nations, Bureau of Labor Statistics and the International Labour Organization.

6 Bureau of Economic Analysis, National Economic Accounts by Industry (2013).

7 Bureau of Economic Analysis, Industry Economic Accounts (2014) and International Monetary Fund (2013).
- See more at: http://www.nam.org/Newsroom/Facts-About-Manufacturing/#sthash.Pc7f7Idp.dpuf

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 8:05:54 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Anyone slightly familiar with data comparing global economies knows Americans work harder and more efficiently than workers in most other countries.


they do? then why are your US corps still outsourcing more and more jobs??? and they arent just the lower wage manufacturing jobs anymore either.. they are climbing up the food chain now..

"Some US companies are using temporary visas to train foreign workers in the US and then ship them back overseas, according to a new investigation by The New York Times.

According to The Times, the companies — which include Toys R Us and New York Life Insurance — bring foreign workers into the US to train them on jobs held by those at home offices in the US.

Then, once the worker has learned how to do the American employee's job, the American employee is laid off and the foreign worker returns to his or her home country and starts working from there.

The investigation cites the story of a former Toys R Us employee who says that for four weeks this spring a young woman on a temporary visa from India sat with her as she performed her accounting job in the Toys R Us headquarters in Wayne, New Jersey.

"The woman ... studied and recorded the accountant's every keystroke, taking screen shots of her computer and detailed notes on how she issued payments for toys sold in the company's megastores," wrote Julia Preston, The New York Times' national immigration correspondent.

The Indian woman worked for the outsourcing company Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), which was hired by Toys R Us. The Times reports that the TCS employees shadowed the Toys R Us employees and created intricate manuals for how to perform the jobs of 67 different workers. They then returned to India and trained other TCS employees how to do those jobs. The Toys R Us employees were subsequently laid off."


http://www.businessinsider.com/us-companies-shipping-jobs-abroad-using-temporary-visas-2015-9



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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 11:55:43 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Anyone slightly familiar with data comparing global economies knows Americans work harder and more efficiently than workers in most other countries.


they do? then why are your US corps still outsourcing more and more jobs??? and they arent just the lower wage manufacturing jobs anymore either.. they are climbing up the food chain now..

"Some US companies are using temporary visas to train foreign workers in the US and then ship them back overseas, according to a new investigation by The New York Times.

According to The Times, the companies — which include Toys R Us and New York Life Insurance — bring foreign workers into the US to train them on jobs held by those at home offices in the US.

Then, once the worker has learned how to do the American employee's job, the American employee is laid off and the foreign worker returns to his or her home country and starts working from there.

The investigation cites the story of a former Toys R Us employee who says that for four weeks this spring a young woman on a temporary visa from India sat with her as she performed her accounting job in the Toys R Us headquarters in Wayne, New Jersey.

"The woman ... studied and recorded the accountant's every keystroke, taking screen shots of her computer and detailed notes on how she issued payments for toys sold in the company's megastores," wrote Julia Preston, The New York Times' national immigration correspondent.

The Indian woman worked for the outsourcing company Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), which was hired by Toys R Us. The Times reports that the TCS employees shadowed the Toys R Us employees and created intricate manuals for how to perform the jobs of 67 different workers. They then returned to India and trained other TCS employees how to do those jobs. The Toys R Us employees were subsequently laid off."


http://www.businessinsider.com/us-companies-shipping-jobs-abroad-using-temporary-visas-2015-9



Yes, they do and the reason jobs are still being shipped overseas is because while American workers can do much more work per hour, they cannot do several times more work while the new employees (freshly trained by their American counterparts as you describe) earn a small fraction in pay.

I.e.,...Americans at $12/hr. cannot outperform their $4/hr. competition in India. British (western) labor on a typical $49 London Fog spring jacket is $12. Chinese...$3. The Brits (westerners) would have to be 4 times faster...get it ?

The American and western corp. in general, wants their slaves back as [it] has only a fiduciary responsibility to their investors and thus remains the last authoritarian inst. in western democracies. The corp. is not required therefore any patriotic or moral responsibility to society at large and this despite the fact that the corp. enjoys the laws and protections created and now mostly paid for by that same civil society.

Globalization is a search for profits...nothing more. The so-called free trade [sic] agreement(s) sought via fast track (to eliminate cong. debate) are in fact not free trade agreements at all and seek only to codify advantages held by western corporations, while ensuring corp. freedom to employ oppressed labor, i.e. no labor rights at all, in that search for profits.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 12:56:44 PM   
joether


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What is 'work ethic'?

We throw this concept around like everyone uses the same definition. And I suspect none of us do. Therefore one person's use of 'work ethic' could be different in view of another.

Likewise we are not looking at 'work ethic' quite the same was as those from the 1920's, 1940's, 1970's, or even just ten years ago. One thing that has improved over time is technology. Not just in discovering how to use it, but ways it is used now. It once took miners months if not years to locate a good source of materials; now, it takes days and maybe weeks. We produce manufactured goods at a rate previously unheard of just fifteen years before, with less people! IBM has WATSON, a super computer that can handle information on an epic scale. The computers and machinery being created right now, could replace many jobs in as little as five years. From ditch digging to handling someone's medical needs.

