jlf1961
Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:
You went there okay, here are the numbers:
WW1 204,002
WW2 670,846
Now the number quoted by the article conveniently leaves out some very important points.
I didn't refer to the article and wasn't thinking of it in my comment, JLF. In fact I haven't so far read the article at all.
quote:
Gun related homicides in the US average about 8000 per year
So, 874,848 people were killed in both world wars, combined. Going on your average, it would have taken roughly 109 years for gun-related homicides to surpass the numbers of people killed in WW1 and WW2. Hmmm. Not too bad ... maybe. But does that figure for homicide include all gun-related deaths *other* than suicides?
Your essential point seems to be that comparing the figures in any way is a nonsense - it's comparing the incomparable. Maybe. But it seems to me that this also has the effect of wriggling out of the problem - because the moment you reject all comparisons, you reject any way of judging the scale of the numbers of gun deaths in the USA. That will work for certain types of pro-gunners in the USA - it helps put them back in their comfort zone (the USA is an exception, the USA's use of guns is exceptional, etc, etc) - but, of course, it's not going to work for most Europeans. Not that you care, as you've said - but it doesn't help the two sides understand each other.
No, that figure is homicides, the intentional taking of a human life by another during a criminal act.
Even if you add in the accidental deaths caused by negligent use of a firearm, you still will not come close to the number killed in both world wars.
My point, simply stated, that the number of Americans killed by other Americans using guns is far less than most European asshats want to believe, or would want the world to believe.
The number of gun related homicides in the US, including mass shootings at schools, drive by shootings by gangs pulling the spray and pray technique is not even close to the tens of thousands you people claim, thus making your point bullshit.
It is even further rendered bullshit when you consider that other countries with far stricter gun laws, including death for even possessing a firearm have problems far worse than the US, but, as always, lets point the finger at the United States, because they can legally own guns.
How about this number:
There were 310 million nonmilitary firearms in the United States as of 2009, according to federal figures. That is the figure for registered firearms and firearms in the possession of law enforcement agencies, since they are "non-military."
Gun ownership is down to 32% of American households, while the number of Americans who support the right to own guns is still roughly 52% of the population.
Now, when you add up all the privately owned legal firearms, compare that to the number of gun related homicides each year (since the reason this discussion came up is a shooting on a college campus, which is gun related crime) you have a very small percentage of legal guns being used in criminal acts.
The UK still has gun related homicides, granted the percentage is negligible compared to the US, but it still happens, and how freely are guns available there? The same is true for every country held up as a shining example of the elimination of gun related deaths.
It still happens.
And then all anyone is really talking about is ending private gun ownership. Every time I ask how you guys plan to take the millions of guns away from criminals, you have no answer.
And since all but 2% of gun related criminal acts use a legally purchased and owned firearm, start with that problem first. I worked in Law Enforcement, of the 300 weapons I confiscated during arrests, 2 were taken from the registered owners. The rest were either stolen or had no paper trail whatsoever as far as ownership goes. Now, strangely enough, there are the ghost guns.
A ghost gun is a weapon that is recorded as had been taken by law enforcement as a direct result of a criminal arrest and prosecution and recorded as destroyed.
Law enforcement agencies hire contractors to destroy these weapons, but even though they were "destroyed" they miraculously appear on the streets.
Once more, the problem is not the firearms in the hands of legitimate, legal owners.
But, that is what you folks seem to believe. Legal gun owners are going out and killing people.
Now, get your facts straight, focus on the actual problem, and tell us, how to take the millions of guns out of the hands of criminals. Tell you what, I will pay for your airline ticket, first class, pay for you a five star hotel room in LA, and all you have to do is to go down to south central LA and ask all the street gangs to hand over their guns.
_____________________________
Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?
You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.
Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: America’s Gun Madness, as Seen From Europe - 
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