Alarming statistics (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 4:17:28 PM)

Reading some of the posts on these boards concerning guns, the American gun problem, insanity of gun owners etc, lead me to do some research.

Well, okay, there are a lot of gun "deaths" in the US, and to read what many are posting on these boards, it all boils down to one person killing another or multiple people.

The truth will surprise you:

In 2011, 32,352 died as a result of a gun being used. That is in the US and that is using data freely available from the CDC.

Now, that is a lot of people, wont deny it. But how about we take a few of those dead folks away for a couple of reasons.

Suicide by firearm accounted for 21,175 people.

Gee that is not people shooting other people, that is people shooting themselves, so for the sake of the "control guns controls the number of murders" and then posting the TOTAL number of gun related deaths as meaning all were victims of murder, we just cut that number down by approximately 2/3's.

How about accidents?
2594 due to accidents, most of which proved Darwin right.

So, we have a total of 8,583 deaths by gun that was the direct result of criminal action, and a very small percentage of them were the legal owners or legally acquired guns.

Now compare that to the over 2 million legally owned firearms in the US.

Okay, suicide by gun is not a firearm control problem.

Accidental deaths is more of a "people are too fucking stupid to own a paint ball gun let alone a real one," problem, but since we cannot test for "stupid" prior to selling someone a gun, leave it to natural selection, or perhaps a mandatory training program before one can purchase a gun, and maybe civil or criminal liability laws if someone is too stupid to put the damn things where they wont be accidentally discharged.

So that leaves us with murders.

Well, mass shootings always bring out the "ban the assault rifle" crowd, but hate to burst your bubble, of all those murders, only 323 involved rifles of any sort.

The rest not killed by guns:
1,700 who were stabbed
500 murdered with blunt objects
700 beaten to death by somebody with their bare hands

Now if you are going to go on about violent gun related crimes, get the numbers right. And then stop the bullshit about it would not happen if their were no guns.

As has been pointed out, the largest number killed at a school by an individual did not involve a gun, it was a bomb. Timothy McVeigh had a gun but did not use it in Oklahoma city.

source

Interesting note, as far as suicides go, the overwhelming majority involved legally acquired prescription medications. Strangely enough, I dont see liberals screaming about the over prescribing of narcotics in the US. Hell I sprained and ankle 2 months ago, and the freaking doc wanted to give my hydrocodone 7.5's for pain, 60 of the damn things.

Now, as I see it, we either stop the fanatic bullshit about guns and discuss the problems leading up to the gun crimes, or you people go fuck yourselves. I am tired of inflated numbers, statistics used that do not follow the CDC or DOJ guidelines on what is a mass shooting and the other gun related crimes, and above all, quit counting everything but what is actually pertinent to the discussion.

FYI, if as many were killed by guns in the US as claimed by some, the population of the United States would have dropped below a million a few years ago.

[image]local://upfiles/622970/A148C8DCB0BA4CB6B264EF7B60577741.jpg[/image]



kdsub -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 4:23:21 PM)

Did you check out this link



PeonForHer -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 4:37:54 PM)

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, JLF. Is it that guns aren't the problem - but that Americans just like killing each other and themselves - and this is made efficacious by the widespread availability of such an excellently handy instrument of killing, as indeed the gun is?



Wayward5oul -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 4:41:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Accidental deaths is more of a "people are too fucking stupid to own a paint ball gun let alone a real one," problem, but since we cannot test for "stupid" prior to selling someone a gun, leave it to natural selection, or perhaps a mandatory training program before one can purchase a gun, and maybe civil or criminal liability laws if someone is too stupid to put the damn things where they wont be accidentally discharged.


I don't know if it is still the case, but I know that Alabama used to require a hunter safety course before issuing a hunting license to minors that accompanied adults on hunts. I have often wondered why something like that was not a requirement for obtaining a gun permit-completion of a safety course.



joether -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 4:52:31 PM)

The problem is the right can not handle the conservation in a mature manner. I've tried several times to find middle ground. Tried to suggest we test all the myths and sayings scientifically. Even explained how that process might work. Pointed out that as mass shootings become more common place, more people will side with the 'ban 'em all' crowd rather than 'defend the 2nd'.