Which begs the question: What is work Ethic in 2015? Because in a few short years, there will be less need for workers at all pay scales thanks to technology and machinery. Mankind developed tools to make life easier. Now, we are at that easier moment! Maybe instead of 40 hour work weeks, we handle 28? But get paid for 40 hours. It goes against conventional thinking on 'pay' and 'work'; but then conventional thinking is a dinosaur of thought processes from the last millennium. Maybe now, that work ethic be consider "seeing one's family", "vacationing", "learning a new subject in college", "create a masterpiece of art", "volunteering", etc.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 5:25:04 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

In the most recent data, manufacturers contributed $2.09 trillion to the economy. This figure has steadily risen since 2009 when manufacturers contributed $1.73 trillion. The sector accounts for 12.0 percent of GDP.1 For every $1.00 spent in manufacturing, another $1.37 is added to the economy, the highest multiplier effect of any economic sector.2

Manufacturing supports an estimated 17.6 million jobs in the United States—about one in six private-sector jobs. More than 12 million Americans (or 9 percent of the workforce) are employed directly in manufacturing.3

In 2013, the average manufacturing worker in the United States earned $77,506 annually, including pay and benefits. The average worker in all industries earned $62,546.4

Manufacturers in the United States are the most productive in the world, far surpassing the worker productivity of any other major manufacturing economy, leading to higher wages and living standards.5

Manufacturers in the United States perform more than three-quarters of all private-sector R&D in the nation, driving more innovation than any other sector.6

Taken alone, manufacturing in the United States would be the ninth-largest economy in the world.7

- See more at: http://www.nam.org/Newsroom/Facts-About-Manufacturing/#sthash.Pc7f7Idp.dpuf

1 Bureau of Economic Analysis, Industry Economic Accounts (2014).

2 Bureau of Economic Analysis, Industry Input-Output Tables (2013).

3 Bureau of Labor Statistics (2014), with estimate of total employment supported by manufacturing calculated by NAM using data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis (2013, 2014).

4 Bureau of Economic Analysis, National Economic Accounts by Industry (2013).

5 NAM calculations based on data from the United Nations, Bureau of Labor Statistics and the International Labour Organization.

6 Bureau of Economic Analysis, National Economic Accounts by Industry (2013).

7 Bureau of Economic Analysis, Industry Economic Accounts (2014) and International Monetary Fund (2013).
- See more at: http://www.nam.org/Newsroom/Facts-About-Manufacturing/#sthash.Pc7f7Idp.dpuf

While I have no problem with these numbers even though their source might be a bit self-serving, averages are not entirely but almost completely useless. That's as I am sure you know, because averages can be skewed upwards and by large amounts by extremely rare but also comparatively high wages at the top...usually management. Those too, that make up the bulk of middle class paying (of all manufacturing jobs) ...that aren't exported.

Helpers/production jobs total 420,520 and the median wage a much more meaningful assessment of $11.35/hr ($22,700/yr.)

Production and all other production workers total 217,500 and their median is $13.59/hr. ($27,180/yr)

These jobs have faired pretty poorly against inflation despite high productivity gains.

HERE

Here's a large part of why: The United States lost 41 percent of its manufacturing jobs between June 1979, when manufacturing
employment peaked and December 2009, when it reached its recent low point. The last decade (2000-2009) saw the most severe manufacturing job losses in U.S. history.

Manufacturing’s share of total employment fell from 13.2 percent in January 2000 to 8.9 percent in December 2009. During the last two years there have been some positive signs for manufacturing. The number of manufacturing jobs increased by 2.6 percent from December 2009 through September 2011,

HERE

On the subject of the OP. It is the incessant posturing and absurd discussion by certain political candidates that has the survey I referenced reflect a skewed public opinion toward a so-called deterioration of American 'work-ethic' That work ethic is as high and as productive as ever and...without the reward of a higher standard of living that has been pounded into the public discourse for 50-60 years. That's because there are no laws of man or nature that requires let alone assert that the harder and more productive workers are, the higher standard of living they will enjoy.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 5:35:17 PM   
thompsonx


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I also think that unions are one major driver of this move to automation because they push for higher and higher wages without regard to other issues have reduced the workforce.

Why do you feel that it is up to the employer to set the wage at which a man must work?

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 6:51:59 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


I also think that unions are one major driver of this move to automation because they push for higher and higher wages without regard to other issues have reduced the workforce.

Why do you feel that it is up to the employer to set the wage at which a man must work?

It isn't. In fact, it is the employers that do whatever they can to minimize labor costs. That includes lobbying for a reduction in labor cases brought before the EEOC, the NLRB and thanks to Reagan (a historical democrat and union leader) have enjoyed a political and legal evisceration of the labor movement.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 7:20:27 PM   
Musicmystery


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You're simply repeating, eventually, my point -- that since 2009, US manufacturing has been on the upswing.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/5/2015 11:21:47 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You're simply repeating, eventually, my point -- that since 2009, US manufacturing has been on the upswing.