Its fanaticism plain and simple. They reject reason, knowledge, common sense, or even being human. I dare say they suffer from any of the following: paranoia, schizophrenia, 'anger management issues', loneliness, bad diets, and listening to rightwing media. The last one basically programming their viewpoints with a mixture of behavioral processes usually used on trauma victims (i.e. NLP). Over twenty years, these people are basically conditioned to think as other want them to think. Particularly on firearms.

The thought of not having a firearms is so painful of a sensation, that it overrides all other functions in the mind. Basically heroine addicts and alcoholics suffer much less in comparison. That they will fight to have a gun. Regardless of how insane or silly their argument becomes.

Twenty little children were butchered in Sandy Hook a few years back. Ten times that amount could be killed, and many of these people would fight against any sort of laws or restrictions. Most non-gun nut folks would be horrified of such a level of destruction and give politicians two choices: better firearm laws or the hangman's noose. They are not psychotic. Gun nuts do show emotion and plenty of it. But even that level of destruction. That the guns were easy to obtained. It doesn't take much practice to kill many with a gun (verse say, a katana). To them, they would take the opposite reaction to such destruction. Rather than realize things should change, they demand things are made....EASIER...for future attacks to take place.

That's irrational behavior!

We'll have another mass shooting in about 3-4 weeks from now if we are lucky. Nothing will change until something....monstrous....takes place. Something that pales Sandy Hook by comparison. Gun nut's minds will not be changed. Fortunately, the 'non gun nut' population outweighs them by a very large percentage. If we wanted the laws to be changed, they'll get changed. There are many things we could do to allow gun owners (the rational folks who are not gun nuts) to have the same access to firearms (more or less); while at the same time, drastically reducing firearms falling into the wrong hands. Could cut down many shootings in the nation.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 5:05:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Accidental deaths is more of a "people are too fucking stupid to own a paint ball gun let alone a real one," problem, but since we cannot test for "stupid" prior to selling someone a gun, leave it to natural selection, or perhaps a mandatory training program before one can purchase a gun, and maybe civil or criminal liability laws if someone is too stupid to put the damn things where they wont be accidentally discharged.


I don't know if it is still the case, but I know that Alabama used to require a hunter safety course before issuing a hunting license to minors that accompanied adults on hunts. I have often wondered why something like that was not a requirement for obtaining a gun permit-completion of a safety course.


For a concealed carry permit, a course is required here in TN.
I can't speak for other states but I suspect it is similar.



jlf1961 -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 5:35:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, JLF. Is it that guns aren't the problem - but that Americans just like killing each other and themselves - and this is made efficacious by the widespread availability of such an excellently handy instrument of killing, as indeed the gun is?


Hmm, lets see if this answers your question:

Mexico actually has extremely strict gun control laws. So strict, in fact, that there's only one store in the entire country where citizens can legally purchase a gun.

Yup, Mexico has no gun problem. The news reports of multiple mass shootings in a country where you can only buy a gun in one store is purely fiction made up to make it look like elimination of legal gun purchases will solve the problem.

And yes, I will admit many guns in Mexico were smuggled in from the US, however, that would not explain the select fire automatic weapons that are making a big mark on the drug wars, and the shooting of innocent civilians.

My point is that the bullshit spouted by the anti gun lobby is just that, bullshit. 32000 people were not shot by other people, were not the victims of mass shootings in one year, or the victims of spree killings.

Of the total number, 8000 were the direct result of criminal use of a fire arm. And of that, a very small percentage was by the owner of a legally purchased weapon.

If you cant get the point from that, might I suggest a reading comprehension course, I am sure the adult education department of your local school district offers one.

All anyone talks about is dealing with people who would like to legally purchase or own a fire arm. Alright you geniuses, tell me how you are going to take the god knows how many million illegal guns from the criminals in this country? Come on, short of the police getting a shoot to kill order on all criminals carrying a gun, you are not going to get anything accomplished.

Gun buy backs? Right, the cops buy guns from street thugs who turn around and use that money to buy better guns.

Having mandatory life sentences for those convicted of committing a crime using a gun gets liberals screaming about "unfair to minorities" or "cruel and unusual" etc.

I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, I carry daily. I am very proficient at its use, and spend two to three days on the range practicing. My guns are stored in biometric lock boxes and the rifles are store in a nice safe that took five guys to bring it in. The one, only one loaded weapon in the house is on my person except when I am in the shower or sleeping, and then it is in a place I can get to it and no one under 5'8" can get to it without a ladder.

I have a three year old grandson in the house that will not touch a pair of non firing, replica dueling pistols without first asking. He asks me to put his "jake and the neverland pirates" plastic pistol in my gun safe so no one will get hurt with it.


And the anti gun morons tell me that I should not have the right to own a firearm?

Fuck you people. You cant even use real numbers to prove your point, and you cant come up with a way to take the guns from criminals.

Liberals are nothing more than a segment of humanity who have lofty Utopian ideas not based in reality and with no way to achieve them than to spend a shit ton of money best used elsewhere to get zero progress.

You want reality, here is reality. People are dieing from guns in countries where you cant even buy the damn things, possession is an almost certain death sentence and you want to try the same thing here.

It works in Japan, but look at the culture, how old is it? Geez those people were more civilized in their worst period of history than any US city in this modern age of enlightenment.

Private ownership of Firearms built this country, expanded this country, eliminated the competition, and have become such a major part of the culture you might as well ask people to give up anything else.

So, if you want to live somewhere where gun violence is almost zero, move to Japan.



BamaD -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 5:52:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The problem is the right can not handle the conservation in a mature manner. I've tried several times to find middle ground. Tried to suggest we test all the myths and sayings scientifically. Even explained how that process might work. Pointed out that as mass shootings become more common place, more people will side with the 'ban 'em all' crowd rather than 'defend the 2nd'.

Its fanaticism plain and simple. They reject reason, knowledge, common sense, or even being human. I dare say they suffer from any of the following: paranoia, schizophrenia, 'anger management issues', loneliness, bad diets, and listening to rightwing media. The last one basically programming their viewpoints with a mixture of behavioral processes usually used on trauma victims (i.e. NLP). Over twenty years, these people are basically conditioned to think as other want them to think. Particularly on firearms.

The thought of not having a firearms is so painful of a sensation, that it overrides all other functions in the mind. Basically heroine addicts and alcoholics suffer much less in comparison. That they will fight to have a gun. Regardless of how insane or silly their argument becomes.

Twenty little children were butchered in Sandy Hook a few years back. Ten times that amount could be killed, and many of these people would fight against any sort of laws or restrictions. Most non-gun nut folks would be horrified of such a level of destruction and give politicians two choices: better firearm laws or the hangman's noose. They are not psychotic. Gun nuts do show emotion and plenty of it. But even that level of destruction. That the guns were easy to obtained. It doesn't take much practice to kill many with a gun (verse say, a katana). To them, they would take the opposite reaction to such destruction. Rather than realize things should change, they demand things are made....EASIER...for future attacks to take place.

That's irrational behavior!

We'll have another mass shooting in about 3-4 weeks from now if we are lucky. Nothing will change until something....monstrous....takes place. Something that pales Sandy Hook by comparison. Gun nut's minds will not be changed. Fortunately, the 'non gun nut' population outweighs them by a very large percentage. If we wanted the laws to be changed, they'll get changed. There are many things we could do to allow gun owners (the rational folks who are not gun nuts) to have the same access to firearms (more or less); while at the same time, drastically reducing firearms falling into the wrong hands. Could cut down many shootings in the nation.

This post proves that nothing he said sank in.



BamaD -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 6:48:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The problem is the right can not handle the conservation in a mature manner. I've tried several times to find middle ground. Tried to suggest we test all the myths and sayings scientifically. Even explained how that process might work. Pointed out that as mass shootings become more common place, more people will side with the 'ban 'em all' crowd rather than 'defend the 2nd'.

Its fanaticism plain and simple. They reject reason, knowledge, common sense, or even being human. I dare say they suffer from any of the following: paranoia, schizophrenia, 'anger management issues', loneliness, bad diets, and listening to rightwing media. The last one basically programming their viewpoints with a mixture of behavioral processes usually used on trauma victims (i.e. NLP). Over twenty years, these people are basically conditioned to think as other want them to think. Particularly on firearms.