Yes, except that the average of over $77,000/yr. (in your link) is misleading at best and any slight growth in jobs is up from what is a historical low. I think it was under Bush I that for the first time in economic history in America, more people worked for govt. than do in manufacturing and that has gotten worse since.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/6/2015 6:01:24 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Why work hard when the government is going to take away half and anything you save will be eaten up by inflation? The average person has to work until May or June just to cover taxes. 3% is a good return for a middle class savings program but the inflation rate has been over 5% per annum for decades.

On the average; U.S. workers have longer work weeks and less time off than the rest of the, so called, civilized nations. Germany does a 36 hour work week and 30 days of paid vacation a year. And if you actually take your two weeks of vacation; you may as well volunteer for the next layoff with many companies.

The "American Dream" has been replaced by a debt treadmill nightmare. We are no longer citizens but "human resources" to be exploited as much as possible.

Naw, the American Dream has been replaced by a lot of whining. And making up "facts." Case in point.

Inflation is under 3%. My savings returns from 8% to 13.9% over the past decade. I think I'm doing OK there.

Inflation hasn't been 5% in a long time -- one quarter in 2008, and some months in 1990 and early 1991. Then you have to go back to 1982.

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RE: American work ethic ? Lagging ? - 10/6/2015 10:21:03 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Anyone slightly familiar with data comparing global economies knows Americans work harder and more efficiently than workers in most other countries.


they do? then why are your US corps still outsourcing more and more jobs??? and they arent just the lower wage manufacturing jobs anymore either.. they are climbing up the food chain now..

"Some US companies are using temporary visas to train foreign workers in the US and then ship them back overseas, according to a new investigation by The New York Times.

According to The Times, the companies — which include Toys R Us and New York Life Insurance — bring foreign workers into the US to train them on jobs held by those at home offices in the US.

Then, once the worker has learned how to do the American employee's job, the American employee is laid off and the foreign worker returns to his or her home country and starts working from there.

The investigation cites the story of a former Toys R Us employee who says that for four weeks this spring a young woman on a temporary visa from India sat with her as she performed her accounting job in the Toys R Us headquarters in Wayne, New Jersey.

"The woman ... studied and recorded the accountant's every keystroke, taking screen shots of her computer and detailed notes on how she issued payments for toys sold in the company's megastores," wrote Julia Preston, The New York Times' national immigration correspondent.

The Indian woman worked for the outsourcing company Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), which was hired by Toys R Us. The Times reports that the TCS employees shadowed the Toys R Us employees and created intricate manuals for how to perform the jobs of 67 different workers. They then returned to India and trained other TCS employees how to do those jobs. The Toys R Us employees were subsequently laid off."


http://www.businessinsider.com/us-companies-shipping-jobs-abroad-using-temporary-visas-2015-9



Yes, they do and the reason jobs are still being shipped overseas is because while American workers can do much more work per hour, they cannot do several times more work while the new employees (freshly trained by their American counterparts as you describe) earn a small fraction in pay.

I.e.,...Americans at $12/hr. cannot outperform their $4/hr. competition in India. British (western) labor on a typical $49 London Fog spring jacket is $12. Chinese...$3. The Brits (westerners) would have to be 4 times faster...get it ?

The American and western corp. in general, wants their slaves back as [it] has only a fiduciary responsibility to their investors and thus remains the last authoritarian inst. in western democracies. The corp. is not required therefore any patriotic or moral responsibility to society at large and this despite the fact that the corp. enjoys the laws and protections created and now mostly paid for by that same civil society.

Globalization is a search for profits...nothing more. The so-called free trade [sic] agreement(s) sought via fast track (to eliminate cong. debate) are in fact not free trade agreements at all and seek only to codify advantages held by western corporations, while ensuring corp. freedom to employ oppressed labor, i.e. no labor rights at all, in that search for profits.

yabbut.. in the end it doesnt matter much/at all how good your work ethic is.. you can be outsourced.. even local service jobs we think cant be outsourced.. ffs, google is developing driverless vehicles, how long before that becomes the norm and we catch a driverless taxi cab? or buses that drive themselves? etc.. and Amazon is concocting a drone delivery system.. how long before courier delivery use drones? pizza delivery by drone? etc..

Just sayin'

about free trade deals.. the Pacific Trade Partnership thingie has now been signed by 12 countries.. the local paper here in an article this am says that is great for Houston (a fifth of all international trade thru Houston is with the countries involved) and that last year $31.5 billion in goods were exported to those countries and only $22.2 billion in goods imported from those countries.. According to the article it would end more than 18,000 tariffs that those countries have placed on US exports.. so with the tariffs ending, considerably more US shite can be exported.. (I personally feel free trade deals benefit the US more than any other country..)

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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