The thought of not having a firearms is so painful of a sensation, that it overrides all other functions in the mind. Basically heroine addicts and alcoholics suffer much less in comparison. That they will fight to have a gun. Regardless of how insane or silly their argument becomes.

Twenty little children were butchered in Sandy Hook a few years back. Ten times that amount could be killed, and many of these people would fight against any sort of laws or restrictions. Most non-gun nut folks would be horrified of such a level of destruction and give politicians two choices: better firearm laws or the hangman's noose. They are not psychotic. Gun nuts do show emotion and plenty of it. But even that level of destruction. That the guns were easy to obtained. It doesn't take much practice to kill many with a gun (verse say, a katana). To them, they would take the opposite reaction to such destruction. Rather than realize things should change, they demand things are made....EASIER...for future attacks to take place.

That's irrational behavior!

We'll have another mass shooting in about 3-4 weeks from now if we are lucky. Nothing will change until something....monstrous....takes place. Something that pales Sandy Hook by comparison. Gun nut's minds will not be changed. Fortunately, the 'non gun nut' population outweighs them by a very large percentage. If we wanted the laws to be changed, they'll get changed. There are many things we could do to allow gun owners (the rational folks who are not gun nuts) to have the same access to firearms (more or less); while at the same time, drastically reducing firearms falling into the wrong hands. Could cut down many shootings in the nation.

Your position begins with there is no right to bear arms.
To be, in your view, mature about it we have to agree with that point.
You throw away any chance at a "mature" discussion the moment you make that demand.



ifmaz -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 7:42:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The problem is the right can not handle the conservation in a mature manner. I've tried several times to find middle ground. Tried to suggest we test all the myths and sayings scientifically. Even explained how that process might work. Pointed out that as mass shootings become more common place, more people will side with the 'ban 'em all' crowd rather than 'defend the 2nd'.

Its fanaticism plain and simple. They reject reason, knowledge, common sense, or even being human. I dare say they suffer from any of the following: paranoia, schizophrenia, 'anger management issues', loneliness, bad diets, and listening to rightwing media. The last one basically programming their viewpoints with a mixture of behavioral processes usually used on trauma victims (i.e. NLP). Over twenty years, these people are basically conditioned to think as other want them to think. Particularly on firearms.

The thought of not having a firearms is so painful of a sensation, that it overrides all other functions in the mind. Basically heroine addicts and alcoholics suffer much less in comparison. That they will fight to have a gun. Regardless of how insane or silly their argument becomes.

Twenty little children were butchered in Sandy Hook a few years back. Ten times that amount could be killed, and many of these people would fight against any sort of laws or restrictions. Most non-gun nut folks would be horrified of such a level of destruction and give politicians two choices: better firearm laws or the hangman's noose. They are not psychotic. Gun nuts do show emotion and plenty of it. But even that level of destruction. That the guns were easy to obtained. It doesn't take much practice to kill many with a gun (verse say, a katana). To them, they would take the opposite reaction to such destruction. Rather than realize things should change, they demand things are made....EASIER...for future attacks to take place.

That's irrational behavior!

We'll have another mass shooting in about 3-4 weeks from now if we are lucky. Nothing will change until something....monstrous....takes place. Something that pales Sandy Hook by comparison. Gun nut's minds will not be changed. Fortunately, the 'non gun nut' population outweighs them by a very large percentage. If we wanted the laws to be changed, they'll get changed. There are many things we could do to allow gun owners (the rational folks who are not gun nuts) to have the same access to firearms (more or less); while at the same time, drastically reducing firearms falling into the wrong hands. Could cut down many shootings in the nation.


Until the conversation can include both sides, what you are proposing is more of a lecture.




Musicmystery -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 8:33:54 PM)

Saw a meme last week:

Ban Abortions!
Ban Gay Marriage!
Ban Immigration!
...but banning guns won't work, because people will find a way.

Now, no one's asking to ban guns, simply pursue logical regulation common in civilized countries.
But the meme does highlight (if only by parody) the myopia of the circle-the-wagons-gun-defense paranoia.



Kirata -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 8:57:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, JLF. Is it that guns aren't the problem - but that Americans just like killing each other and themselves - and this is made efficacious by the widespread availability of such an excellently handy instrument of killing, as indeed the gun is?

I don't think you really have a grip on the situation here in the United States. It simply isn't the case that Americans in general are killing each other at these rates. Our country harbors some exceedingly violent and dysfunctional subcultures. While school shootings garner a lot of press, there are many more children and youth killed in the course of ordinary everyday gun crime.

Just to throw out some numbers, homicide offenders in Chicago are 69.6% black and 16.7% Hispanic. The percentages wander a bit through the year, but not far. In New York City, homicide offenders for the period from 2003-2011 inclusive were 61% black and 29% Hispanic. Using 2010 Census data (because later numbers are estimates) and 2010 FBI single-victim/single-offender data, the 2010 homicide offending rate for whites was 1.3/100k nationally, while for blacks it was 7.6/100k (Hispanics are not disaggregated in the data).

There are millions of law-abiding blacks and Hispanics in America, of course, but for whatever reason these violent gang-ridden subcultures fester mostly within our black and Hispanic communities, needless to say to the benefit of neither. I have suggested, three times in recent weeks, that if we want to do something about gun violence in the United States we need stiffer penalties for the illegal possession of a firearm, and more money invested in tracking these illegal weapons back to the traffickers. I pointed out that New York, for example, which is a long way from being gun-friendly, treats the illegal possession of a firearm (not otherwise involved in a crime) as a misdemeanor!

All to the resounding support of almost nobody except gun owners. Instead, the anti-gun crowd has proposed, among other things, making guns more expensive so fewer people can afford them, and even requiring regular mental health testing. Is it any wonder gun owners get the feeling that the anti-gun crowd is less interested in actually doing something about the mayhem than they are in pushing for laws that will have little effect on anybody except law-abiding gun owners, because they're the only ones who will obey them?

References:
http://heyjackass.com/
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0019.pdf
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl06.xls

K.



cloudboy -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 9:02:46 PM)


Pretty much we all know this. Guns are fucking deadly, killing about 30K people a year.



BamaD -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 9:04:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Pretty much we all know this. Guns are fucking deadly, killing about 30K people a year.

You didn't understand his opening post at all did you?



jlf1961 -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 9:10:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Saw a meme last week:

Ban Abortions!
Ban Gay Marriage!
Ban Immigration!
...but banning guns won't work, because people will find a way.

Now, no one's asking to ban guns, simply pursue logical regulation common in civilized countries.
But the meme does highlight (if only by parody) the myopia of the circle-the-wagons-gun-defense paranoia.



Do you even read what some of the anti gun people post in these pages?

Few suggest a look at the existing laws to fix them, most point out that if guns were impossible to get ahold of, mass shootings wont happen.

The majority post statistics that not only include criminal acts, but suicides and accidents, then inflate the number by however many points the source came up with.

Then of course you have the ones that make it clear that from their point of view all gun owners are responsible for the whatever happened, that a specific weapon or type of weapon is the problem, so "ban" or "restriction" is the only logical answer.

First of all, the "restriction" aspect has been covered by existing laws, the problem comes into focus when you look at enforcement, or even getting the information collected to prevent the purchase in the first place.

All of the flags under the "restriction of purchase" regulations should pop up with the current back ground checks required. This means that the NCIS as well as two other data bases should have the information readily available.

The operative word here is "should."

Here is why they dont work. The NCIS system is underfunded, poorly maintained, and the fact that there is no funding available to fix the problems are a direct result in the fact that funds have been budgeted, but never fully allocated.

You want the problems fixed, the solution is easy. Get people elected that will fix the current problems and not create a shit ton more by writing legislation that further complicate the fucking situation.

Stop talking to the so called experts and talk to the people that have to actually make the current laws work and ask them what the problems are.

As I said before, you are looking at a government body that takes a simple little problem that barely requires a page to write a solution and then complicates to the point of needing a thousand pages of bullshit that not even the people who wrote it understand.



ifmaz -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 9:18:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Pretty much we all know this. Guns are fucking deadly, killing about 30K people a year.


According to the FBI there were 15.6 million NICS queries for 2015 (PDF link) -- 1,529,057 checks for June alone, and that's the smallest number for this year. If firearms are fucking deadly, killing 30k people each year, surely there would be far more firearm-related deaths. Even if we assume that half of the NICS queries result in a decline, there is still an enormous difference between the number of gun deaths and the number of purchased firearms in a 'slow' month like June 2015. How do you account for this discrepancy?

(if you are unaware, NICS is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System that is used to determine if a person is legally allowed to own a firearm. One fills out the ATF-4473 form (PDF link) and then waits for NICS to approve or decline the transaction.)



BamaD -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 9:43:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Saw a meme last week:

Ban Abortions!
Ban Gay Marriage!
Ban Immigration!
...but banning guns won't work, because people will find a way.

Now, no one's asking to ban guns, simply pursue logical regulation common in civilized countries.
But the meme does highlight (if only by parody) the myopia of the circle-the-wagons-gun-defense paranoia.



Do you even read what some of the anti gun people post in these pages?

Few suggest a look at the existing laws to fix them, most point out that if guns were impossible to get ahold of, mass shootings wont happen.

The majority post statistics that not only include criminal acts, but suicides and accidents, then inflate the number by however many points the source came up with.

Then of course you have the ones that make it clear that from their point of view all gun owners are responsible for the whatever happened, that a specific weapon or type of weapon is the problem, so "ban" or "restriction" is the only logical answer.

First of all, the "restriction" aspect has been covered by existing laws, the problem comes into focus when you look at enforcement, or even getting the information collected to prevent the purchase in the first place.

All of the flags under the "restriction of purchase" regulations should pop up with the current back ground checks required. This means that the NCIS as well as two other data bases should have the information readily available.

The operative word here is "should."

Here is why they dont work. The NCIS system is underfunded, poorly maintained, and the fact that there is no funding available to fix the problems are a direct result in the fact that funds have been budgeted, but never fully allocated.

You want the problems fixed, the solution is easy. Get people elected that will fix the current problems and not create a shit ton more by writing legislation that further complicate the fucking situation.

Stop talking to the so called experts and talk to the people that have to actually make the current laws work and ask them what the problems are.

As I said before, you are looking at a government body that takes a simple little problem that barely requires a page to write a solution and then complicates to the point of needing a thousand pages of bullshit that not even the people who wrote it understand.

Burt in Tremors 4 (I know a really bad movie) when talking to government people
"do what you do best, take something simple and make it complicated"
You are correct we have people who say they don't want to ban guns, then tell us how great the laws are in Australia. They want taxes to jack the basic price of a gun up to around 4 grand and tell us that that wont keep honest people from being able to aford them. Plus they want us to spent a grand or so on mental health evanluations every year under the quise of sensible gun laws. Then they pretend that there is not right to bear arms, just a privilage for militiamen. But no they don't want to ban anything.



jlf1961 -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 9:56:01 PM)

Bama, all the tremors movies were bad movies, that is the great thing about them.

And it was Tremors 3, actually. Tremors 4 was set back in the old west when Burt's great grandfather dealt with the damn things the first time (he left Burt a lot of silver, but not a journal telling him of the encounter, if he had, Burt would have built his house better and not had to blow the damn thing up in Tremors 3)



Kirata -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/9/2015 10:49:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

We'll have another mass shooting in about 3-4 weeks from now if we are lucky.

Beyond fucking words...

K.




MrRodgers -> RE: Alarming statistics (10/10/2015 1:52:53 AM)

As I have written, regardless of the numbers while NCIS applications to tend to support my theory.

In America going back over 200 years to what was predominantly a hunting based society, most people and that is most people...a large majority, were expected to own a gun, mostly for hunting, then for sport.

We have created therefore...a gun culture and it wouldn't be a leap of logic to suggest that far too many deaths using a gun no matter how and by whom, is almost directly as a result of this gun culture.

As for other countries and their laws vs gun deaths. They can come here and get them fairly easily and illegal guns soon become no different than...illegal drugs against which unlike guns, we have a multi-billion $ law based, prevention regime.



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